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Idea: Repulsor Field Generator

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Joe Risalo
State War Academy
Caldari State
#21 - 2014-12-07 05:33:32 UTC  |  Edited by: Joe Risalo
baltec1 wrote:
Zephris wrote:


Pure nonsense and you know it.


We have zero input on how our target fits their ship, what is escorting it and what cargo they transport. We require people to be dumb and lazy.

Zephris wrote:

freighters have a grand total of modules and zero CPU.
It will die to 20 cats regardless how you fit it and how empty it is.


Uh hu. Cost to gank 2.5 billion

Zephris wrote:

That's just what gankers do.
They want tears, not a good balanced game, but tears without effort.

Ganking, as it is, is a exploit that requires no skill, no forethought and no risks.


If it is so risk free and easy why is it so rare?



Uhh... To me it looks like it's just a bunch of ships fitted for DPS, and it's not hard to catch a freighter full of goodies.
They're usually running items in a circle and not just from one spot to another and then coming back empty...
Sure, you will occassionally catch an empty freighter, but the odds are better that you won't catch an empty.

Now, I will say, it's not "risk" free, but there's not a whole lot of risks involved... You know you're going to lose your ship, but the only real risk you take is, will you kill the target before Concord shows up?

However, based on all the freighter ganks listed on the pages of so many of the 33 pilots on that list, i wouldn't say it's "so rare".
I mean, the Top DPS player on that list shows 11 freighter kills in less than a month...
ALL of which were in high sec, so it's obviously not that rare...

Now, don't take this the wrong way, I could care less what you gank... as a matter of fact, https://zkillboard.com/kill/42791164/ is just hilarious.

That said, it's obviously not too difficult to kill a freighter, given the right amount of dps...Which Goons have.
Hell, they even managed to pod the guy in the KM i just linked....
baltec1
Bat Country
Pandemic Horde
#22 - 2014-12-07 06:00:12 UTC
Joe Risalo wrote:



Uhh... To me it looks like it's just a bunch of ships fitted for DPS, and it's not hard to catch a freighter full of goodies.
They're usually running items in a circle and not just from one spot to another and then coming back empty...
Sure, you will occassionally catch an empty freighter, but the odds are better that you won't catch an empty.

Now, I will say, it's not "risk" free, but there's not a whole lot of risks involved... You know you're going to lose your ship, but the only real risk you take is, will you kill the target before Concord shows up?

However, based on all the freighter ganks listed on the pages of so many of the 33 pilots on that list, i wouldn't say it's "so rare".
I mean, the Top DPS player on that list shows 11 freighter kills in less than a month...
ALL of which were in high sec, so it's obviously not that rare...

Now, don't take this the wrong way, I could care less what you gank... as a matter of fact, https://zkillboard.com/kill/42791164/ is just hilarious.

That said, it's obviously not too difficult to kill a freighter, given the right amount of dps...Which Goons have.
Hell, they even managed to pod the guy in the KM i just linked....


Now compare the kills to the hundreds of thousand to millions of trips made each month by freighters in high sec.
Joe Risalo
State War Academy
Caldari State
#23 - 2014-12-07 06:09:50 UTC
baltec1 wrote:
Joe Risalo wrote:



Uhh... To me it looks like it's just a bunch of ships fitted for DPS, and it's not hard to catch a freighter full of goodies.
They're usually running items in a circle and not just from one spot to another and then coming back empty...
Sure, you will occassionally catch an empty freighter, but the odds are better that you won't catch an empty.

Now, I will say, it's not "risk" free, but there's not a whole lot of risks involved... You know you're going to lose your ship, but the only real risk you take is, will you kill the target before Concord shows up?

However, based on all the freighter ganks listed on the pages of so many of the 33 pilots on that list, i wouldn't say it's "so rare".
I mean, the Top DPS player on that list shows 11 freighter kills in less than a month...
ALL of which were in high sec, so it's obviously not that rare...

Now, don't take this the wrong way, I could care less what you gank... as a matter of fact, https://zkillboard.com/kill/42791164/ is just hilarious.

