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EVE-O preview - multi-client preview / switcher - v1.18.3

First post First post
Author
Mr Mac
Dark Goliath
#241 - 2016-02-24 06:20:42 UTC
Lucas Kell wrote:
Shame it's now seemingly confirmed as a bannable offence to use this. Was a great tool while it lasted.

Source? Link?
Nat Silverguard
Aideron Robotics
Aideron Robotics.
#242 - 2016-02-24 06:54:47 UTC  |  Edited by: Nat Silverguard
Lucas Kell wrote:
Shame it's now seemingly confirmed as a bannable offence to use this. Was a great tool while it lasted.


here you are again spouting nonsense. the uproar is all about the devblog being vague/unclear. so unless CCP clears things up, this is just a silly assumption.

Just Add Water

Gingar Bread
Doomheim
#243 - 2016-02-24 07:35:11 UTC
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2RWWdIVzjVc

THAT's whats bannable.
L2READ and understand.
Jaantrag
#244 - 2016-02-24 08:14:17 UTC
first post : ..
Quote:
This program is legal under the EULA/ToS as CCP FoxFour states here:
CCP FoxFour wrote:
Please keep the discussion on topic. The legitimacy of this software has already been discussed and doesn't need to be again. Assuming the functionality of the software doesn't change, it is allowed in its current state.



but to be 101% sure if any CCP happends to come by could re-confirm the status ..



to dig into the overlays rule ..

Quote:
However, if any third party application or other software is used to gain any unfair advantage, or for purposes beyond its intended use, or if the application or other software violates other parts of the EULA, we may fully enforce our rights to prohibit such use, including player bans.

We do consider overlays using elements of a second or multiple other EVE clients to be against the rules. It changes the way the game is played and grants the player unfair advantages over other players. For example, having overviews from other EVE clients as overlays on one EVE client would allow a player to get real time intel from all those other game instances without having to switch to the other windows. Similarly, overlays using elements from a second or multiple other EVE clients to allow the player to activate modules etc. on those other game instances without switching to the other client windows are clearly in violation of our rules.



i read fom it u cant use a overlay to gain an advantage from multiple clients .. however eve-o more like uses thumbnails of the full clients so u can see and switch between em .. hek the new launcher has a option to switch between active clients .. and thumbnails .. try useing win+tab keys .. similar things ull see there .. if eve-o is illegal the win+tab key should be banned too :))


EVElopedia < add this to your sig to show u WANT it back

Lucas Kell
Solitude Trading
#245 - 2016-02-24 08:26:55 UTC  |  Edited by: Lucas Kell
Mr Mac wrote:
Source? Link?
This dev blog.

Nat Silverguard wrote:
here you are again spouting nonsense. the uproar is all about the devblog being vague/unclear. so unless CCP clears things up, this is just a silly assumption.
But it's not really, is it. One thing they are clear about is that the ability to see inactive client windows is disallowed as show by them saying:
"For example, having overviews from other EVE clients as overlays on one EVE client would allow a player to get real time intel from all those other game instances without having to switch to the other windows."

EVE-O preview specifically allows you to see inactive windows, that's what it does that makes it great. When they get to the final part they then state:
"Please be aware of the fact that we do a lot of data analysis which grants us insight into behavior patterns and allows us to detect anomalies. In a lot of cases we do not need to know what you do on the client side because looking at the behavior in our very detailed event logs on the server side allows us to see if you have/had an unfair advantage over anybody else including the game environment. We don’t know all the tools out there and what they do exactly - and frankly we don’t care. If you get banned, then this is because the results of what you did and how you potentially gained from it manifested in our server-side logs."

So taken together this states that they find the ability to look at the overviews of inactive windows to be an unfair advantage, and they can't see and indeed don't care what the client actually looks like, they work from the server logs. As eve-o preview gives the same ability and obviously grants an advantage (otherwise why would we use it?) then there's absolutely no way I can see that it wouldn't be a bannable offense to use it.

