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Dev blog: A new Era of Clones

First post
Author
Algathas
Swamp Panthers
SONS of BANE
#161 - 2014-12-03 01:25:51 UTC
"Death Matters..." .. not anymore in EVE... I joined eve partly because it had things like XP loss and was greatly disappointed when I first found out about this update. Other games are boring because there is no risk, and EVE is heading that way.

So now it would be more punishing to not pod someone so that they have to fly back to their home base. Except that now there is no loss from being podded so the person will just self-destruct. Welcome to less meaningful PVP with less choices.

If this change goes through, please remove self destructing of pods outside of station. At least then we can have a "choice" to either pod them to blow up implants or to not pod them and make them fly 20 jumps home. At least that is reasonable since we cant slow an enemy down isk wise anymore.
Rain6637
GoonWaffe
Goonswarm Federation
#162 - 2014-12-03 01:29:50 UTC
Karl Hobb wrote:
Ralph King-Griffin wrote:
100,000 ISK is trivial
I crap 100,000 ISK

how often can you crap. is there a way to make you crap faster? perhaps it's possible for you to crap several times at once? even if it's just you, if you can automate that and do it 23/7 it will add up. I'm thinking maybe we can work something out to both our benefit. lemme know.
Karl Hobb
Imperial Margarine
#163 - 2014-12-03 01:33:13 UTC
Rain6637 wrote:
Karl Hobb wrote:
Ralph King-Griffin wrote:
100,000 ISK is trivial
I crap 100,000 ISK
how often can you crap. is there a way to make you crap faster? perhaps it's possible for you to crap several times at once? even if it's just you, if you can automate that and do it 23/7 it will add up. I'm thinking maybe we can work something out to both our benefit. lemme know.
I'm pretty regular, but I'd love your help working something out.

A professional astro-bastard was not available so they sent me.

M1k3y Koontz
Speaker for the Dead
Stay Feral
#164 - 2014-12-03 01:36:49 UTC
Sven Viko VIkolander wrote:
This is a fantastic change. Has been suggested for years. The mechanic primarily harms newer players. There are no good arguments against it. Etc. etc.. bravo.

I will tell you exactly what needs to be changed after this, though: Jump clones need to be significantly changed, so that jumping in the same system to switch implants is completely removed from jumping across the galaxy for fast travel. The whole "clones as specialized implant sets" system and "clone as fast travel" mechanic need to be completely separated.

Along with that, you need to allow for multiple clones in a single station. THEN, you need to allow clones to be moved by players, so that if I want to deploy to an area I don't have to spend days jumping to each of my clones and moving them, instead I can put them all in a ship and take the huge risk to fly them to my destination.

Those changes are at the top of my list for improvements to EVE by a wide margin.


This. But also, dont stop with sov changes and POS changes, pleeeaaasssee with the POS changes!

How much herp could a herp derp derp if a herp derp could herp derp.

Peoke
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#165 - 2014-12-03 01:46:54 UTC
now that there is no cost whats to stop entire alliances changing thier clone location and self destructing to travel across the galaxy. you can bypass jump fatigue by just setting clone locations. was this even discussed.
fukier
Gallente Federation
#166 - 2014-12-03 01:47:43 UTC  |  Edited by: fukier
My Idea for player made clones.

So now that there is no longer a payment for loosing a clone based on Skill points there is a loss of isk sink.

So i would propose that clones are made by players using PI materials. CLone vat bays would be upgraded to be usefull and there would be the reintroduction of the mothership which acts as a mobile base for wh space.

now why should ther be variation in clones?

well its simple its called faction implants and hardware and jump clone time.

My idea is you add special clone bpc for faction loot that allows you to manufacture pirate faction clones that allow you to install pirate faction inplants.

without one of these clones you cant install lets say snake or slave implants. I would then add some sort of isk sink in the manufacturing prosses for clones that replace the current metric of clone upgrades.

also there could be a clone that allows you to jump clone ever 12 hours but cant have harware upgrades and only up to plus two implants for attribute points.

i would totally like to get a shadow serpentis clone or a true sansha clone or angel.
At the end of the game both the pawn and the Queen go in the same box.
MeBiatch
GRR GOONS
#167 - 2014-12-03 01:53:06 UTC
fukier wrote:
My Idea for player made clones.

So now that there is no longer a payment for loosing a clone based on Skill points there is a loss of isk sink.

So i would propose that clones are made by players using PI materials. CLone vat bays would be upgraded to be usefull and there would be the reintroduction of the mothership which acts as a mobile base for wh space.

now why should ther be variation in clones?

well its simple its called faction implants and hardware and jump clone time.

My idea is you add special clone bpc for faction loot that allows you to manufacture pirate faction clones that allow you to install pirate faction inplants.

without one of these clones you cant install lets say snake or slave implants. I would then add some sort of isk sink in the manufacturing prosses for clones that replace the current metric of clone upgrades.

also there could be a clone that allows you to jump clone ever 12 hours but cant have harware upgrades and only up to plus two implants for attribute points.

i would totally like to get a shadow serpentis clone or a true sansha clone or angel.



how about variation in clones too like low grade standard and high end that separates the variations even more.

