These forums have been archived and are now read-only.

The new forums are live and can be found at https://forums.eveonline.com/

Player Features and Ideas Discussion

 
  • Topic is locked indefinitely.
123Next pageLast page
 

Idea: Repulsor Field Generator

First post
Author
Zephris
The Eldritch Circle
#1 - 2014-12-06 21:43:49 UTC
TLDR: High power modules that pushes people back.

Details

Rationale
CCP wants players to deal with ganking, but tools are lacking. The best way to deal with large number of cheap ships is AOE attack but AOE attack in highsec leads inevitably to Concodoken, if not a ganking scout could simply walk into it intentionally.
Without AOE attacks, anti-ganking operation need to CC individual gankers but Catalysts have two mid spots that can fit cap boosters, ECCM or tracking computers. This means for anti ganking operation to succeed, it would take in average 1 anti-gank for every 2 gankers, and over 10 times the value of ganking fleet in isk.
Which is hardly balanced.

Details
Repulsor field generators apply 1 trillion kilojoules of Kenetic energy to all ships in range, forcing them away from the ship carrying it. This result in about 800m/s in a Catalyst or 100m/s in a Hyperion (Ha Ha ha). Repulsor field have no optimal, however a falloff depending on the size of the module: 20 km for heavy ones, 10 km for medium and 5km for small. Activation cost is 250 for small, 500 for mid, and 1000 for large. The cycle time is 30 seconds and only one repulsion generator of any kind can be active on a ship at any given time, just like ECM burst. Fitting cost identical to a cap booster and uses a high slot.
Effecting a ship with a repulsion field is not considered aggressive action, nor does repulsion field drop cloaks.

Expected Effects
- Ganking risk would be brought in line with other pvp activities, as a much smaller number of players and cheaper ships will be required to save a gank victim.
- It cannot be used to harass mission runners because it has negligible effects on battleships and a microwarpdrive nullifies it very effectively.
- It cannot be used to bump because on a providence it causes a speed of 33m/s and can only be activated once every 30 seconds.
- They are likely to make small ships slightly less effective against big ship fleets as successive use of the module can "kick" small ships out of a ball of big ships. However, frigates are nimble enough this shouldn't cause them much of a problem.

If you are a ganker, don't bother arguing that it's balanced. there is no risk. It's easy to spot an anti-gank fleet and calculate how many extra ship is needed. Ganking is less risky than running missions in highsec atm.
Danika Princip
GoonWaffe
Goonswarm Federation
#2 - 2014-12-06 22:03:54 UTC
So I can get four battleships, fit these things, and keep a freighter permabumped with zero effort then? Don't even need a run up?

And you do realise these would be utterly hilarious off the jita undock, right?
Zephris
The Eldritch Circle
#3 - 2014-12-06 22:13:08 UTC  |  Edited by: Zephris
don't do much to freighters.
with 4 BS you get to change the freighter's velocity to 120 every 30 seconds.
If you had 4 BS, you can send them to bump 4 separate freighters. and none of them would warp.

on jita undock, you fire one of these off, you'd kick all the frigates and destroyer out, who will then warp out.
You will need an army of battleships to cause significant disruption, but even then not for long because you will end up kicking your own fleet away from undock. You see, repulsion don't have an optimal, only falloff. To move a freighter, eve for 10m/s you have to be next to it.
Alundil
Rolled Out
#4 - 2014-12-06 22:14:42 UTC
And probably wouldn't significantly reduce ganks either. As the gank crew would just bring slightly more T1 short range ships or alpha projectile turrets and do it from outside the range of the module. Interesting thought. But probably not going to have the effect you're going for.

I'm right behind you

Danika Princip
GoonWaffe
Goonswarm Federation
#5 - 2014-12-06 22:14:52 UTC
It's not so much about kicking ships around, as knocking them off of their alignment. That's all you need to do to stop them warping.
Iain Cariaba
#6 - 2014-12-06 22:16:26 UTC  |  Edited by: Iain Cariaba
Zephris wrote:
If you are a ganker, don't bother arguing that it's balanced. there is no risk. It's easy to spot an anti-gank fleet and calculate how many extra ship is needed. Ganking is less risky than running missions in highsec atm.

You fail to realize that this is because gankers use their brains to calculate the know variables and determine if a gank is worth doing. If it's not worth ganking, you won't see the gankers at all.

