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[Insert patch name here] Capitals in High Sec Allowed or not?

Author
Nelli Alariel
Trains Awesomeness
#1 - 2014-12-03 10:03:16 UTC
Hey,

I'd like officially start a discussion for the pros and cons of having capitals in High Sec.

I personally would like to see that happening for multiple reasons:

- Ganking one would be harder but fun (because it would be like killing a freighter, except that the person would lose a few B each time which is good for KillBoard padding lol)
- It makes sense Lore-wise to have them to show CONCORD that WE dominate space and not them (Capsuler supremacy anyone?)

Cons:
- PVE would be so easy with a carrier, but there is ways to balance that Like accelerations gate
- POS wars... Yeah ok, Dreads are OP, but with a good balance for POS modules to actually inflict damage on caps (at the expense of getting a new anti-cap module) its gonna have to wait because a damn lot of POS would die really quickly lol

I'm sure there is other pros and cons to that, but the goal in here is to discuss about why should capitals be allowed or not in high sec.

Refrain from trolling as it does not advance the tread to actually go somewhere.
James Baboli
Warp to Pharmacy
#2 - 2014-12-03 10:11:58 UTC
I'd like to see all capitals allowed to transit highsec via gates, but under similar rules as the veldnaught is under at this point.

Talking more,

Flying crazier,

And drinking more

Making battleships worth the warp

Nelli Alariel
Trains Awesomeness
#3 - 2014-12-03 10:19:19 UTC
I like the idea, but there is always people who will want to use their capitals in order to keep an apex weapon system with them. I agree though that supers and Titans are forbiden to ever go High sec. They are way too powerfull right now to be sent into high sec, but when you see a carrier dying to subcaps, you know that carriers are not that OP and can still be killed. (4BS can kill a carrier in under 10mins, I know, I've done it)
Catherine Laartii
Doomheim
#4 - 2014-12-03 10:21:27 UTC
My thoughts on capitals in hisec:

-Carriers and dreads should be barred from entry into accel gates for lvl 4s. This prevents mission abuse.

-Siege mods on dreads and triage modules would be lowsec-only, and not allowed to activate in hisec space; much in the same way the scripted hictor mod works.

-Supers would still be barred entry into hisec systems. No titans or motherships flying around.

-Big pro would be that fighters could still be assigned to people, so if your friend or alt has a carrier they can help you out with fighters in your mission.

-Gate travel with supers in hisec would be extremely safe, assuming there's no wardecs. The high HP would make carriers excellent armored transports as alternatives to freighters hauling high-value items.

-The market implications would be enormous...having the trade hubs, jita specifically, open for business with capital production with the new industry mechanics would be a bonanza beyond the wildest dreams of nullbloc industry barons, as the massive demand for locally produced capitals would create a gold rush.
The favorable locations of some trade hubs vs others may encourage more local industry in these areas as certain blocs would simply shift their capital production over to major trade hubs since it would be an incredibly simple matter to cyno them into low or null stations once they got into range. The local supply incentive would be far too great to ignore, and would draw even larger flocks of industrialists to places like Jita, Amarr, Hek, etc.

-It would be hilarious for the noobs to undock in one of the starter systems and see giant capital ships floating around or shooting each other outside. One of the loveliest things about this game is the scale, and the size difference from a pod to a dread is impressive, to say the least.
Marcus Gord
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#5 - 2014-12-03 10:48:01 UTC
anyone remember what the original rationale for removing caps from highsec was in the past?

Also, someone correct me if i'm wrong, but cap doctrines like slowcats or pantheon would still be viable even in highsec, right?

that'd make things interesting....

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Rivr Luzade
Coreli Corporation
Pandemic Legion
#6 - 2014-12-03 10:50:14 UTC  |  Edited by: Rivr Luzade
Catherine Laartii wrote:

-Big pro would be that fighters could still be assigned to people, so if your friend or alt has a carrier they can help you out with fighters in your mission.

Good thing is that Fighters can't enter gated missions and most mission fortunately are gated. Big smile (No sarcasm involved.)

Catherine Laartii wrote:

-It would be hilarious for the noobs to undock in one of the starter systems and see giant capital ships floating around or shooting each other outside. One of the loveliest things about this game is the scale, and the size difference from a pod to a dread is impressive, to say the least.

That I do not like at all. It's yet another reason removed from the game to leave High sec. As it stands, you have to go to Low sec or Null sec/W-space to see a capital fly around in its natural habitat. With capitals in High sec, you can just say: "Seen that already in Sehmy or Uitra, nothing special anymore for me. Leave my safe space to see one in action? Nah, not interested."

UI Improvement Collective

My ridicule, heavy criticism and general pale outlook about your or CCP's ideas is nothing but an encouragement to prove me wrong. Give it a try.

Nelli Alariel
Trains Awesomeness
#7 - 2014-12-03 10:52:36 UTC
I would really like to see someone point us the way as when CCP decided that Capitals were going to Low Sec only, I'd like to see the reasoning behind it in detail from a DEV or a CSM.

