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The case against Thera

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SCV'Argos
TheMurk
#61 - 2014-12-01 22:38:51 UTC  |  Edited by: SCV'Argos
I think Thera should not allow any type of clonejumping except with usage of Rorquals. Any automated transfer to Thera means it will become an established "deathmatch" arena, which I hate the very idea of (in eve).
In my opinion Thera should be a place only available through player interaction. Sort of a lawless den system where nobody can come and go without risking his life on the way. Clonejumping inside the stations ruins that.
Caviar Liberta
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#62 - 2014-12-01 22:45:00 UTC  |  Edited by: Caviar Liberta
Jade Blackwind wrote:
Vol Arm'OOO wrote:


Thera functions like a battle zone. Its clear purpose is to promote availability of instant pvp, i.e. you log into Thera and get fights.

(...)

P.S. I am aware, BTW that battle zones are typically "instanced" whereas Thera is not. The analogy is not perfect, but IMO the effect of Thera should be the same as a battle zone.


...Delete FW? Also, ban RvB? Hint: instant PvP is already organized by the players and is fun.


Yes you just have to hate those FW complexes that force people to either ship down or ship up to engage in PVP right

But back on topic. I'm thinking Thera will do just fine.
SpaceSaft
Almost Dangerous
Wolves Amongst Strangers
#63 - 2014-12-01 23:01:41 UTC
I'm not really pro thera since I don't see the point to it - yet.

But I'm open for surprises. If anything I'm slightly annoyed that it's not as awesome as other things could have been.

I have absolutely no idea why thera is killing eve because instant pvp though. The idea with arenas and match making was that you get a somewhat fair match within a reasonable time.

Thera is not going to be like that.

If people do bother to come to thera, which we will see, it's going to be camp central, if people don't come, well I don't know what that's going to be like. In any case it's not going to be fair and if people don't come you might have to wait longer than it would take to get to the next FW plex or highsec lowsec or highsec nullsec gate camp.

If it ends but being a gimmick system I won't care because there are 100 other wh system we're getting in this patch plus a whole lot other stuff.
Gogela
Epic Ganking Time
CODE.
#64 - 2014-12-01 23:28:00 UTC
SCV'Argos wrote:
I think Thera should not allow any type of clonejumping except with usage of Rorquals. Any automated transfer to Thera means it will become an established "deathmatch" arena, which I hate the very idea of (in eve).
In my opinion Thera should be a place only available through player interaction. Sort of a lawless den system where nobody can come and go without risking his life on the way. Clonejumping inside the stations ruins that.

You are boxing people into something way too specific, imho. There needs to be lots of diverse draw to Thera to get lots of players in there, which I think has been accomplished. One of the big draws is simply the existence of station services in WH space. Also, Thera isn't the only shattered planet system. There are going to be many other ones CCP can tweak and retool for different purposes. I haven't read much of anything on the other systems. There's no telling (from what I know) what they are going to look like.

Signatures should be used responsibly...
Herzog Wolfhammer
Sigma Special Tactics Group
#65 - 2014-12-01 23:42:32 UTC  |  Edited by: Herzog Wolfhammer
CCP Greyscale wrote:
I am totally sold on this argument.

Thera is cancelled! Next stop: deleting Syndicate and Providence.



I LOLed


I do fear that with dictor bubbles it's going to be "Oh look I found The.... OMGWTFBBQclonevat".

Then the next time "Oh look, Thera. Never mind. Not feeding my ships to someone's kill board".

Bring back DEEEEP Space!
Chopper Rollins
Republic Military School
Minmatar Republic
#66 - 2014-12-02 00:02:30 UTC
*engage neckbeard omniscience mode*
AKCHUALLY
I'm interested to see what players do with Thera, hopefully something unexpected, akin to what happened with wormholes. Never intended to be lived in for long or farmed much, they became a whole 'nother mode of play.



Goggles. Making me look good. Making you look good.
Mharius Skjem
Guardians of the Underworld
#67 - 2014-12-02 00:28:47 UTC
CCP Greyscale wrote:
I am totally sold on this argument.

Thera is cancelled! Next stop: deleting Syndicate and Providence.


But that will crash the market in solitude... sob, sniffle...


wwwwwwwhhhhhhhhhhhaaaaaaaaaaaahhhhhhh.

The op is wrong.