Now if only the carebears would use their brains to avoid the ganks, rather than use their fingers to keep shiptoasting bad ideas on how to fix something that isn't broken.
Corraidhin Farsaidh
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#7 - 2014-12-06 22:17:04 UTC
Zephris wrote:
TLDR: High power modules that pushes people back.

Details

Rationale
CCP wants players to deal with ganking, but tools are lacking...



No they aren't, there are numerous ways to avoid/deter ganking...
Zephris
The Eldritch Circle
#8 - 2014-12-06 22:20:30 UTC
Iain Cariaba wrote:
Zephris wrote:
If you are a ganker, don't bother arguing that it's balanced. there is no risk. It's easy to spot an anti-gank fleet and calculate how many extra ship is needed. Ganking is less risky than running missions in highsec atm.

You fail to realize that this is because gankers use their brains to calculate the know variables and determine if a gank is worth doing. If it's not worth ganking, you won't see the gankers at all.

Now if only the carebears would use their brains to avoid the banks, rather than use their fingers to keep shiptoasting bad ideas on how to fix something that isn't broken.


I seriously doubt their brain is working in that case.
There were many, many dead empty freighters. want me to link some ?

Anti-gankers are not carebares. carebare would not be out in fully skilled recon or logi stopping gankers,
Every hour you spent fighting gankers is 20 mil isk lost mining time. a carebare would go crazy doing this.
Paranoid Loyd
#9 - 2014-12-06 22:21:20 UTC
How would this have helped your autopiloting shuttle?

"There is only one authority in this game, and that my friend is violence. The supreme authority upon which all other authority is derived." ISD Max Trix

Fix the Prospect!

Zephris
The Eldritch Circle
#10 - 2014-12-06 22:33:50 UTC
Paranoid Loyd wrote:
How would this have helped your autopiloting shuttle?


it wouldn't. you are assuming that I must post something about my shuttle. It's about balance.

This is about Balancing ganking vs gank defense. No sane person can say with a straight face it's balanced.

To stop a gank of 15 catalyst [45 mil ? if that], it takes 5 Falcons (1 billion ). because with anything less the gankers can just go after another target. There are no other activity in EVE that necessitate such disproportional investment in defense.

Not even AFK cloaking.
Danika Princip
GoonWaffe
Goonswarm Federation
#11 - 2014-12-06 22:37:18 UTC
Zephris wrote:
Paranoid Loyd wrote:
How would this have helped your autopiloting shuttle?


it wouldn't. you are assuming that I must post something about my shuttle. It's about balance.

This is about Balancing ganking vs gank defense. No sane person can say with a straight face it's balanced.

To stop a gank of 15 catalyst [45 mil ? if that], it takes 5 Falcons (1 billion ). because with anything less the gankers can just go after another target. There are no other activity in EVE that necessitate such disproportional investment in defense.

Not even AFK cloaking.



You don't need to jam every catalyst to stop the gank from succeeding.
Paranoid Loyd
#12 - 2014-12-06 22:39:47 UTC  |  Edited by: Paranoid Loyd
Zephris wrote:
No sane person can say with a straight face it's balanced.
It is balanced. Straight
You simply don't understand enough about it to come up with a viable solution. Maybe try ganking then you will be able to understand that it is balanced as well as come up with viable solutions to counter it.

Also stop comparing the cost of things, the game is not designed to create balance through value.

"There is only one authority in this game, and that my friend is violence. The supreme authority upon which all other authority is derived." ISD Max Trix

Fix the Prospect!

Iain Cariaba
#13 - 2014-12-06 22:43:37 UTC
Zephris wrote:
Iain Cariaba wrote:
Zephris wrote:
If you are a ganker, don't bother arguing that it's balanced. there is no risk. It's easy to spot an anti-gank fleet and calculate how many extra ship is needed. Ganking is less risky than running missions in highsec atm.

You fail to realize that this is because gankers use their brains to calculate the know variables and determine if a gank is worth doing. If it's not worth ganking, you won't see the gankers at all.

Now if only the carebears would use their brains to avoid the banks, rather than use their fingers to keep shiptoasting bad ideas on how to fix something that isn't broken.


I seriously doubt their brain is working in that case.
There were many, many dead empty freighters. want me to link some ?

Anti-gankers are not carebares. carebare would not be out in fully skilled recon or logi stopping gankers,
Every hour you spent fighting gankers is 20 mil isk lost mining time. a carebare would go crazy doing this.

