EVE General Discussion

You thinking it means very little, if not literally nothing. You've demonstrated time and again you don't know enough about this game to come to a conclusion like this, not to mention how often you contradict yourself. If you want a PVP-free highsec then EVE is not for you, it's that simple, because EVE is in its entirety and in every aspect a PVP game.

Everyone who is efficiency driven would move their ISK generating activities to highsec in the short to medium term. Then there'd be nothing to fight over in low/WH/null, so they'd all become as empty as non-FW lowsec.

The people that level up their Raven in highsec missions would quit after a few months out of boredom.

I think EVE would survive two years with completely safe highsec. I don't think it would survive four.




If people want 100% interaction free PVE in EVE, they can get it on the test server. Noone can meddle with them while they run their sites - and their running sites cannot hurt anyone else because the economy is disconnected from the main server.

I can very much confirm this. In fact, those days amounted to my only personal experience with mining. I was aspiring to become a pvper during those early days, and in fact more or less started out my EVE career in 0.0, plucking away at rocks in a Brutix.

Then, as time passed and CCP implemented various "changes" to the game, I moved to high-sec full time, because I realized that the opportunities for wealth and fun (taking wealth away from others) were much greater there. Kind of says a lot about the evolution of the game.

So, we have the bumping mechanic that allows a single player to keep another in space indefinitely, and for the suicide ganks to happen without sec status penalty for the bumper.
Then we have the cost of ganking so low that it allows gank fleets to effectively shut down a trade route with no risk or huge cost involved, for no apparent reason other than harassment.
Then we have the bounty/kill right system, which for people with -10 sec status simply doesn't work, because:
1. They are shoot on sight anywhere, anyway.
2. They fly cheap ships like a Catalyst or a Tornado.

So, several broken game mechanics are involved in this, and then we have the players being told it's their fault when the game heavily favors the gankers and leaves no chance for the peaceful players.

Someone would say "There is no place for peaceful activities, the game is dangerous". Well, it is, but it's also a sandbox, which means anyone should be able to play it the way they like. If you want to be a happy carebear, you should be able to do so, and there should be a place in game which allows you that. Currently a group of people is destroying the sandbox nature of the game, trying to dictate their own rules and preventing entire styles of gameplay.

No it doesn't. It's nowhere near that. Let's look at the first kill I posted:
https://beta.eve-kill.net/kill/42791439/
7 people, 4 of them in a Catalyst, which costs 15m fitted, and then 3 in Talos, which costs below 120m fitted.

Right. You realize that 3 T2 expanders cut your EHP almost in half, right? I said standard freighter. Also, I'm not sure what's up with those Taloses, but 32,000 damage is a huge outlier. In the amount of time you have to work with in a .5, which is around 17 seconds, the average amount of overheated damage that you can pop out is around 24,000. A standard Freighter's EHP is around 225,000 (Obelisk: 137.5k hull, ~70k armor, ~20k shields), which means that you'd need at least 9 Taloses, on average, to guarantee a kill. Each one costs 110 million to set up, with a sunk cost of 90 million if half of the fittings are recovered, and they usually aren't. That's a sunk cost of almost 1 billion ISK, compared to an insured freighter's sunk cost of around 900 million.

You see, I'm involved in these things, and knowing and understanding the math behind them is very important for me. And thus, you're wrong.


I see a lot of assumptions here. You have any data to back these claims up? Because according to my calculations, RvB is responsible for a daily average of about 350 ship destructions, with a daily destroyed value of around 5 billion ISK. Compare that to just the Marmite Collective, which averaged 325 daily kills in November, with a daily destroyed value of almost 30 billion ISK. And that's just one of hundreds of high-sec organizations conducting wars.

90% indeed.

I can do this all day, guys. I have all the research in my pocket.

Catalysts are supremely ineffective for conducting ganks at gates. If you don't believe me, I recommend you go and try it out.

However, generally speaking, destroyers are very efficient for ganking. You can blame CCP for that, and not the players. Even despite the fact that the biggest balancing factor for destroyers is the requirement to field very large amounts of pilots.

This whole discussion remind me on the commercial spot in one Simpsons episode.

TIC TAC TOE; X vs O.

No idea why, but this picture cant get out of my head when i read this here :).

And...

I'm looking at their boards right now, and the average is currently 23 kills per hour, or 555 kills per day. This includes out-of-contest kills as well, such as against other entities who are at war with them, low-sec/gank losses, etc etc. I have no idea where you're getting your info from.

Yes, 555/day is bigger than their 325/day average over the past 22 months, but these numbers obviously oscillate, and the end of a year has traditionally been a period of higher activity. The daily combined average for RvB during the past 22 months is 325 kills, equating to 5.15 billion ISK per day. This doesn't even begin to compare with the sum total of the destruction that happens in all other high-sec wars in EVE on a daily basis.

PS: ISK destroyed is a much better metric than kill volume. And with respect to that metric, RvB accounts for an even more significantly smaller percentage of high-sec war destruction.