Player Features and Ideas Discussion

Why would we need three different types of enemies if they all live in the same category of space?

Also I think you will find that the combination of public group PvE, shiny ships, and areas where everyone can kill each other go together like dynamite and flamethrowers.

second worst idea I've heard about how to change/fix/break incursions this month.
Several fleets would end up with their shattered bits strewn around.

Because it doesn't add risk as it would be implemented, it means that incursions turns into PVP, and so doesn't get run after the first time ISN or another well comped fleet ravages one of the mostly t1 fleets.

A: Incursions already exist in Low & Null...... And get run there sometimes even. Plenty of risk already exists for those who want to take it for the higher rewards Low & Null incursions give.
B: I think you are deluded about 'no risk' in Incursions as it stands, ships are regularly lost to Incursions.
C: I imagine you are deluded about risk of PvE in general, PvE actually accounts for a far larger loss of ships than PvP does. CCP released some stats on that in the last year and the ratio was hugely in PvE's favour as far as ships lost went.

I know. I am a nullsec incursion runner myself, and I used to run them in lowsec way back too. I have never once lost an incursion ship, and literally the only time I have seen ships die in incursions (Excluding hotdrops) is when either the logi disconnect, or they don't bother to broadcast. Even in the latter case, they might still get saved.






So...what does it have to do with wormholes at all if it's all still played out with the usual highsec rules? Or is it linking to a wormhole with only the one exit, and so waiting for CODE, GSF or someone like that to shove a fleet in through it to play with the incursion fleets in a closed little arena type place?

Even a regular incursion can pop anything in well under 30s if you don't bother to broadcast/aren't spotted by logi. That said, if you're not braindead, incursions are pretty much zero risk.

And why should a risk averse nature be encouraged? If you want more rewards, there needs to be a lot more risk.

In the spirit of full disclosure: I am a Training fleet commander with Warp to me Incursions (check my buddy Nickreine's space famous trailer)

Now i have made no secret about my highsec incursion running, YAY for fun low-stress group based things to do.

But if you want to make people take their incursions into a "pvp enabled" space you're going to need to make it worth our while... I mean lets face it most major incursion runners are spacerich like you wouldnt believe, i have in the past bought Pith X hardners "because why use worse ones on anything" and Pithum a- invuls "because refitting my other one is to much work".

Now before i get jumped on, we fit our ships bizarrely expensive because the mechanics CCP puts in place tells us "this is the right way to do it if you want to get paid in a crowded system". I dont want to fly gankbait but thats what the mechanics tell me is "the correct way"... Thus, my primary machariel is never going to leave highsec, and at a couple of billion it is hella less expensive then some other guys i know whos reason for not fitting full meta-14 is "well i don't want to need a whole freighter full of ammo for an extra 40 dps on my vindi".

This leads to a mechanically defined space where in order to fly incursions well you need to fit your ship with "super capital levels of shiny" which by extention means "hella expensively". And since most of us can afford dedicated pvp ships why the hell would we risk our primary expensive ship in a place we might lose it? Now i might like to give lowsec incursions a shot, or go run one on an island, but i can assure you i'd be flying out in a maelstrom or maybe a TFI or something else thats hella cheaper then my main ships...

That said i dont understand this whole "if it isnt a player shooting at you it isnt risk" argument that seems to simmer around the playerbase (and the devs from what i understand)... I've lost ships in incursions, not due to error on anyone's part i just got straight up alphaed by a tcrc where the split aggro decided to refocus on my basilisk. Surely this proves that there is "risk" of losing assets.
But PVE risk is "managed" risk, alot of very clever people have worked hard, and thought harder i should expect, in order to "optimize" our strategies for tackling this specific subset of problems. The only reason incursions are considered as "safe" as they are is because its human nature to want to solve puzzles. And since not much has happened since they got introduced (please CCP can we have 2 more kinds of HQ site? Preferably with semi random spawns like an NRF??) we have gotten very good indeed at solving this problem. But then, the wormholers have solved their PVE problems just as efficiently, and if eve-survival doesnt have a guide up on how to do every single complex out in nullsec i'll eat my fedo...

Eat up, they don't have guides for even one single guristas complex.

(And no, you don't 'need' full x types or whatever on your incursion ****. You can run them with zero losses in T2 fit T1 battleships. Or in AHACs/T3s, or anything else you care to think of if you have enough logi and put out enough dps to break reps. Incursions are a very, very low risk activity.)

Just one point to make here for me (not keen on the OP ideas) but PvP means beating the other folks, this doesn't necessarily mean shooting them so the competition element of getting the kill first in combat anoms/incursions in hisec is just as valid as shooting each other in losec/null/WH. If you fail to take the site first you lose out on the rewards and have wasted your time in the process. That can hurt just as much as losing a ship (or more if you don't really value the ships).

3: Incursion communities are risk averse enough that this means that this content would be ignored if optional, or would only be run by a very small subset of the already smallish incursion community.[/quote]



This is what it come too but no one knows how any game mech will end up. People don't like to be told how game should be played, why they find interesting ways to play it their way.