Gingar Bread wrote:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2RWWdIVzjVc

THAT's whats bannable.
L2READ and understand.
How is that functionally different from having the saw windows tiled with the same infromation shows using eve-o preview, and more importantly how would CCP tell the difference without seeing your screen? In fact, take for example this EVE-O preview setup, how is that not going to give the same advantages? When in space you can clearly see the modules cycling and the cargo filling so you don't have to swap to each window to monitor the status of all 16 windows, you just click the preview when the given client needs attention.

Jaantrag wrote:
first post : ..
Quote:
This program is legal under the EULA/ToS as CCP FoxFour states here:
Be very very careful with thing like this, as CCP have in the past changed their rules without going back and updating those posts simply by overriding them with new decisions. Just because one dev has said in the past that it's OK doesn't mean that going forward that will remain the case, and it doesn't even mean CCP will notify you if that changes.

The Indecisive Noob - EVE fan blog.

Wholesale Trading - The new bulk trading mailing list.

Jaantrag
#246 - 2016-02-24 13:35:40 UTC
Lucas Kell wrote:
[



if u can read past first lines then i did note if a ccp came along to confirm the status of eve-o or trashs it ...


on a short story .. useing Win+tab gives u pretty much the same outcome as eve-o .. will it get banned too ? .. and setting up multiple clients across the screen wizely u can see the modules statuses and whatnots .. the advantage allready starts by useing multiple accounts .. eve-o can be used by everyone so is it really an advantage ?




EVElopedia < add this to your sig to show u WANT it back

Hairpins Blueprint
The Northerners
Northern Coalition.
#247 - 2016-02-24 13:45:24 UTC
I have Wooden laptop.

Is it possible to reduce fps on other windows like with Isboxer?

Main 60 FPS, the rest 5 FPS?
Lucas Kell
Solitude Trading
#248 - 2016-02-24 14:10:27 UTC
Jaantrag wrote:
if u can read past first lines then i did note if a ccp came along to confirm the status of eve-o or trashs it ...
I did read past that, I simply cut the quote down. I understand what you are saying, I'm simply saying don't rely on one EVE dev posting like a year ago as proof that eve-o preview is exempt from the rules.

Jaantrag wrote:
on a short story .. useing Win+tab gives u pretty much the same outcome as eve-o
No it doesn't, since it pulls the focus off of the active client into the DWM. Eve-o preview allows you to be interacting with one eve client while looking at the inactive clients without having to switch to them. You can then respond to an inactive client the moment you see something happening. With wit+tab you need to press that to look at them, you can't just see the previews by default.

Jaantrag wrote:
eve-o can be used by everyone so is it really an advantage ?
It's an advantage against those who don't use it. The fact that it's free doesn't matter. You couldn't make a free bot and say "everyone can use it so it's fair".

The Indecisive Noob - EVE fan blog.

Wholesale Trading - The new bulk trading mailing list.

Makari Aeron
Imperial Shipment
Amarr Empire
#249 - 2016-02-24 14:27:30 UTC
I've asked CCP for a clarification either in this thread or the Dev Blog thread. Hopefully we'll get a response in the next few days.

CCP RedDawn: Ugly people are just playing life on HARD mode. Personally, I'm playing on an INFERNO difficulty.

CCP Goliath: I often believe that the best way to get something done is to shout at the person trying to help you. http://goo.gl/PKGDP

Basil Vulpine
Blueprint Haus
Blades of Grass
#250 - 2016-02-24 15:02:50 UTC
I've probably done a fairly noob mistake here. I edited the XML files and it stopped running. Deleting the XML files makes it run again but it doesn't seem to use the XML files anymore!

A) Apart from XML files in its own folder where else could it be storing settings that I need to nuke?
B) What do I need to avoid when editing the XML to leave them valid? I introduced nothing that wasn't already present on another character's settings.
C) Is there a way to move the preview windows if I remove the borders? this is the main thing I'm likely to be trying to jiggle numbers in the XML file for.


Reproduction steps:
I fired it up and arranged one character for each of my accounts. So far, so good.

I then edited the layout xml files with the plan of duplicating characters within the same account rather than set them up manually.

I shuffled the order of the characters in the client_layout and flat_layout files, also tidied up some pixel differences by copy/pasting the height/width data and the y location of the preview file. This was done with the basic Win10 notepad.