StraightWhat?SmileBig smileLolLolLolRoll
I've been in the Anti-Ganking channel. I've yet to find a larger group of self important, risk averse posers continuously patting themselves on the back over their own misperceptions about how great they are while constantly bleating that it is up to CCP to fix their problems, and mind you I've been in the CFC and currently live in renter space.

Also note all those empty freighter kills. How many of them were performed by MiniLuv, who has a mandate to destroy as much as possible in highsec? What may look to you like the evil gankers picking on poor defenseless haulers likely has a meaning behind it that you simply don't see. How many of those empty haulers were ganked simply because the gankers wanted to make an example of an autopiloting pilot, as seems to be something CODE. likes to do?

This can all be prevented.
Zephris
The Eldritch Circle
#14 - 2014-12-06 23:19:12 UTC  |  Edited by: Zephris
Iain Cariaba wrote:
Zephris wrote:
Iain Cariaba wrote:
Zephris wrote:
If you are a ganker, don't bother arguing that it's balanced. there is no risk. It's easy to spot an anti-gank fleet and calculate how many extra ship is needed. Ganking is less risky than running missions in highsec atm.

You fail to realize that this is because gankers use their brains to calculate the know variables and determine if a gank is worth doing. If it's not worth ganking, you won't see the gankers at all.

Now if only the carebears would use their brains to avoid the banks, rather than use their fingers to keep shiptoasting bad ideas on how to fix something that isn't broken.


I seriously doubt their brain is working in that case.
There were many, many dead empty freighters. want me to link some ?

Anti-gankers are not carebares. carebare would not be out in fully skilled recon or logi stopping gankers,
Every hour you spent fighting gankers is 20 mil isk lost mining time. a carebare would go crazy doing this.

StraightWhat?SmileBig smileLolLolLolRoll
I've been in the Anti-Ganking channel. I've yet to find a larger group of self important, risk averse posers continuously patting themselves on the back over their own misperceptions about how great they are while constantly bleating that it is up to CCP to fix their problems, and mind you I've been in the CFC and currently live in renter space.

Also note all those empty freighter kills. How many of them were performed by MiniLuv, who has a mandate to destroy as much as possible in highsec? What may look to you like the evil gankers picking on poor defenseless haulers likely has a meaning behind it that you simply don't see. How many of those empty haulers were ganked simply because the gankers wanted to make an example of an autopiloting pilot, as seems to be something CODE. likes to do?

This can all be prevented.


Unbalanced is unbalanced regardless if gankers want to loot the freighter or cause fear to sell permit. it's too easy and too risk free.
anti ganking is more risky than ganking because we actually fly ships worth more than 5 mil. (more importantly, our own ships rather than ships all fitted the same way and handed out to you). From time to time one of us get ganked.

Nice job trying to derail the thread but no.
I am just going to go ahead and ignore all the noise by gankers. if you are not a ganker have a valid point, you are more than welcome.
Iain Cariaba
#15 - 2014-12-06 23:32:31 UTC
Zephris wrote:
Iain Cariaba wrote:
Zephris wrote:
Iain Cariaba wrote:
Zephris wrote:
If you are a ganker, don't bother arguing that it's balanced. there is no risk. It's easy to spot an anti-gank fleet and calculate how many extra ship is needed. Ganking is less risky than running missions in highsec atm.

You fail to realize that this is because gankers use their brains to calculate the know variables and determine if a gank is worth doing. If it's not worth ganking, you won't see the gankers at all.

Now if only the carebears would use their brains to avoid the banks, rather than use their fingers to keep shiptoasting bad ideas on how to fix something that isn't broken.


I seriously doubt their brain is working in that case.
There were many, many dead empty freighters. want me to link some ?

Anti-gankers are not carebares. carebare would not be out in fully skilled recon or logi stopping gankers,
Every hour you spent fighting gankers is 20 mil isk lost mining time. a carebare would go crazy doing this.

StraightWhat?SmileBig smileLolLolLolRoll
I've been in the Anti-Ganking channel. I've yet to find a larger group of self important, risk averse posers continuously patting themselves on the back over their own misperceptions about how great they are while constantly bleating that it is up to CCP to fix their problems, and mind you I've been in the CFC and currently live in renter space.