A recovering btter vet,  with a fresh toon and a determination to like everything that CCP does to Eve...

Don't take me too seriously though, I like to tease a bit on the forums, but that's only because I love you...
Yonis Kador
KADORCORP
#68 - 2014-12-02 01:55:48 UTC
OP, if you accept two things: 1) that content in EVE is player-generated and 2) player interaction = content, then, Thera will not kill EVE. Sure, your game may change. Every change to the client carries that potential for all of us. But if players are still interacting and generating content, it's unlikely to matter where it occurs. If players spend so much time in Thera that vacuums form, what fills them will = content. I'm of the camp that almost anything which facilitates player interaction is probably beneficial to pgc quality.

Besides, if Thera should somehow threaten the game, I'm sure CCP will limit its usefulness until it doesn't.

I'll be waiting to see if Thera generates enough "content" to affect mineral prices.

*fingers crossed*

YK
Rain6637
GoonWaffe
Goonswarm Federation
#69 - 2014-12-02 01:59:42 UTC
CCP, when you find yourself wondering why wormholes don't stick, just know it's due to the lack of outposts.

Help, I can't download EVE

President of the Commissar Kate Fanclub

PLEX: A Giffen good? (It's 1B?)
Destiny Corrupted
Deadly Viper Kitten Mitten Sewing Company
Senpai's Afterschool Anime and Gaming Club
#70 - 2014-12-02 02:18:35 UTC  |  Edited by: Destiny Corrupted
Shizuken wrote:
As to the first point, I dont see this as a bad thing. Aside from fully supporting an area where antisocials can blow eachother up without preying upon those who choose not to fight, I dont see how this affects freighter ganking, miner bumping, can flipping etc. Those will still be just as easy. What you should really be wondering is what comes after Thera. If they are making an area in which one can regularly pvp as desired, what then becomes possible with respect to reforming Highsec? It could totally be that CCP is planning to put the screws to the more unseemly and harsher bits of highsec living to make tye game more inviting to new players. There has been a rather concerted push towards that end in other aspects of the game. The antisocials among us can't complain nearly as loudly when there still exists an area with similar highsec services but without the strict rules on civilized behavior. If I were one of said antisocials I might be wondering if in the not too distant future I could be forced out of highsec if I wanted to continue my tear extraction antics.

Hey, thanks for posting something that I can point to in a few years during those discussions on some other game's forums about what finally ended up killing this one.

I wrote some true EVE stories! And no, they're not of the generic "my 0.0 alliance had lots of 0.0 fleets and took a lot of 0.0 space" sort. Check them out here:

https://truestories.eveonline.com/users/2074-destiny-corrupted
Midgen
Imperial Academy
Amarr Empire
#71 - 2014-12-02 08:23:25 UTC
CCP Greyscale wrote:
I am totally sold on this argument.

Thera is cancelled! Next stop: deleting Syndicate and Providence.


Finally..... some semblance of logical thought ;)
Burl en Daire
M.O.M.S. Corp
#72 - 2014-12-02 09:50:25 UTC
Paynus Maiassus wrote:
I didn't read all the replies but the first few pretty much decimate the OP's issue.

First, Thera is not a battleground because there are no limitations on the interaction within the ground.

Second, Thera will not just be neutral. The poster after the OP who said Thera will get instantly locked down. This is partially true. The stations will come under someone's control. The system as a whole will not be locked down. It will still be a good place to go exploring and looking for fights. However, it will not be an artificially regulated neutral zone. One party will control trade there, at the minimum.

I actually think Thera would be better if there were some massive station guns that enforced civility on the undock. I imagine something like that will be implemented in a future update to Thera. At that point it will be closer to a battleground, but it still won't be.

So basically, the OP's complaint is invalid because Thera is not a battleground.



I agree that there should be some untankable guns so that the undock isn't just camped 23/7 because without a fleet to monitor your undock the chances are that your ship will be popped as soon as possible. Things may be able to get into the station but I don't see much hope for getting out.

Yesterday's weirdness is tomorrow's reason why. Hunter S. Thompson
Destiny Corrupted
Deadly Viper Kitten Mitten Sewing Company
Senpai's Afterschool Anime and Gaming Club
#73 - 2014-12-02 10:03:45 UTC
Burl en Daire wrote:
Things may be able to get into the station but I don't see much hope for getting out.