That said, it's obviously not too difficult to kill a freighter, given the right amount of dps...Which Goons have.
Hell, they even managed to pod the guy in the KM i just linked....


Now compare the kills to the hundreds of thousand to millions of trips made each month by freighters in high sec.


Hundreds of thousands to millions is a bit over embellishing isn't it?
Also, that's just one character involved it 11 kills in less than a month...
Those weren't the only 11 freighters killed...

To add to that, many freighters flying through high sec are alts for or are part of a major alliance.. So they're somewhat "protected" if you will... Goons aren't gonna gank their own transport alts...
baltec1
Bat Country
Pandemic Horde
#24 - 2014-12-07 06:30:19 UTC
Joe Risalo wrote:



Hundreds of thousands to millions is a bit over embellishing isn't it?


No its not.

Joe Risalo wrote:

Also, that's just one character involved it 11 kills in less than a month...
Those weren't the only 11 freighters killed...

To add to that, many freighters flying through high sec are alts for or are part of a major alliance.. So they're somewhat "protected" if you will... Goons aren't gonna gank their own transport alts...


So if we can protect our assets why cant you?
Joe Risalo
State War Academy
Caldari State
#25 - 2014-12-07 07:31:13 UTC  |  Edited by: Joe Risalo
baltec1 wrote:
Joe Risalo wrote:



Hundreds of thousands to millions is a bit over embellishing isn't it?


No its not.

Joe Risalo wrote:

Also, that's just one character involved it 11 kills in less than a month...
Those weren't the only 11 freighters killed...

To add to that, many freighters flying through high sec are alts for or are part of a major alliance.. So they're somewhat "protected" if you will... Goons aren't gonna gank their own transport alts...


So if we can protect our assets why cant you?


If you look at my stance so far on this thread, I'm against the idea provided by the topic.
In no way have I said ganking shouldn't happen or is way to easy..

My only point right now is that ganking isn't as difficult as you put it out to be.
Iain Cariaba
#26 - 2014-12-07 08:01:00 UTC
Joe Risalo wrote:
baltec1 wrote:
Joe Risalo wrote:



Hundreds of thousands to millions is a bit over embellishing isn't it?


No its not.

Joe Risalo wrote:

Also, that's just one character involved it 11 kills in less than a month...
Those weren't the only 11 freighters killed...

To add to that, many freighters flying through high sec are alts for or are part of a major alliance.. So they're somewhat "protected" if you will... Goons aren't gonna gank their own transport alts...


So if we can protect our assets why cant you?


If you look at my stance so far on this thread, I'm against the idea provided by the topic.
In no way have I said ganking shouldn't happen or is way to easy..

My only point right now is that ganking isn't as difficult as you put it out to be.

Yes, it is. However, like anything else, practice makes perfect. Go to YouTube and watch video of professional snowboarders doing tricks, then go out and try just one of those tricks and see how easy it is. The pros just make it look easy. Ganking is a learned skill like any other.
Jurico Elemenohpe
Flipsid3 Tactics
#27 - 2014-12-07 08:18:40 UTC  |  Edited by: Jurico Elemenohpe
Uhh.
If we can have a weapon for kiters so that blaster boats can't get near, can we also have an attraction field so that blaster boats can pull kiters into range?
Also, how do you define risk? Because if it's "chance of ship destruction", then gankers have the highest risk of all things in the game. And how will 1 ship with 2 mids fit 3 anti-mods?
I also believe CCP has said the cost will never be a balancing factor.
And if you have a problem with catalysts being super squishy, cheap, high-dps ships.. Complain about catalysts.
Donnachadh
United Allegiance of Undesirables
#28 - 2014-12-07 17:26:42 UTC
baltec1 wrote:
So if we can protect our assets why cant you?

Just a few wild and crazy thoughts here.
Because they do not have enough players in their corp/alliance to have an effective escort.
Because they are not willing to die to Concord to preemptively kill a group of ships in the off chance that they "may" be a gank squad. If they wait to be sure it is to probably late to do much about it anyway.

