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CSM X - What are you voting for?

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Jenshae Chiroptera
#81 - 2015-01-08 04:13:12 UTC
Seraph IX Basarab wrote:
A "good fight" is subjective. What you want is to be able to hide your industrial ships because you believe that the war ships and indy ships should never interact.


Incorrect. There would be more at stake and you can bet that the ball will be dropped more than once. A tool is only as good as those using it.

CCP - Building ant hills and magnifying glasses for fat kids

Not even once

EVE is becoming shallow and puerile; it will satisfy neither the veteran nor the "WoW" type crowd in the transition.
Seraph IX Basarab
Outer Path
Seraphim Division
#82 - 2015-01-08 04:39:11 UTC
Your OP example denotes that you feel industrial ships are too easily killed by attackers. Defenders already have the majority of advantages. Local as an intel rule. You have infrastructure to reship. You have your own allies. What exactly is the issue?
Jenshae Chiroptera
#83 - 2015-01-08 04:42:23 UTC
Seraph IX Basarab wrote:
Your OP example denotes that you feel industrial ships are too easily killed by attackers. Defenders already have the majority of advantages. Local as an intel rule. You have infrastructure to reship. You have your own allies. What exactly is the issue?
Cloaked ship has the intel. From that they can plan and launch an attack at their leisure; that wipes out the defenders or move on to a softer target.

CCP - Building ant hills and magnifying glasses for fat kids

Not even once

EVE is becoming shallow and puerile; it will satisfy neither the veteran nor the "WoW" type crowd in the transition.
Seraph IX Basarab
Outer Path
Seraphim Division
#84 - 2015-01-08 05:10:07 UTC
Jenshae Chiroptera wrote:
Seraph IX Basarab wrote:
Your OP example denotes that you feel industrial ships are too easily killed by attackers. Defenders already have the majority of advantages. Local as an intel rule. You have infrastructure to reship. You have your own allies. What exactly is the issue?
Cloaked ship has the intel. From that they can plan and launch an attack at their leisure; that wipes out the defenders or move on to a softer target.


I asked what the issue is. You respond with cloaked ships having intel and that they can launch their attack when they choose or move on. WHY is that an issue?
Jenshae Chiroptera
#85 - 2015-01-08 05:11:44 UTC
Seraph IX Basarab wrote:
Jenshae Chiroptera wrote:
Seraph IX Basarab wrote:
Your OP example denotes that you feel industrial ships are too easily killed by attackers. Defenders already have the majority of advantages. Local as an intel rule. You have infrastructure to reship. You have your own allies. What exactly is the issue?
Cloaked ship has the intel. From that they can plan and launch an attack at their leisure; that wipes out the defenders or move on to a softer target.
I asked what the issue is. You respond with cloaked ships having intel and that they can launch their attack when they choose or move on. WHY is that an issue?
"Majority of advantage"

CCP - Building ant hills and magnifying glasses for fat kids

Not even once

EVE is becoming shallow and puerile; it will satisfy neither the veteran nor the "WoW" type crowd in the transition.
Seraph IX Basarab
Outer Path
Seraphim Division
#86 - 2015-01-08 05:13:14 UTC
How about this. You list and number all the advantages the attacker has and I'll list the advantages the defender has.

Go.
Jenshae Chiroptera
#87 - 2015-01-08 05:29:43 UTC  |  Edited by: Jenshae Chiroptera
Seraph IX Basarab wrote:
How about this. You list and number all the advantages the attacker has and I'll list the advantages the defender has.

Go.


Attackers:

  • Cloaked intel
  • Cloaked warp to point
  • AFK cloaked ship that can spring at *any* time
  • Unknown numbers that can cyno in
  • Shared corp book marks
  • Increased power creep over the years.
  • New interceptors, cheap, very fast and immune to defense bubbles.
  • Bombs.
  • Cheap bubblers like sabres
  • Increased warp speeds
  • Mobile cyno jammers
  • The unwillingness of players to wait around to counter drop or react to defend every day miners (naturally enough)
  • The lack of tools a miner can use on a barge to trap attackers.
  • Lack of mobility of defenders to other systems.
  • Cheap destroyers that have the damage of cruisers and the speed tank of frigates
  • Anonymous alts.
  • Spies
  • Awoxers.
  • Edit: That it takes less time for 5x cheap destroyers to leap into a system and blow a miner away than it takes for ratters to wake up and warp directly to miners.

How is that for a list off the top of my head?

CCP - Building ant hills and magnifying glasses for fat kids

Not even once

EVE is becoming shallow and puerile; it will satisfy neither the veteran nor the "WoW" type crowd in the transition.
Seraph IX Basarab
Outer Path
Seraphim Division
#88 - 2015-01-08 05:49:43 UTC
Pretty bad actually.

Cloaked warp to point, bookmarks, bombs, ceptors and awoxers? Why are things like that even on a list? I mean you can just name any arbitrary thing and list it. Half the things listed can be placed in favor of the defenders as well.


