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Dev blog: A new Era of Clones

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CCP Phantom
C C P
C C P Alliance
#1 - 2014-12-02 15:15:46 UTC  |  Edited by: CCP Phantom
With the Rhea release on December 9 we will see changes to clones and what is happening with you skillpoints when you get pod killed.

The most important changes are:
  • Removal of all clone grades
  • No general loss of skillpoints upon death (special cases, like T3 cruiser aside)
  • Setting your home station will cost 100,000 ISK instead of 5400 ISK.

Read more about these changes, why they are introduced and what other development we can expect regarding clones and death in CCP Terminus' latest dev blog A new Era of Clones.



Addendum
As some people have been asking, clone grade purchases made before Rhea cannot be reimbursed.

CCP Phantom - Senior Community Developer
Michal Jita
Lords Of The Universe
#2 - 2014-12-02 15:21:22 UTC
Looking forward to see what death brings in future ...

Edit: First :)
knobber Jobbler
State War Academy
Caldari State
#3 - 2014-12-02 15:21:59 UTC
Confirming I've never lost JDCV at least twice.
Bariolage
Control F9
#4 - 2014-12-02 15:22:29 UTC
I really appreciate these meaningful changes guys.
Quintessen
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#5 - 2014-12-02 15:30:00 UTC
Good change overall. Now I'd like to see other penalties removed that prevent people from playing the game itself. I'm thinking standings penalties for missions for factions you care about. I'm thinking about standings loss from faction warfare.
Adunh Slavy
#6 - 2014-12-02 15:34:32 UTC
Yay!

Necessity is the plea for every infringement of human freedom. It is the argument of tyrants; it is the creed of slaves.  - William Pitt
Winter Archipelago
Autumn Industrial Enterprises
#7 - 2014-12-02 15:37:37 UTC  |  Edited by: Winter Archipelago
Time to buy up a thousand frigs, and then clog the Thera undocks with my wrecks and corpses!

For the Newbies: The 8 Golden Rules - The Magic 14 Skills - Finding the Right Corp - EVE University Wiki
Harvey James
The Sengoku Legacy
#8 - 2014-12-02 15:37:49 UTC
should definitely remove the SP loss on T3's

T3's need to be versatile so no rigs are necessary ... they should not have OP dps and tank

ABC's should be T2, remove drone assist, separate HAM's and Torps range, -3 HS for droneboats

Nerf web strength, Make the blaster Eagle worth using
Dierdra Vaal
Interstellar Stargate Syndicate
#9 - 2014-12-02 15:44:33 UTC
I'm going to lose so many rifters in rhea

Veto #205

Director Emeritus at EVE University

CSM1 delegate, CSM3 chairman and CSM5 vice-chairman

Evesterdam organiser and CSM Vote Match founder

Co-Author of the Galactic Party Planning Guide
witchking42
Doomheim
#10 - 2014-12-02 15:44:50 UTC  |  Edited by: witchking42
Quote:
Note: Subsystem skills related to T3 Strategic Cruisers will still work as they did before. This is because their skill loss is a component of the ship balancing itself. This may be revisited in the future.


Looks good, and please revisit this sooner rather than later.
Valterra Craven
#11 - 2014-12-02 15:46:55 UTC  |  Edited by: Valterra Craven
You know what's funny? I've made this exact same argument to Greyscale et al about skillpoints:

Quote:
Skill point acquisition is very much tied to your subscription and the real money you spent on the game, so taking some of their skill points away can feel like wasted money to the player.


You know whats worse? When that logical argument is ignored by the devs every time they change a skill. One of the biggest changes I can remember is the change to the ME % in industry recently. Players complained and complained about losing something valuable and replacing it with something worthless. And you know what? You guys didn't have a single GOOD argument for why you shouldn't have refunded everyone's SP.

In my opinion every time a skill is changed regardless of how trivial or major, you should refund the SP of that skill. Period. No questions asked. SP is simply too intertwined with the subscription costs to treat changes to them so nonchalantly.

Edit: I found the post I where I made this argument earlier:
https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=4812870#post4812870
UFS Fenix
United Tactical Operations and Mercenary Services
United Systems of Avarice
#12 - 2014-12-02 15:51:05 UTC
What is this? The pussy convention? So much crying, Lets just remove everything that makes eve challenging. This change and the changes to awoxing really make me want to re-consider eve. Us hardcore pilots grinded missions so we could put poses in High sec, you guys changed this. Us veterans made extra isk and for over 7 years kept our clones up to date, you changed that. Why don't you remove all standings for factions so we can run lvl 4s from day one and get good refining from day one. Why do we have pods with the current changes? Just remove the pods and make us normal eve pilots... while your at it , get rid of everything else that adds risk to the game. We can just make the ships respawn with fittings in our hangers after we get blown up.