Just to be clear I have no problems with gankers, they are enjoying this game by playing it the way they want to and as long as they are playing by the rules and terms of service I say go forth and enjoy.
I will also say that the whole ganking area of the game needs to be looked at to see if there are balance issues that should/need to be addressed. No I have no idea what if anything needs to be done/changed but I do believe that it is time for CCP to take a look at the whole of the situation in a general sense.

I do have one request of you gankers though. Stop hiding your activities behind an wall of fabrications about how it is good for the game and the rest of that crap and just flat out admit that you do it "because you want to".
I ask this because nothing you as a ganker can do will have any real affect on the game or the players you gank or the corp/alliance they are a part of. The only exception to this is the players that rage quit over a ganking and to be honest the only ones in that group that I care even a little bit about are the new players.
Daichi Yamato
Jabbersnarks and Wonderglass
#29 - 2014-12-07 18:36:06 UTC  |  Edited by: Daichi Yamato
Donnachadh wrote:


I do have one request of you gankers though. Stop hiding your activities behind an wall of fabrications about how it is good for the game and the rest of that crap and just flat out admit that you do it "because you want to".
I ask this because nothing you as a ganker can do will have any real affect on the game or the players you gank or the corp/alliance they are a part of. The only exception to this is the players that rage quit over a ganking and to be honest the only ones in that group that I care even a little bit about are the new players.




you are oblivious

ive paid gankers/bumpers or ganked/bumped myself to attack miners in the same system as me. This has arguably increased my income by 5-10% every day ive done it because it means i get much more of those 5-10% rocks.

Every ship that is destroyed and needs replaced puts the margin up on my ship sales, puts the prices up on my mineral sales.

The code are responsible for putting some real paranoia into miners, look at Basil or Bethan who believe ganking is so rife that the skiff is the only viable mining barge. This means they are mining less efficiently than me because i can do the supposedly impossible task of mining in Mack's and Hulks and not get ganked.

do you have any idea how much worse industry in hi-sec would be if gankers werent destroying ships?
do you have any idea how much worse the margin on inter-regional trading would be if gankers werent destroying ships?
do you have any idea what competition is? or supply and demand?

TL:DR

By adding difficulty and risk:
Ganking adds value to otherwise trivial activities
Ganking creates a meaningful choice in how we mine/haul and what we mine/haul in
Ganking makes me money

EVE FAQ "7.2 CAN I AVOID PVP COMPLETELY? No; there are no systems or locations in New Eden where PvP may be completely avoided"

Daichi Yamato's version of structure based decs
Iain Cariaba
#30 - 2014-12-07 18:51:49 UTC
Donnachadh wrote:
I do have one request of you gankers though. Stop hiding your activities behind an wall of fabrications about how it is good for the game and the rest of that crap and just flat out admit that you do it "because you want to".
I ask this because nothing you as a ganker can do will have any real affect on the game or the players you gank or the corp/alliance they are a part of. The only exception to this is the players that rage quit over a ganking and to be honest the only ones in that group that I care even a little bit about are the new players.

You know how crowded ice belts get when they spawn? Now imagine that being done to almost every belt in highsec when there are no longer gankers roaming around making it dangerous to afk mine in highsec. If I could mine in highsec with zero risk, I'd activate a few new accounts and akf mine all day long while actually playing the game elsewhere. A large portion of the game would do the same thing.

You think competition for highsec resources is bad now, imagine what it would be like with tens of thousands more miners. Imagine what your profits will be then, and realize that the gankers help keep mineral prices high because not everyone wants to risk getting ganked for the pittance you earn mining in highsec.
Donnachadh
United Allegiance of Undesirables
#31 - 2014-12-07 23:58:13 UTC
Daichi and Lain please read my whole post.
I clearly stated that I have no trouble with those of you that gank other than this insane idea that what you do is good for the game.

Daichi
While you may be able to increase your own income with the ganks, overall to the entirety of the game of EVE the cumulative affect of gankers is marginal at most and most likely it is insignificant or completely irrelevant. Besides that "because it improves my income" is really just another way of stating "because I want to".