Would need to make instas for every station. Then you can at least use interceptors to escape. But really, what's the point of even going there, if that's all you can fly?

I wrote some true EVE stories! And no, they're not of the generic "my 0.0 alliance had lots of 0.0 fleets and took a lot of 0.0 space" sort. Check them out here:

https://truestories.eveonline.com/users/2074-destiny-corrupted
Signal11th
#74 - 2014-12-02 10:06:12 UTC  |  Edited by: Signal11th
CCP Greyscale wrote:
I am totally sold on this argument.

Thera is cancelled! Next stop: deleting Syndicate and Providence.



If you said Fountain then you may get some support..



Basically if there is any economic benefit to being there then it will flourish if there isn't then it will become just something else nobody takes any notice of.

God Said "Come Forth and receive eternal life!" I came fifth and won a toaster!
Burl en Daire
M.O.M.S. Corp
#75 - 2014-12-02 10:08:24 UTC
Destiny Corrupted wrote:
Burl en Daire wrote:
Things may be able to get into the station but I don't see much hope for getting out.

Would need to make instas for every station. Then you can at least use interceptors to escape. But really, what's the point of even going there, if that's all you can fly?



Exactly, mechanics don't allow them to pop you till you do something for a certain amount of time but if there is a gang outside then the chance of getting caught goes up. I'm not sure about hics and dics but if your insta is inline with the bubble wouldn't it stop/drag you? I am going to be there as soon as I can find the hole because the first few days should be interesting.

Yesterday's weirdness is tomorrow's reason why. Hunter S. Thompson
Destiny Corrupted
Deadly Viper Kitten Mitten Sewing Company
Senpai's Afterschool Anime and Gaming Club
#76 - 2014-12-02 10:09:00 UTC
Interceptors are totally immune to interdiction.

I wrote some true EVE stories! And no, they're not of the generic "my 0.0 alliance had lots of 0.0 fleets and took a lot of 0.0 space" sort. Check them out here:

https://truestories.eveonline.com/users/2074-destiny-corrupted
Burl en Daire
M.O.M.S. Corp
#77 - 2014-12-02 10:13:20 UTC
Destiny Corrupted wrote:
Interceptors are totally immune to interdiction.



Yes, but wouldn't any other ship be pulled right on in? Insta bookmarks don't seem like they would be a good idea if every insta warp dropped you in a spiders web.

Yesterday's weirdness is tomorrow's reason why. Hunter S. Thompson
Destiny Corrupted
Deadly Viper Kitten Mitten Sewing Company
Senpai's Afterschool Anime and Gaming Club
#78 - 2014-12-02 10:16:12 UTC  |  Edited by: Destiny Corrupted
Yes. But if the undock point is bubbled, you won't even get to warp away.

Also, bubbles don't actually interdict you in the middle of warp. They just pull you in on the exit grid if your vector is aligned with them.

I wrote some true EVE stories! And no, they're not of the generic "my 0.0 alliance had lots of 0.0 fleets and took a lot of 0.0 space" sort. Check them out here:

https://truestories.eveonline.com/users/2074-destiny-corrupted
Kesthely
Mestana
#79 - 2014-12-02 12:18:58 UTC
The most promising feature that Thera brings to me is the fact that its a new space where capital ships aren't allowed in.

This means that maybe in the (near?) future we can travel from Thera to new unexplored systems. And because theres no capitals allowed IN Thera this means that in the new systems capitals will need to be build. I imagine this as a soft reset for the superblob that we have in normal eve landscape. If the new systems would allow capitals at all or supercaptitals will allow for an intresting new meta to emerge. Imagine a landscape of hundreds of systems, where no capital ship could ever travel?

I don't know what Thera itself will be like, but any new aspect to the game, for me is an improvment, as long as smart and willing pilots think out of the box and start useing its potential
Trajan Unknown
State War Academy
Caldari State
#80 - 2014-12-02 12:27:14 UTC
CCP Greyscale wrote:
I am totally sold on this argument.

Thera is cancelled! Next stop: deleting Syndicate and Providence.



Not that Catch is still burning :P

Besides that, I am totally sold on it too. After Syndicate, Provi and Catch sucked out all the PvP Thera will deliver the final blow and I will be able to autopilot from Catch through Provi to Jiita and won´t see a single hostile ship. No, I don´t want to wake up the dream is real Big smile