There are no stupid Questions... just stupid people... CCP Goliath wrote:

Ugh ti-di pooping makes me sad.

Jack Tronic
borkedLabs
#168 - 2014-12-03 02:02:47 UTC  |  Edited by: Jack Tronic
Algathas wrote:
"Death Matters..." .. not anymore in EVE... I joined eve partly because it had things like XP loss and was greatly disappointed when I first found out about this update. Other games are boring because there is no risk, and EVE is heading that way.

So now it would be more punishing to not pod someone so that they have to fly back to their home base. Except that now there is no loss from being podded so the person will just self-destruct. Welcome to less meaningful PVP with less choices.

If this change goes through, please remove self destructing of pods outside of station. At least then we can have a "choice" to either pod them to blow up implants or to not pod them and make them fly 20 jumps home. At least that is reasonable since we cant slow an enemy down isk wise anymore.



Only 0.0001% of people lost XP in EVE. Those that did only because they slipped up, everyone else has the boring task of automating the clone grade in muscle memory. If its something everyone does by default, why bother? Nobody ever lacked the isk. Implant loss doesn't mean much either.


Quote:
If this change goes through, please remove self destructing of pods outside of station.


They already did, you can "suicide" inside stations instantly.
Natalia Srebnaja
Escalated.
OnlyFleets.
#169 - 2014-12-03 02:11:45 UTC
Aliventi wrote:
[b]First: Awesome.

(...)

GET RID OF ATTRIBUTES. Attributes, attribute implants, and remaps do far more harm than good. A simple everyone trains at 2700 sp/hour is a far better system.


What a wonderfully well put together post!
Algathas
Swamp Panthers
SONS of BANE
#170 - 2014-12-03 02:11:58 UTC
Jack Tronic wrote:
Algathas wrote:
"Death Matters..." .. not anymore in EVE... I joined eve partly because it had things like XP loss and was greatly disappointed when I first found out about this update. Other games are boring because there is no risk, and EVE is heading that way.

So now it would be more punishing to not pod someone so that they have to fly back to their home base. Except that now there is no loss from being podded so the person will just self-destruct. Welcome to less meaningful PVP with less choices.

If this change goes through, please remove self destructing of pods outside of station. At least then we can have a "choice" to either pod them to blow up implants or to not pod them and make them fly 20 jumps home. At least that is reasonable since we cant slow an enemy down isk wise anymore.



Only 0.0001% of people lost XP in EVE. Those that did only because they slipped up, everyone else has the boring task of automating the clone grade in muscle memory. If its something everyone does by default, why bother? Nobody ever lacked the isk. Implant loss doesn't mean much either.


Quote:
If this change goes through, please remove self destructing of pods outside of station.


They already did, you can "suicide" inside stations instantly.


I think you did not understand what I was saying at all. In null most pods have no implants. So in war it was a good idea to pod them to cause your enemy more loss and slow them down. Now, since you can self destruct in space *and* in station, and you have no loss from that, it is actually preferable when you lose your ship to also be podded, since it gets you home faster. If you don't get podded you can just self destruct in space, aka getting you home faster.

The idea about not allowing self destruct of pods in space (and only allowing it in station) gives the choice to either pod the person (giving you a small chance of killing some implants but not likely) or making them fly their pod home, knowing they must fly home because they cant self destruct. Otherwise, the choice to pod or not pod is meaningless since they will just self destruct in space anyway.
Distant Soul
Doomheim
#171 - 2014-12-03 02:29:07 UTC
Natalia Srebnaja wrote:
Aliventi wrote:
[b]First: Awesome.

(...)

GET RID OF ATTRIBUTES. Attributes, attribute implants, and remaps do far more harm than good. A simple everyone trains at 2700 sp/hour is a far better system.


What a wonderfully well put together post!



this is the dumbest thing ive ever heard. must be a butthurt WoW player who doesnt like the current system.
Warde Guildencrantz
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#172 - 2014-12-03 02:29:49 UTC
Natalia Srebnaja wrote:
Aliventi wrote:
[b]First: Awesome.

(...)

GET RID OF ATTRIBUTES. Attributes, attribute implants, and remaps do far more harm than good. A simple everyone trains at 2700 sp/hour is a far better system.


What a wonderfully well put together post!


I see it this way, instead of attribute enhancers, the first 5 slots should be exclusively for implants that promote a style of play (Like snakes, slaves, etc. for tacklers, armor brawlers and solo shield pvpers respectively)

The other 5 should be for boosting of random skill attributes as they are now. However, there should be an 11th slot just for pirate omegas. It's fairly annoying that certain slot 6 implants cant be combined with a full set of pirate implants. (For example, you can get the 8% armor implant in your head at the same time as a full set of slaves, but not shaqil's speed enhancer (8% velocity) at the same time as snake implants. I find that a little bit of an annoyance.)