Defenders:

-Local providing instant intel
-Intel channels
-Stations
-poses
-close proximity to home
-plenty of blues
-venture which is cheap and naturally stabbed
-prospect which has cov ops cloak
-cyno jammers
-jump bridges allowing quick and easy movement
-can easily store caps in near by stations/poses
-can set up traps to kill attackers
-Unknown numbers that can cyno in
-cloaked intel
-cloaked warp to point
-the unwillingness for players to drop on defenders if too far deep into nul
-can afk in station forever
-spies
-awoxers
-anon alts
-fake edit; Maybe the defending ratter shouldn't be sleeping in the first place.

Your whole mentality just reeks of hand holding theme park style game play. Eve is a PVP game. It isn't WoW where you can choose to opt out of PvP. You undock, you agree to PvP. Industrial ships are suppose to be used to gather resources, not fight.
Jenshae Chiroptera
#89 - 2015-01-08 06:06:45 UTC  |  Edited by: Jenshae Chiroptera
Seraph IX Basarab wrote:
Your whole mentality just reeks of hand holding theme park style game play.

That is your repeated opinion and I disagree.

Defenders:

-Local providing instant intel Arrow(not in worm holes)
-Intel channels Arrow (Not in most of high sec and not in worm holes)
-Stations Arrow (If you can get there before they are bubbled up)
-poses Arrow (If you can get there before they are bubbled up)
-close proximity to home (... and?)
-plenty of blues Arrow (As pointed out recently systems can only support X number of blues and it takes too long to get there, hence the mini POS bubble to risk a valuable ship and buy some time)
-venture which is cheap and naturally stabbed Arrow (Cute little joke of a ship that is only good for newbies and the T2 version is okay for WH gas)
-prospect which has cov ops cloak (As above)
-cyno jammers Arrow (Does not stop black ops, does not stop previously logged off ships / pilots)
-jump bridges allowing quick and easy movement Arrow (If you can get there)
-can easily store caps in near by stations/poses Arrow (Welcome to escalations and a waste of caps for miners.)
-can set up traps to kill attackers Arrow (The ones you can't hide from cloaked intel ships?)
-Unknown numbers that can cyno in Arrow (They aren't there remember? They aren't going to sit around 23.5/7 while an AFK cloaker sleeps)
-cloaked intel Arrow (Useful up to the point that they know what you can field and have brought something you can't handle)
-cloaked warp to point Arrow (Slow boat between two or more warp off points and use a tractor beam hauler that is aligned to a safe)
-the unwillingness for players to drop on defenders if too far deep into null Arrow (Why? They cloak up and can wait it out until the coast is clear.)
-can afk in station forever Arrow (Denied the ability to play unless they jump clone out)
-spies, awoxers, anon alts Arrow (Close recruitment when you pick out a target)
-fake edit; Maybe the defending ratter shouldn't be sleeping in the first place. ArrowRoll

Edit:
See, this, I can agree a variety of ores but the jump bridges and such would be rather excessive and I can see griefers using combat Ventures Lol to grief newbies.

CCP - Building ant hills and magnifying glasses for fat kids

Not even once

EVE is becoming shallow and puerile; it will satisfy neither the veteran nor the "WoW" type crowd in the transition.
Seraph IX Basarab
Outer Path
Seraphim Division
#90 - 2015-01-08 15:46:11 UTC
Crap answers. And this game isn't divided between attacker and defender. Everyone has the same limitations and everyone is an attacker or defender. None of your criticisms are viable toward the current method and I doubt anyone except renters or carebears would feel the same.
Jenshae Chiroptera
#91 - 2015-01-08 16:29:58 UTC
Seraph IX Basarab wrote:
Crap answers. And this game isn't divided between attacker and defender. Everyone has the same limitations and everyone is an attacker or defender. None of your criticisms are viable toward the current method and I doubt anyone except renters or carebears would feel the same.
We have a difference of opinion and I feel you are blind to my perspective. We won't resolve this. Have a good time. o7

CCP - Building ant hills and magnifying glasses for fat kids

Not even once

EVE is becoming shallow and puerile; it will satisfy neither the veteran nor the "WoW" type crowd in the transition.
warfreky
Safety Hazard
#92 - 2015-01-08 17:26:53 UTC
I totally agree the mechanic need to be changed in some way cloaky reds sitting all day playing with their dicks go against ccps who new direction of meaningful game play. being able to sit afk for hours and have an impact in game is counter productive to the whole new direction .
/me points to iso boxer
Garret Sidzaka
Brave Newbies Inc.
Brave Collective
#93 - 2015-01-08 17:28:44 UTC
Jenshae Chiroptera wrote:


Pirating is the real care bear profession. Pirate = Bear



and they are whiners too, with bulls*** sense of honour.

why not make it so that there is a better chance of people suviving.