Change the name from eve-online to wow-online because that's where things are headed.

What ever happened to the other changes you promised years ago? Walking in stations never went anywhere, I cant manipulate anything in my captains quarters, doors don't close, cant enter main part of station, beds are useless...

Eve is about the risk/vs Reward. Removing risk, removes the fun. The cap changes last month I thought were great, things like this clone change make eve less risky and therefore less fun.

Yes you can have my stuff, for the trolls. It seems like in order to bring in more scrubs into eve you alienate the Veterans.
Damjan Fox
Fox Industries and Exploration
#13 - 2014-12-02 15:51:52 UTC
Quote:
should definitely remove the SP loss on T3's

I think that's exactly, what we are going to get, with the Tech3 rebalance.

From the dev blog:
Quote:
Subsystem skills related to T3 Strategic Cruisers will still work as they did before. This is because their skill loss is a component of the ship balancing itself. This may be revisited in the future.

Proposal: >>> New Inventory / Item Hangar <<<
Helison
Times of Ancar
#14 - 2014-12-02 15:52:27 UTC
Sad
While I agree that the process of upgrading clones was not the best experience, I dislike how much the death penalty is reduced with this change. Now it will be better in most cases to just self-destruct the pod after losing a ship than trying to get the pod safe. Please do not continue this path of making EVE easier and easier!
CCP Terminus
C C P
C C P Alliance
#15 - 2014-12-02 15:53:27 UTC
Valterra Craven wrote:
You know what's funny? I've made this exact same argument to Greyscale et al about skillpoints:

Quote:
Skill point acquisition is very much tied to your subscription and the real money you spent on the game, so taking some of their skill points away can feel like wasted money to the player.


You know whats worse? When that logical argument is ignored by the devs every time they change a skill. One of the biggest changes I can remember is the change to the ME % in industry recently. Players complained and complained about losing something valuable and replacing it with something worthless. And you know what? You guys didn't have a single GOOD argument for why you shouldn't have refunded everyone's SP.

In my opinion every time a skill is changed regardless of how trivial or major, you should refund the SP of that skill. Period. No questions asked. SP is simply too intertwined with the subscription costs to treat changes to them so nonchalantly.



Your point did not go undebated in the office.

@CCP_Terminus // Game Designer // Team Size Matters
GeeShizzle MacCloud
#16 - 2014-12-02 15:55:50 UTC
CCP wrote:
... But Death is Just the Beginning
These medical clone changes are just the beginning of a larger project revolving around clones and their purpose in EVE. While we are still in the early stages of design, the Rhea changes are our first step towards the future possibilities of clones.


inb4 clones are an item that can be built/grown and have to be constantly resupplied in nullsec stations for people to wake up in, else they wake up in the nearest npc station with clone facilities.
Phoenix Jones
Small-Arms Fire
#17 - 2014-12-02 15:56:06 UTC
I remember screaming about that myself as I tended to build out fuel blocks to power my pos. that move kinda screwed me and a few others :-P

Yaay!!!!
l0rd carlos
the king asked me to guard the mountain
#18 - 2014-12-02 15:57:52 UTC
UFS Fenix wrote:
What is this? The ***** convention? So much crying, Lets just remove everything that makes eve challenging.

How did jump upgrade make the game challenging?

Youtube Channel about Micro and Small scale PvP with commentary: Fleet Commentary by l0rd carlos
Valterra Craven
#19 - 2014-12-02 15:58:00 UTC
CCP Terminus wrote:


Your point did not go undebated in the office.


Fair enough, any comments as to how the debate went and what actually decided it?
Harvey James
The Sengoku Legacy
#20 - 2014-12-02 16:01:05 UTC
CCP Terminus wrote:
Valterra Craven wrote:
You know what's funny? I've made this exact same argument to Greyscale et al about skillpoints:

Quote:
Skill point acquisition is very much tied to your subscription and the real money you spent on the game, so taking some of their skill points away can feel like wasted money to the player.


You know whats worse? When that logical argument is ignored by the devs every time they change a skill. One of the biggest changes I can remember is the change to the ME % in industry recently. Players complained and complained about losing something valuable and replacing it with something worthless. And you know what? You guys didn't have a single GOOD argument for why you shouldn't have refunded everyone's SP.

In my opinion every time a skill is changed regardless of how trivial or major, you should refund the SP of that skill. Period. No questions asked. SP is simply too intertwined with the subscription costs to treat changes to them so nonchalantly.



Your point did not go undebated in the office.


i hope the against side won comfortably, you know when you train something it could be liable too change you just hope for the better, you can't insure against everything, eve is a game of risk

T3's need to be versatile so no rigs are necessary ... they should not have OP dps and tank

ABC's should be T2, remove drone assist, separate HAM's and Torps range, -3 HS for droneboats

Nerf web strength, Make the blaster Eagle worth using
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