TunDraGon ~ Low sec piracy since 2003 ~ Youtube ~ Join Us

Winter Archipelago
Autumn Industrial Enterprises
#173 - 2014-12-03 03:33:33 UTC
Peoke wrote:
now that there is no cost whats to stop entire alliances changing thier clone location and self destructing to travel across the galaxy. you can bypass jump fatigue by just setting clone locations. was this even discussed.

You can only change you clone location remotely once per year. You can change it whenever you please, so long as you're actually in the station you want to be in. You have to fly there, first, though.
Querns
Science and Trade Institute
Caldari State
#174 - 2014-12-03 03:36:44 UTC
Peoke wrote:
now that there is no cost whats to stop entire alliances changing thier clone location and self destructing to travel across the galaxy. you can bypass jump fatigue by just setting clone locations. was this even discussed.

They changed it in Phoebe so that you can no longer set your clone station remotely to any station. You can set it to your corporation's HQ once a year, or to the station you're currently in at any time.

Podjumping is, essentially, neutered.

This post was crafted by the wormhole expert of the Goonswarm Economic Warfare Cabal, the foremost authority on Eve: Online economics and gameplay.

Aramis Rosicrux
Ordo Rosa Crux Templaris
#175 - 2014-12-03 03:58:40 UTC
I like this change.

The pilots whining about the loss of their SP, they need to adjust their attitude.

In the real world, I spent seven years getting certified in a technology called "DEC-VAX". Then, the company got lost in a buyout by a conglomerate, and now all my real life skills are lost.

I HAD to re-educate. Fortunately, I got into automation engineering, so I found an alternative, but it did hurt my real world earnings.

So having to scramble to gain skills in a game?

No problem.

Aramis Rosicrux

Sinq Laison Bitter Vet

Big smile

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Bagrat Skalski
Koinuun Kotei
#176 - 2014-12-03 08:22:59 UTC
Algathas wrote:

If this change goes through, please remove self destructing of pods outside of station. At least then we can have a "choice" to either pod them to blow up implants or to not pod them and make them fly 20 jumps home. At least that is reasonable since we cant slow an enemy down isk wise anymore.


Can't do, because of wormholes.
Bagrat Skalski
Koinuun Kotei
#177 - 2014-12-03 08:29:05 UTC  |  Edited by: Bagrat Skalski
Winter Archipelago wrote:
Peoke wrote:
now that there is no cost whats to stop entire alliances changing thier clone location and self destructing to travel across the galaxy. you can bypass jump fatigue by just setting clone locations. was this even discussed.

You can only change you clone location remotely once per year. You can change it whenever you please, so long as you're actually in the station you want to be in. You have to fly there, first, though.


Why even change the location remotely? New guys wanting to get to null sec should be fair play jumping everywhere and tasting EVE how it truly tastes just from the begining. A lot of things to learn: earlier = better.

And don't tell me that you can't possibly do that with new player, with rokie ship, on first try. If you have knowledge, you can. I have done it with 1 day old character with starting skills in rokie ship, just to see titanomachy when it was placed in the game, I jumped thru all of null sec from High sec, I jumped thru bubbled and camped gate in a pod, but I have done it to titanomachy. Of course you have to know what to do, and you can do it together with your scout from alliance and on coms. A great journey and story to tell after you made it, if you are a new guy.
Brian Harrelstein
Science and Trade Institute
Caldari State
#178 - 2014-12-03 09:41:34 UTC
I get the feeling that CCP wants to remove everything from the game. First they start gutting modules, then they gutted the jump drive, and now clones...

BTW: thanks for turning all my meta 4 small missile launchers into "compact launchers". Now they're not worth anything. Good to know I'm not getting reimbursed for those either...

So what's next? Insurance? We all know nobody uses that either.
Alris Soben
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#179 - 2014-12-03 10:11:36 UTC
I'm looking at their implementation of the Jump fatique and imagine (in horror) how they are already crafting a new icon for the death fatigue timer.

The Mouseovermessage shows:
"Constantly dying strains your mind. You wake up in your new clone with a massive headache. Going back into your pod and undock is the last thing you want to do at the moment."

5 Hour cooldown before you can undock again. Have Fun.

We definitely need more timers Ugh
Corraidhin Farsaidh
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#180 - 2014-12-03 10:16:39 UTC
I look forward to seeing how the clone changes transpire but would be against being able to harvest implants. Having created implants from BPCs I can say that they use a fair chunk of PI materials in their production. Also many implants are dropped as loot from missions/deadspace etc rats. Allowing implants to be recovered would hit both of these areas, the loot values especially.

It would also make nil sense in lore terms. The implant is stuck into your brain. To be able to function it would have to use some kind of custom interface/nanotech that 'grows' into your brain and is absolutely unique to you. On top of that your brain is flash-fried by a very powerful laser when you get podded which would cause immeasurable damage to delicate nanostructures.

*If* this were to become a thing it would be better to allow players to use Reverse Engineering on corpses to basically disect the skull and implants to drop out a BPC for the implant (probably a lower grade one than the original due to damage). Also change loot drops to be BPC's mainly with actual implants being rare or not at all (Other than maybe from high level rats). This would then create a market in BPC sales and also add impetus to the PI market and also increase options for science characters.