Saved it, fired up eve-o preview and waited. Tried again. No preview, nothing in task manager.
Tried running it as admin, no success.

Deleted the xml files, fired up eve-o and it worked so something I changed in the XML files borked it. As an added bonus deleting the XML files hasn't resulted in it recreating them, it seems to partially remember some of the settings for the program itself though.

Deleting the exe and copying a fresh version from the downloaded archive dosen't fix things either. Searching registry for eve-o didn't yield any saved settings apart from a crash report debug and two compatibility settings. I nuked the compatibility bits.
Makari Aeron
Imperial Shipment
Amarr Empire
#251 - 2016-02-24 16:50:06 UTC
A) it only stores files in those XML files in its own folder.

B) editting the XML files within the bounds of reason shouldn't cause any problems

C) currently, no.

Personally, don't use notepad. It screws with the end of line characters. I'd use notepad++ or wordpad. That might be the problem you're having. Perhaps try running as admin?

Whatever windows 10 did, it royally messed with EVEO Preview. Unfortunately, I have little time to do extracurriculars with how work is at the moment. Hell, I rarely touch EVE these days much do my dismay. At some point I'm going to finish my rewrite of EVE O Preview, but I have no ETA. The last time I touched the code was October.

CCP RedDawn: Ugly people are just playing life on HARD mode. Personally, I'm playing on an INFERNO difficulty.

CCP Goliath: I often believe that the best way to get something done is to shout at the person trying to help you. http://goo.gl/PKGDP

Lucas Kell
Solitude Trading
#252 - 2016-02-24 17:05:31 UTC  |  Edited by: Lucas Kell
Does it not still store the xml in a random appdata folder sometimes? I know it used to have an issue where sometimes it would create a random apddata folder with a bunch of xml files and you had to change the location of the exe file itself to get it to use local xml files again, so failing other things, try copying the exe file and the xml files you've got for it to a new folder and running it from there. I think it's something that happens when you're using some of environment path variables in .NET, or possibly if you're not specifying a root path and just aiming for a file directly.

The Indecisive Noob - EVE fan blog.

Wholesale Trading - The new bulk trading mailing list.

Makari Aeron
Imperial Shipment
Amarr Empire
#253 - 2016-02-24 17:43:20 UTC
Honestly? I don't know. I have never had it do that to me. Then again, I'm not the original author. I merely adopted it when he stepped away.

@Basil Vulpine: I'd recommend doign what Lucas Kell said, move the EXE to a new folder or rename it the folder it is in.

CCP RedDawn: Ugly people are just playing life on HARD mode. Personally, I'm playing on an INFERNO difficulty.

CCP Goliath: I often believe that the best way to get something done is to shout at the person trying to help you. http://goo.gl/PKGDP

Basil Vulpine
Blueprint Haus
Blades of Grass
#254 - 2016-02-24 17:50:00 UTC
Lucas Kell wrote:
Does it not still store the xml in a random appdata folder sometimes? I know it used to have an issue where sometimes it would create a random apddata folder with a bunch of xml files and you had to change the location of the exe file itself to get it to use local xml files again, so failing other things, try copying the exe file and the xml files you've got for it to a new folder and running it from there. I think it's something that happens when you're using some of environment path variables in .NET, or possibly if you're not specifying a root path and just aiming for a file directly.


User/Appdata/Local did indeed have an _ folder with subfolders that were all eve-o preview related. user.cfg was the only file in there. Nuking that hasn't restored XML file creation but did seem to help re-default things.

Renaming the executable redefaults things. Renaming the folder redefaults things.

Neither restores XML files going in to the same folder as the executable.


If it really has put them somewhere random then surely it needs to find them somehow? If I try and use windows search for recently modified XML files Cortana pops up wanting more permissions. It sounds like it may be time to go find a third party search/file indexing tool.


Makari Aeron wrote:
Honestly? I don't know. I have never had it do that to me. Then again, I'm not the original author. I merely adopted it when he stepped away.

@Basil Vulpine: I'd recommend doing what Lucas Kell said, move the EXE to a new folder or rename it the folder it is in.

