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Screen reader and EULA
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Grauth Thorner
Vicious Trading Company
#21 - 2014-12-14 15:04:31 UTC
Sounds a lot like client extending to me as well so I'd say no. It would mainly depend on how you gather the information. If you gather it through logs written on your pc by the EVE client, or other (publicly/local) available data, you might get a yes out of it but since you want to monitor the screen, I have my doubts.

As for EVEMon, afaik this also works when the EVE client is not running (I have no experience with this program), which means it gets it's data in a way that CCP enabled (probably the character API). I know that the visuals on-screen are also provided by CCP, but using this is, to me at least, a whole other way for gathering information compared to gathering it through logs/API's.

I'd say figure out what the 'best way' of gathering the needed information is, in a way that gives you the most chance of approval. Perhaps it is possible to get the information through another way than through scanning the screen. Once you have done this, open a petition where you explain the way you gather the data and what the app does, then cross your fingers.

Kind regards,
Grauth Thorner

View real-time damage statistics in-game

>EVE Live DPS Graph application forum thread

>iciclesoft.com
suid0
Pandemic Horde Inc.
Pandemic Horde
#22 - 2014-12-14 18:05:18 UTC  |  Edited by: suid0
IgnoreTheDroid wrote:
suid0 wrote:

incorrect, if you are not looking at that screen or local your eye will not alert you that someone has entered local, your bot would.

You should probably petition CCP to see if this is ok. Or better yet, given how easy it would be for CCP to implement this across the board (if they didn't already agree it would be bad for the game) post the idea in the Features & Ideas forum.


No. It is not automating any action IN GAME. It does not warp you, it does not move you, it does not hit any keys, and it does not move the mouse. All it does is alert you which as far as I can tell from the EULA is not against it. What about out of game utilities like Garpa? That isn't information provided by CCP that is being used. Just because it isn't provided by CCP doesn't mean it is against the EULA. I am not sure why you keep bringing that up.

I don't foresee CCP every implementing this. I am not ignoring the negative effects it would have on game play. They just have zero bearing on what is considered EULA acceptable and not. Especially if it does not involve any form of cheating or automation of movement/flight/defenses/etc.

Can I petition CCP with a hypothetical? It is maybe an hour of basic coding away from being real but I won't build it fully until I am certain it won't get people banned. I can fully provide the source for the "image search".


I don't really care if you aren't automating in game actions.

You appear to be under the illusion that in order to be classed as a 'bot' it must automate or perform some sort of action within the game itself.

This is obviously where our opinion differs. Its still an external automated piece of software that is intended to monitor the client and notify the user when a change of state happens as per some set of rules. imo that still counts as a bot.

That aside, this isn't something new, it existed in the past and was frowned upon by CCP.
It just used a different mechanic to gather its information at the time. CCP made appropriate changes to break it's functionality and ensure it couldn't be patched.


https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=2432034

https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=2629404

the entire enemy support fleet is dead except for one interdictor a titan could easily finish off with drones  - Commander Ted
IgnoreTheDroid
Pator Tech School
Minmatar Republic
#23 - 2014-12-14 20:34:13 UTC
suid0 wrote:
IgnoreTheDroid wrote:
suid0 wrote:

incorrect, if you are not looking at that screen or local your eye will not alert you that someone has entered local, your bot would.

You should probably petition CCP to see if this is ok. Or better yet, given how easy it would be for CCP to implement this across the board (if they didn't already agree it would be bad for the game) post the idea in the Features & Ideas forum.


No. It is not automating any action IN GAME. It does not warp you, it does not move you, it does not hit any keys, and it does not move the mouse. All it does is alert you which as far as I can tell from the EULA is not against it. What about out of game utilities like Garpa? That isn't information provided by CCP that is being used. Just because it isn't provided by CCP doesn't mean it is against the EULA. I am not sure why you keep bringing that up.

I don't foresee CCP every implementing this. I am not ignoring the negative effects it would have on game play. They just have zero bearing on what is considered EULA acceptable and not. Especially if it does not involve any form of cheating or automation of movement/flight/defenses/etc.

Can I petition CCP with a hypothetical? It is maybe an hour of basic coding away from being real but I won't build it fully until I am certain it won't get people banned. I can fully provide the source for the "image search".


I don't really care if you aren't automating in game actions.

You appear to be under the illusion that in order to be classed as a 'bot' it must automate or perform some sort of action within the game itself.

This is obviously where our opinion differs. Its still an external automated piece of software that is intended to monitor the client and notify the user when a change of state happens as per some set of rules. imo that still counts as a bot.

That aside, this isn't something new, it existed in the past and was frowned upon by CCP.
It just used a different mechanic to gather its information at the time. CCP made appropriate changes to break it's functionality and ensure it couldn't be patched.


https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=2432034

https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=2629404


Once again. SO WHAT IF IT IS A BOT? Explain to me why you feel that actually matters? CCP allows many bots.


The log server change says nothing about it being outside the limits of the EULA. They just didn't like the idea of it and nothing more. Your links all say just that. They broke the functionality but did not ban because of it.
suid0
Pandemic Horde Inc.
Pandemic Horde
#24 - 2014-12-14 21:21:25 UTC
IgnoreTheDroid wrote:


Once again. SO WHAT IF IT IS A BOT? Explain to me why you feel that actually matters? CCP allows many bots.