Iain Cariaba wrote:
You know how crowded ice belts get when they spawn? Now imagine that being done to almost every belt in highsec when there are no longer gankers roaming around making it dangerous to afk mine in highsec. If I could mine in highsec with zero risk, I'd activate a few new accounts and akf mine all day long while actually playing the game elsewhere. A large portion of the game would do the same thing.

You think competition for highsec resources is bad now, imagine what it would be like with tens of thousands more miners. Imagine what your profits will be then, and realize that the gankers help keep mineral prices high because not everyone wants to risk getting ganked for the pittance you earn mining in highsec.


Come now Lain your attempt to flatter your self and the other gankers is not becoming of a player that has shown your level of knowledge. To even think that the gankers can keep tens of thousands of miners out of the belts is ludicrous.
Besides that if you bothered to read instead of posting a knee jerk reaction to what you think is an anti ganking comment you would find these two things.

I believe it is time for CCP to look at the ganking area of the game again and make any adjustments they feel are needed.

That and I simply asked that you be honest and say "I gank because I want to" instead of tryuing to justify it as being good for the game.
Daichi Yamato
Jabbersnarks and Wonderglass
#32 - 2014-12-08 04:50:53 UTC  |  Edited by: Daichi Yamato
it is clear to anyone, ganking has an infulence upon hisec. whether you like it or not.

its not just a conduit for players to get their kicks. the effect of gankers is more than insignificant. the links to the other posters should have shown you that. you tried to say ganking has no effect but it clearly does.

EVE FAQ "7.2 CAN I AVOID PVP COMPLETELY? No; there are no systems or locations in New Eden where PvP may be completely avoided"

Daichi Yamato's version of structure based decs
Catherine Laartii
Doomheim
#33 - 2014-12-08 06:42:51 UTC
why not make this a capital sized weapon? I can see this being used in hilarious ways on carriers, and it would solve the 'premature launch' issue on trade hubs.
Adrie Atticus
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#34 - 2014-12-08 09:10:21 UTC  |  Edited by: Adrie Atticus
All I see on this module is: "If you miss the bump in your machariel, just pulse this when you're close to gain a bumping effect, L2aim."
ISD Ezwal
ISD Community Communications Liaisons
ISD Alliance
#35 - 2014-12-08 10:18:41 UTC
I have removed a rule breaking post.

The Rules:
4. Personal attacks are prohibited.

Commonly known as flaming, personal attacks are posts that are designed to personally berate or insult another forum user. Posts of this nature are not beneficial to the community spirit that CCP promote and as such they will not be tolerated.

ISD Ezwal Community Communication Liaisons (CCLs)
Parsimony Kate
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#36 - 2014-12-08 14:41:58 UTC  |  Edited by: Parsimony Kate
At some point don't we need to stop behaving like the girl in the black and white films tied to the railway track "Help me CCP, help me!!"?

No of course it's not practical to hire security - it would cost too much because mining is the second most boring job in EVE, the first most boring job being providing security for miners BUT we can help ourselves in spite of this. We have the option to fit our barges to make the most of their potential EHP, we fleet up with others because a swarm of well directed tech II drones can be very effective against aggressors. We can pay attention to D-Scan and local from time to time. And when someone inevitably kills us then maybe try out whatever your personal equivalent of "Oh bother - you got me! Well done!" in local instead of a long screaming, bitter rant questioning both their parentage and ability to procreate. Or if that is too difficult maybe just say nothing at all - either way it's got to be better than risking an aneurysm over it? Then get out your arse-kicking ship and go and shoot them in the face. Maybe go out with some friends, take a picnic, make an adventure of it? Take a day off from the "Mine & Whine"!

Either way, this module would either be useless if it was easily circumvented by firing beyond its range, or it would be horrendously overpowered and we do NOT need special protection! If something like this were introduced I hope CCP would consider not allowing it in high sec or near stations.
Bronson Hughes
The Knights of the Blessed Mother of Acceleration
#37 - 2014-12-08 14:53:04 UTC  |  Edited by: Bronson Hughes
Zephris wrote:
baltec1 wrote:
Its only ever as easy as the victim makes it.