Whats the sport in a cloaked bomber with cyno who sits in your system for 3 weeks, and randomly warps to you and blops 12 sins on your butt?? Those goat-people even have the crass to say "gf"!!

fix eve?
Jenshae Chiroptera
#94 - 2015-01-08 17:43:55 UTC
Garret Sidzaka wrote:
Jenshae Chiroptera wrote:
Pirating is the real care bear profession. Pirate = Bear
and they are whiners too, with bulls*** sense of honour.
fix eve?
It depends what you mean.
If you mean hot droppers that use *afk* cloak alts then I agree.
If you mean guys that use throw away alts in throw away ships then I agree.

However, there are pirates that are really great. Those guys that go in and rob sites of their salvage or random ships for a song. Those guys that use their main character with real ships and hunt in low sec. The guys that pick out a particular person, find them, corner them and blow them up. There are pirates that play like the bounty system actually works and they do it successfully for the profit of the loot that drops.

I can respect people that play with the mechanics the way they were intended to work and don't exploit the weaknesses.

CCP - Building ant hills and magnifying glasses for fat kids

Not even once

EVE is becoming shallow and puerile; it will satisfy neither the veteran nor the "WoW" type crowd in the transition.
Seraph IX Basarab
Outer Path
Seraphim Division
#95 - 2015-01-08 17:52:22 UTC
Would you be for removing cloaked ships from local? The issue I often hear is that an afk cloaky person stops people from doing anything in a system. If they vanished from local that effect would stop. If they attacked, they wouldn't be afk and is legitimate gameplay. What are your thoughts?
Jenshae Chiroptera
#96 - 2015-01-08 18:03:54 UTC
Seraph IX Basarab wrote:
Would you be for removing cloaked ships from local? The issue I often hear is that an afk cloaky person stops people from doing anything in a system. If they vanished from local that effect would stop. If they attacked, they wouldn't be afk and is legitimate gameplay. What are your thoughts?
As said previously, the idea I support is SOV structures and Force Recon hunters.
Cloakers could still operate they would just have to do it actively.

CCP - Building ant hills and magnifying glasses for fat kids

Not even once

EVE is becoming shallow and puerile; it will satisfy neither the veteran nor the "WoW" type crowd in the transition.
Seraph IX Basarab
Outer Path
Seraphim Division
#97 - 2015-01-08 18:08:40 UTC
Vague answer that didn't address the specifics of my questions, unfortunately.
Jenshae Chiroptera
#98 - 2015-01-09 02:36:19 UTC  |  Edited by: Jenshae Chiroptera
Seraph IX Basarab wrote:
Vague answer that didn't address the specifics of my questions, unfortunately.
There is no point in answering. The answer is there if you ask anyone in a wormhole. You are wasting time asking questions that could be in a FAQ to newbies.

CCP - Building ant hills and magnifying glasses for fat kids

Not even once

EVE is becoming shallow and puerile; it will satisfy neither the veteran nor the "WoW" type crowd in the transition.
Seraph IX Basarab
Outer Path
Seraphim Division
#99 - 2015-01-09 04:53:10 UTC
There is no FAQ for your opinions, which is the purpose of this thread. Being condescending doesn't exactly inspire constituents to vote for you either. Bit of political advice there.
Jenshae Chiroptera
#100 - 2015-01-09 14:56:20 UTC  |  Edited by: Jenshae Chiroptera
Seraph IX Basarab wrote:
There is no FAQ for your opinions, which is the purpose of this thread. Being condescending doesn't exactly inspire constituents to vote for you either. Bit of political advice there.


Entertaining you is worse because you are argumentative with everyone on the forums.

However, I am going to assume that you have never been in a worm hole and never lived in null to spell it all out.

In a worm hole, when you notice a cloaky ship you hopefully pick them up on D-scan to know what they are. You will also probably see a worm hole entrance that has appeared because you haven't existed your statics.

Small corp / alliance 10-30 people.

See probes - get safe.
Asks corp and alliance if they are scanning.
Know there is a hostile there.
Send out a scanner ship
Find the new entrance.
Sit on the entrance until they leave (decloak when they exit)
De-stabilise the worm hole.
Spend six hours figuring out if any other ships are in there while remaining cloaked and hidden.

You do not go out, you do not engage because you don't know what you are fighting.
You do not want to get trapped outside the worm hole, you do not want to waste valuable ships, pilots or pods.

Null Sec if cloaked ships disappear from local

Every time they hit a gate they pop up in local when they de-cloak
Cloak ship comes in - get safe.
Wait for them to leave.
Keep waiting for them to leave.
They logged off? Probably a trap. Keep waiting for them to leave.
When they hit gates and pop up in different systems then you might come out.
Spend six hours figuring out if they have covert cyno'ed people into the system.
Probably leave the system or log off and play another game for a few days.

Last things consider doing:
Engage them.
Go ratting
Go mining
Try bait them out.

They probably know what you have, they probably have more and if you feed them kills they keep coming back or they stay there day in and day out.

So, the only tactics that work for worm hole and null defense is overwhelming force or kill denial.

CCP - Building ant hills and magnifying glasses for fat kids

Not even once

EVE is becoming shallow and puerile; it will satisfy neither the veteran nor the "WoW" type crowd in the transition.