Thanks for reading and responding. If I can fix what I broke then this looks like it'll be very handy.
Lucas Kell
Solitude Trading
#255 - 2016-02-24 18:49:20 UTC
Basil Vulpine wrote:
User/Appdata/Local did indeed have an _ folder with subfolders that were all eve-o preview related. user.cfg was the only file in there. Nuking that hasn't restored XML file creation but did seem to help re-default things.

Renaming the executable redefaults things. Renaming the folder redefaults things.

Neither restores XML files going in to the same folder as the executable.


If it really has put them somewhere random then surely it needs to find them somehow? If I try and use windows search for recently modified XML files Cortana pops up wanting more permissions. It sounds like it may be time to go find a third party search/file indexing tool.
You could try checking over your xml files to make sure they aren't missing anything. Copy paste each of them into a site like this one, which will validate the XML and make sure It's not badly formatted. It might be that it's failing to load them and giving up.

The Indecisive Noob - EVE fan blog.

Wholesale Trading - The new bulk trading mailing list.

Basil Vulpine
Blueprint Haus
Blades of Grass
#256 - 2016-02-25 00:23:39 UTC
Lucas Kell wrote:
Basil Vulpine wrote:
User/Appdata/Local did indeed have an _ folder with subfolders that were all eve-o preview related. user.cfg was the only file in there. Nuking that hasn't restored XML file creation but did seem to help re-default things.

Renaming the executable redefaults things. Renaming the folder redefaults things.

Neither restores XML files going in to the same folder as the executable.


If it really has put them somewhere random then surely it needs to find them somehow? If I try and use windows search for recently modified XML files Cortana pops up wanting more permissions. It sounds like it may be time to go find a third party search/file indexing tool.
You could try checking over your xml files to make sure they aren't missing anything. Copy paste each of them into a site like this one, which will validate the XML and make sure It's not badly formatted. It might be that it's failing to load them and giving up.


I wiped the ones I edited and a search for files modified today didn't turn up any relevant .xml files on the hard disk. The Eve-o preview folder literally only contains the EXE currently. I did try putting in some data-less XML files too that just had the header and no characters, no joy.
Lucas Kell
Solitude Trading
#257 - 2016-02-26 16:57:00 UTC
Good news.
CCP Grimmi wrote:
Overlays which contain a full, unchanged, EVE Client instance in a view only mode, no matter how large or small they are scaled, like it is done by EVE-O Preview as of today, are fine with us. These overlays do not allow any direct interaction with the EVE Client and you have to bring the respective EVE Client to the front/put the window focus on it, in order to interact with it.


CCP Grimmi wrote:
Having many clients visible at the same time is not something we intend to ban.

The Indecisive Noob - EVE fan blog.

Wholesale Trading - The new bulk trading mailing list.

Makari Aeron
Imperial Shipment
Amarr Empire
#258 - 2016-02-26 22:06:24 UTC
Thanks Lucas Kell. I've updated the OP with the link and the quote.

@Basil Vulpine: I'll try to look into some things on my end this weekend and get back to you on Monday. Your problems are.....interesting to say the least.

CCP RedDawn: Ugly people are just playing life on HARD mode. Personally, I'm playing on an INFERNO difficulty.

CCP Goliath: I often believe that the best way to get something done is to shout at the person trying to help you. http://goo.gl/PKGDP

Iain Cariaba
#259 - 2016-02-27 14:18:17 UTC
Lucas Kell wrote:
Good news.
CCP Grimmi wrote:
Overlays which contain a full, unchanged, EVE Client instance in a view only mode, no matter how large or small they are scaled, like it is done by EVE-O Preview as of today, are fine with us. These overlays do not allow any direct interaction with the EVE Client and you have to bring the respective EVE Client to the front/put the window focus on it, in order to interact with it.


CCP Grimmi wrote:
Having many clients visible at the same time is not something we intend to ban.


I was just about to post and ask the question about this. Thanks for beating me to it, Lucas.
Astrid Farnsworth
Broke and Famous
#260 - 2016-02-28 15:50:36 UTC
Its a good news for all of us now.

"Amateurs talk about tactics, but professionals study logistics." - Gen. Robert H. Barrow, USMC (Commandant of the Marine Corps) noted in 1980**strong text**