Pure nonsense and you know it.
freighters have a grand total of modules and zero CPU.
It will die to 20 cats regardless how you fit it and how empty it is.

That's just what gankers do.
They want tears, not a good balanced game, but tears without effort.

Ganking, as it is, is a exploit that requires no skill, no forethought and no risks.

Do you know about things like:

1. Insta-undock and insta-dock bookmarks? You can't gank a freighter at a station if it docks or hits warp before it's a valid target.
2. Scouts? You can't gank a freighter that doesn't travel where gankers are active.
3. Webs? You can't gank a freighter at a stargate that gets webbed into warp.
4. Logis? On the off chance that 1-3 fail, a few logi cruisers will make any freighter far harder to gank.


Ample tools already exist for those that use them.

Also, see my sig for CCP Falcon's view on suicide ganking. His official stance is that it is not an exploit, nor does it need "fixing".

-1.

EDIT: Not to mention, this proposed module would have rather remarkable effects on combat in general:

1. Got drones attacking your battleship? No problem, pulse this thing once and send hostile (and friendly) drones flying a few thousand kilometers.
2. Got a blaster frigate pecking away at you in your battleship? No problem, pulse this thing to keep them out of range.
3. Got pesky sentry drones attacking your fleet? No problem, send in a 'ceptor fit with one to send them flying out of range.
4. Etc. etc. etc.

These would be so fundamentally broken. So. Fundamentally. Broken.

Relatively Notorious By Association

My Many Misadventures

I predicted FAUXs
baltec1
Bat Country
Pandemic Horde
#38 - 2014-12-08 15:24:54 UTC
Donnachadh wrote:

Because they do not have enough players in their corp/alliance to have an effective escort.


An effective escort requires one other pilot.


Donnachadh wrote:

Because they are not willing to die to Concord to preemptively kill a group of ships in the off chance that they "may" be a gank squad.
The most effective counters to ganking involve concord in no way.
Zephris
The Eldritch Circle
#39 - 2014-12-08 19:05:53 UTC
So much BS.
I am not complaining about getting ganked. I am trying to stop ganks and none of those things mentioned helped in any of the dozens of freighters ganked in Uedama.
Instaundock does not work at stargates.
Machs bumps freighter as soon as they start to align. Unless you are talking about a web alt in a vindicator with multiple webifiers there is still a window to bump them, and once that happened they will never align again.
"escort" and "logi". That's us, actually. Roll. It's still too easy to gank with AG fleet sitting ON TOP OF THE TARGET as long as gankers can produce more DPS to compensate for the number of AG present.

80% of responses in this thread was crap spewed by gankers to confuse people who doesn't know how many people and how much isk it takes to actually block a gank. That's at least 50% number of gankers, well organized, in expensive ships.

And no the module doesn't effect drones. So there goes your entire "flawed" thing.
Daichi Yamato
Jabbersnarks and Wonderglass
#40 - 2014-12-08 19:16:50 UTC  |  Edited by: Daichi Yamato
Zephris wrote:

80% of responses in this thread was crap spewed by gankers to confuse people who doesn't know how many people and how much isk it takes to actually block a gank. That's at least 50% number of gankers, well organized, in expensive ships.


Zephris wrote:


To stop a gank of 15 catalyst [45 mil ? if that], it takes 5 Falcons (1 billion ). because with anything less the gankers can just go after another target. There are no other activity in EVE that necessitate such disproportional investment in defense.



Zephris wrote:

Unless you are talking about a web alt in a vindicator with multiple webifiers there is still a window to bump them,


I think i know why its costing you so much more than anyone else to avoid ganks

EVE FAQ "7.2 CAN I AVOID PVP COMPLETELY? No; there are no systems or locations in New Eden where PvP may be completely avoided"

Daichi Yamato's version of structure based decs