But yes I agree to see that capitals should not be allowed through lvl 4's, I wouldn't get them assigned fighters either actually for missions.
Aiyshimin
Mea Culpa.
Shadow Cartel
#8 - 2014-12-03 10:53:33 UTC
I think that current situation where a high SP player needs to leave the starter zone in order to fly capitals is good.

Danika Princip
GoonWaffe
Goonswarm Federation
#9 - 2014-12-03 10:55:19 UTC
Assuming T2 guns and all Vs, it'd take 103 tornados to gank my carrier in it's standard fit, with them all shooting into my resist hole and all doing max damage.

That's enough ISK in tornados to buy five carriers. And that's just on the hull price.

Bearing that in mind, how, exactly, do you figure that ganking one would even be possible in highsec outside of special events?
Chribba
Otherworld Enterprises
Otherworld Empire
#10 - 2014-12-03 11:00:45 UTC
Marcus Gord wrote:
anyone remember what the original rationale for removing caps from highsec was in the past?

Also, someone correct me if i'm wrong, but cap doctrines like slowcats or pantheon would still be viable even in highsec, right?

that'd make things interesting....

They were not really removed. CCP forgot/assumed no one would use high-sec stations to build these low-sec only ships. So back in the days we still couldn't use the gates, and not all systems had manufacturing slots (and POS'es couldn't be everywhere).

But they removed the ability to build since the ships were low-sec only, and thus the risk of building them should be applied to low-sec too.

/c

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Nelli Alariel
Trains Awesomeness
#11 - 2014-12-03 21:35:23 UTC
Then, building them in lowsec and having them going to high sec could be still something
baltec1
Bat Country
Pandemic Horde
#12 - 2014-12-03 21:59:32 UTC
Capital reps would make ganking large ehp ships impossible, dreads would make it impossible for small corps to protect their POS, station games with carriers, jita undock blockaded with a boot fleet making undocking a freighter an hour long ordeal of bumping into one carrier then the next.

Rivr Luzade
Coreli Corporation
Pandemic Legion
#13 - 2014-12-03 22:10:41 UTC
baltec1 wrote:
Capital reps would make ganking large ehp ships impossible, dreads would make it impossible for small corps to protect their POS, station games with carriers, jita undock blockaded with a boot fleet making undocking a freighter an hour long ordeal of bumping into one carrier then the next.

Just all the good things High sec is desperately craving for.

UI Improvement Collective

My ridicule, heavy criticism and general pale outlook about your or CCP's ideas is nothing but an encouragement to prove me wrong. Give it a try.

Rowells
Pator Tech School
Minmatar Republic
#14 - 2014-12-03 22:24:55 UTC
That reminds me I have to go get a Titan concordokkened on the test server before the mirror
Nelli Alariel
Trains Awesomeness
#15 - 2014-12-03 22:27:32 UTC
baltec1 wrote:
Capital reps would make ganking large ehp ships impossible, dreads would make it impossible for small corps to protect their POS, station games with carriers, jita undock blockaded with a boot fleet making undocking a freighter an hour long ordeal of bumping into one carrier then the next.



There is always the way of trying to get some modification on how they will be allowed into high sec.
baltec1
Bat Country
Pandemic Horde
#16 - 2014-12-03 22:55:57 UTC
Nelli Alariel wrote:
baltec1 wrote:
Capital reps would make ganking large ehp ships impossible, dreads would make it impossible for small corps to protect their POS, station games with carriers, jita undock blockaded with a boot fleet making undocking a freighter an hour long ordeal of bumping into one carrier then the next.



There is always the way of trying to get some modification on how they will be allowed into high sec.


If you have to nerf them into uselessness then they dont belong in high sec in the first place.
Nelli Alariel
Trains Awesomeness
#17 - 2014-12-03 22:58:54 UTC
Maybe there is a way to balance them then ?
I'm sure CCP will wait until they get around to do the capital rebalance, but in the mean time... could there be a way to balance them so they are not totally useless and they are not too OP as to be an high sec apex weapon
baltec1
Bat Country
Pandemic Horde
#18 - 2014-12-03 23:13:49 UTC
Nelli Alariel wrote:
Maybe there is a way to balance them then ?
I'm sure CCP will wait until they get around to do the capital rebalance, but in the mean time... could there be a way to balance them so they are not totally useless and they are not too OP as to be an high sec apex weapon


Dreads only have one job so no, you cant.
Daichi Yamato
Jabbersnarks and Wonderglass
#19 - 2014-12-04 01:36:08 UTC
id rather this didnt happen, caps suck the fun out of EVE. But CCP said in a dev blog that they'd like it to, and with no restrictions would you believe.

Not looking forward to the day carrier reps take part in station games and dreads are used to run ungated missions and wipe out POS's in a few mins.

EVE FAQ "7.2 CAN I AVOID PVP COMPLETELY? No; there are no systems or locations in New Eden where PvP may be completely avoided"

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Eldwinn
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#20 - 2014-12-04 01:39:39 UTC
No. Image running level 5s in your titan. Firm -1
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