Also note all those empty freighter kills. How many of them were performed by MiniLuv, who has a mandate to destroy as much as possible in highsec? What may look to you like the evil gankers picking on poor defenseless haulers likely has a meaning behind it that you simply don't see. How many of those empty haulers were ganked simply because the gankers wanted to make an example of an autopiloting pilot, as seems to be something CODE. likes to do?

This can all be prevented.


Unbalanced is unbalanced regardless if gankers want to look the freighter or cause fear to sell permit. it's too easy and too risk free.
anti ganking is more risky than ganking because we actually fly ships worth more than 5 mil. And from time to time one of them get ganked.

Nice job trying to derail the thread but no.


Why don't you fly ships worth less than 5 mil? It's not like ganking catalysts are known for their impressive tanking abilities. Grow beyond your "bigger is better" mentality. As has been repeatedly posted, you don't have to stop every single ganker to stop the gank. Get some catalysts of your own, grab some friends, and alpha a few gankers off the field.

Bottom line: Your idea is bad, and is far, far more likely to get abused by the very people you want to target with it than it is to be used against them. There are far better methods of dealing with gankers than to equip them with more tools.

If you really want to know how to stop gankers, ask them. Most of them are more than happy to explain how they do what they do, and how to prevent it. I did, and since then I have yet to lose a PvE ship or hauler due to ganking.
baltec1
Bat Country
Pandemic Horde
#16 - 2014-12-07 00:30:43 UTC
Zephris wrote:

Unbalanced is unbalanced regardless if gankers want to loot the freighter or cause fear to sell permit. it's too easy and too risk free.


Its only ever as easy as the victim makes it.
Zephris
The Eldritch Circle
#17 - 2014-12-07 03:30:55 UTC
baltec1 wrote:
Zephris wrote:

Unbalanced is unbalanced regardless if gankers want to loot the freighter or cause fear to sell permit. it's too easy and too risk free.


Its only ever as easy as the victim makes it.


Pure nonsense and you know it.
freighters have a grand total of modules and zero CPU.
It will die to 20 cats regardless how you fit it and how empty it is.

That's just what gankers do.
They want tears, not a good balanced game, but tears without effort.

Ganking, as it is, is a exploit that requires no skill, no forethought and no risks.
Joe Risalo
State War Academy
Caldari State
#18 - 2014-12-07 03:50:17 UTC
I don't think this ship would aid in avoiding ganking by any means.
Ganks are normally done by high damage, high alpha, ranged ships..
Tornado as an example.

The gankers aren't gonna be within range of you for your module to work.
Also, getting pushed out wouldn't hurt them anyway, as they're trying to DPS you, not lock you down.
Not to mention the fact that they hope to have you down before Concord can pop them...


This module would actually do nothing but aid baiters... The ones that try to get you to attack them so they can freely burn you down. there are plenty of ships with more utility highs than mids, and it may be more effective you use this module and bumping to keep you from warping, than it would be to fit a warp scram..
Though this situation is pretty limited as well...

All in all, it basically boils down to nothing more than a for laughs module like snow balls and fire crackers...
Daichi Yamato
Jabbersnarks and Wonderglass
#19 - 2014-12-07 04:10:52 UTC  |  Edited by: Daichi Yamato
*Snip* Please refrain from personal attacks. ISD Ezwal.

It appears this gentleman doesnt know very much about ganking, or flying freighters...

Zephris wrote:


To stop a gank of 15 catalyst [45 mil ? if that], it takes 5 Falcons (1 billion ). because with anything less the gankers can just go after another target. There are no other activity in EVE that necessitate such disproportional investment in defense.



So use griffins and blackbirds...Roll

EVE FAQ "7.2 CAN I AVOID PVP COMPLETELY? No; there are no systems or locations in New Eden where PvP may be completely avoided"

Daichi Yamato's version of structure based decs

baltec1
Bat Country
Pandemic Horde
#20 - 2014-12-07 05:09:25 UTC
Zephris wrote:


Pure nonsense and you know it.


We have zero input on how our target fits their ship, what is escorting it and what cargo they transport. We require people to be dumb and lazy.

Zephris wrote:

freighters have a grand total of modules and zero CPU.
It will die to 20 cats regardless how you fit it and how empty it is.


Uh hu. Cost to gank 2.5 billion

Zephris wrote:

That's just what gankers do.
They want tears, not a good balanced game, but tears without effort.

Ganking, as it is, is a exploit that requires no skill, no forethought and no risks.


If it is so risk free and easy why is it so rare?
123Next pageLast page