The log server change says nothing about it being outside the limits of the EULA. They just didn't like the idea of it and nothing more. Your links all say just that. They broke the functionality but did not ban because of it.


yeah? what bots do CCP allow? (just curious)

anyway, don't care if it's a bot or not, you just seem to be getting all worked up over the reference (not sure why)

So because CCP didn't like what the data was being used for, and removed that data so it couldn't be done anymore, finding another way to do that same thing is okay yeah? wow lol gg

the entire enemy support fleet is dead except for one interdictor a titan could easily finish off with drones  - Commander Ted
Zosius
The Nordic Associates
Insidious.
#25 - 2014-12-14 22:25:13 UTC
Isint pirates little helper doing similar stuff? Gives stats of players in local. I fail to see how ccp can detect your software if it reads screen and does actions on your computer. Though i think you would still need auto interact if you wanted it usable with populated local?

http://cloakybastard.blogspot.com
suid0
Pandemic Horde Inc.
Pandemic Horde
#26 - 2014-12-14 22:41:58 UTC
Zosius wrote:
Isint pirates little helper doing similar stuff? Gives stats of players in local. I fail to see how ccp can detect your software if it reads screen and does actions on your computer. Though i think you would still need auto interact if you wanted it usable with populated local?


From his description is kind of does, however you have to select-all & copy to get the list of pilots into the clipboard.

the entire enemy support fleet is dead except for one interdictor a titan could easily finish off with drones  - Commander Ted
Grauth Thorner
Vicious Trading Company
#27 - 2014-12-14 23:16:20 UTC
suid0 wrote:
Zosius wrote:
Isint pirates little helper doing similar stuff? Gives stats of players in local. I fail to see how ccp can detect your software if it reads screen and does actions on your computer. Though i think you would still need auto interact if you wanted it usable with populated local?


From his description is kind of does, however you have to select-all & copy to get the list of pilots into the clipboard.

As far as I understood it's not a matter of selecting all and copying it to the clipboard, instead he wants the software to make a screenshot, scan that for certain tags in front of a pilot's name and make a sound based on its findings. This would have some troubles when the list is too big for everyone in local to be on-screen, and possibly even with different kinds of tags people use but that's a whole different topic.

View real-time damage statistics in-game

>EVE Live DPS Graph application forum thread

>iciclesoft.com
suid0
Pandemic Horde Inc.
Pandemic Horde
#28 - 2014-12-15 08:57:43 UTC
Grauth Thorner wrote:
suid0 wrote:
Zosius wrote:
Isint pirates little helper doing similar stuff? Gives stats of players in local. I fail to see how ccp can detect your software if it reads screen and does actions on your computer. Though i think you would still need auto interact if you wanted it usable with populated local?


From his description is kind of does, however you have to select-all & copy to get the list of pilots into the clipboard.

As far as I understood it's not a matter of selecting all and copying it to the clipboard, instead he wants the software to make a screenshot, scan that for certain tags in front of a pilot's name and make a sound based on its findings. This would have some troubles when the list is too big for everyone in local to be on-screen, and possibly even with different kinds of tags people use but that's a whole different topic.


Sorry, I thought by quoting it'd be clear that reply was referring to how eve pirate works.

the entire enemy support fleet is dead except for one interdictor a titan could easily finish off with drones  - Commander Ted
IgnoreTheDroid
Pator Tech School
Minmatar Republic
#29 - 2014-12-15 15:08:39 UTC
suid0 wrote:
IgnoreTheDroid wrote:


Once again. SO WHAT IF IT IS A BOT? Explain to me why you feel that actually matters? CCP allows many bots.


The log server change says nothing about it being outside the limits of the EULA. They just didn't like the idea of it and nothing more. Your links all say just that. They broke the functionality but did not ban because of it.


yeah? what bots do CCP allow? (just curious)

anyway, don't care if it's a bot or not, you just seem to be getting all worked up over the reference (not sure why)

So because CCP didn't like what the data was being used for, and removed that data so it couldn't be done anymore, finding another way to do that same thing is okay yeah? wow lol gg



I already went over this with you. Going by the definition of a bot then evemon, api checks for auths, evehq, evernus, pirates little helper, etc are bots. They use automation of tasks to do something and therefore are bots at even the most basic level. Scanning logs or capturing your clipboard is still automated and therefore a bot. Unless you decided to switch your definition to what is more commonly used for games and that would be an application that automates in-game actions which my application would not be.


Grauth Thorner wrote:
suid0 wrote:
Zosius wrote:
Isint pirates little helper doing similar stuff? Gives stats of players in local. I fail to see how ccp can detect your software if it reads screen and does actions on your computer. Though i think you would still need auto interact if you wanted it usable with populated local?


From his description is kind of does, however you have to select-all & copy to get the list of pilots into the clipboard.

As far as I understood it's not a matter of selecting all and copying it to the clipboard, instead he wants the software to make a screenshot, scan that for certain tags in front of a pilot's name and make a sound based on its findings. This would have some troubles when the list is too big for everyone in local to be on-screen, and possibly even with different kinds of tags people use but that's a whole different topic.


Essentially that is correct. It will not work with a local that requires you to scroll since I can't automate anything ingame which that would require.
suid0
Pandemic Horde Inc.
Pandemic Horde
#30 - 2014-12-15 16:21:02 UTC
IgnoreTheDroid wrote:


I already went over this with you. Going by the definition of a bot then evemon, api checks for auths, evehq, evernus, pirates little helper, etc are bots. They use automation of tasks to do something and therefore are bots at even the most basic level. Scanning logs or capturing your clipboard is still automated and therefore a bot. Unless you decided to switch your definition to what is more commonly used for games and that would be an application that automates in-game actions which my application would not be.


*hugecripes*

Except that none of those interface or interact directly with the eve client to do what they do. (except evemon and cache scraping, but that has been addressed elsewhere)

It just sounds like you are looking to create an app that will perform what is intended as a human interaction with the client for you. *shrugs* just sounds like a bot rather than an app.

Good luck with your petition to CCP in trying to get the ok.

the entire enemy support fleet is dead except for one interdictor a titan could easily finish off with drones  - Commander Ted
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