CSM Campaigns

You can argue as much as you want, but you don't do empire wars and you absolutely doesn't do that everyday like Tora does. Because of that, you simply don't know as much as Tora does about empire PVP and war decs and how the mechanics behind it works. Because of that, you shouldn't even be a part of this discussion if you are not supporting empire PVP and war decs to get better.

At least, you should point out Toras flaws or bad points with his ideas if there are any. But your knowledge are pretty much zero in this. That's the reason you can't even point out any flaws or bad points with Toras ideas and just "claim" you know more than him and that Tora is just wrong.

Not only that, but Tora knows enough to actually be a real candidate to the CSM with it's empire PVP and war dec ideas. You don't understand the game enough even in it's basic state to even be considered a candidate to the CSM by a long mile, even if you had tried to go that way. How about that?

The fact is that according to you, you know PVP better than those who have done that for many years and even every day for many years (as we have seen from earlier discussions where you claim to know more, even as a carebear noob). You even knows more than Tora about what empire PVP and war decs is even though Tora does that every day and have done it for many years while you sit in 0.0 space carebearing while using alts in empire for industrial things. You even barely do PVP at all. So how can you expect us to believe you when you have pretty much zero PVP experience to begin with?

Just because you are sad because you know that Tora knows better than you, you don't have to claim that you are better than him at this, because you are not. You are not even remotely near him.

Oh also. The new Rebirth is called 'Deadly Fingertips' .

If camping stations and gates brings tons of kills and tons of isk income, then who gives a rat ass about doing that?

You are simply to scared to admit it that you are afraid of the Marmite because they are so effective at killing stuffs that way. Yeah, you have several alts in empire right?

I bet 5 dollars that some of your alts have been war dec'ed by Marnmite many times (if they are in a player corporation) and you have simply been hiding from them. That's the plain fact of why you are so angry at Tora and Marmite in general. Yeah, you "think" you know more than Tora. But hey, i also "think" that Tora knows much more about empire PVP and war decs than you do. Does that makes me to be more right about it just because i think so?

No. I know this because it's a fact no matter how little you like to hear it or not. You can disagree and go buuhuu as much as you like, but everyone who knows Tora knows i'm talking the truth.

Lucas next time I go back to marmite/hisec come join me. I promise I'll find you ships that shoot back ;-)

LOL! So unless I'm for making wardecs more unbalanced than they already are, I'm not allowed an opinion? That's really not how it works bro. And war mechanics are very simple, so I doubt Tora knows anything more than anyone else that's been here a while. Was he even here for old style war decs?

I have, you're just not reading before you leap in to defend him.

Lol, Tora would be a disgrace to the CSM. He favours his own playstyle at the expense of others and he's near incapable of a reasonable discussion. I guarantee you that I understand the game far more than you think. You attack me, but you know absolutely nothing about me.

I'm not saying I know more about PvP. I'm saying I know as much about wardec mechanics because they are a very simple system and there's not many mechanics to know. And once again, you know nothing about me. I have plenty of experience with PvP both in empire and out of it. You presume too much.

What's wrong with mechanics that are obviopusly unbalanced? I dunno buddy, maybe you should think about that. Why does sov and jump mechanics need to be changed? The CFC is so effective at owning half of null, so who gives a rats ass about doing that? The answer is "everyone else" because us owning everything is a clear sign that the game is unbalanced. It's the same for you lot. A bunch of people who wouldn't know skilled PvP if it jumped up and bit them in the ass wardeccing thousands of noobs and farming them like they were NPCs, that's a clear sign the game is unbalanced. I'm going to laugh my ass off when CCP announce changes and you implode with rage.

And you'd lose 5 dollars there friend. I've not been decced by Marmite even once. If I ever were, the 3 people I have in a corp wouldn't care since they don't undock - not ever. And I've made it totally clear why I've got this opinion about wardecs, I've stated reason I've made a point. You simply don't want to read it so you'll just sit there badly smacktalking as you always do.

Really though your opinion is irrelevant. CCP are already going to look at wardecs, and when they do your crying about how you should be allowed to farm newbies will mean nothing. You're incapable and objectively looking at the mecahnics so you'll likely have no say in what they change.

The problem is that you've got players who do nothing but PvP (the with guns kind as that's not all that PvP is) able to switch off concord and attack players who play in other ways. They stand no chance of fighting back because that's not what they do, and they don;t want to fight back as that's not what they enjoy. Effectively what that means is that highsec favours PvP (with guns) to the point that it's impossible to have a decently sized non-PvP group (hence groups like red-frog and pro-synergy operating out of NPC corps).

As we all know that new players tend to stay longer if they are part of a group, it means that new players choosing to stay in highsec have the choice of joining a PvP group or playing alone or in a very small group. The fact that you're better off running a larger PvE group in null than in highsec for safety reasons is a good sign that the security part of high security isn't effective. Whether people want to accept it or not, high security is supposed to be safer. What people like Tora push for is to maintain the status quo so they can continue to farm there with ease. It's good for them, but not for the game.

In part, social groups will solve that, but I don't think it will be enough, and CCP knows this. The old wardec system had it's flaws, but it was more prohibitive of the mass farming style of wardecs people do now, so back when I started, large scale non-PvP highsec groups were actually viable. Now they simply aren't. The problem is both the changes to wardec mechanics and the specialisation of groups like Marmite.

What risk do you have farming newbies and industrials? The problem is that it's not balanced right now. You're happy with that because you're on the winning side. You need to learn to be more objective. I'm happily watching CCP smash though my entire playstyle with a sledgehammer because I know and accept than null mechanics are out of balance. I don't necessarily agree with how they are doing everything, but I understand why it's needed.

War decs will change and when they do you will be negatively affected. That's something you will have to learn to accept one day. Or not, you know, your call. CCP will be pushing ahead regardless though because there's glaringly obvious balance issues there.

*Snip* Please refrain from personal attacks. ISD Ezwal.

They stand no chance of fighting back
-> Yes they do.
they don;t want to fight back
-> Hey, I don't want to farm isk but CCP isn't handing it to me for free because of that.
what that means is that highsec favours PvP (with guns)
-> EVE = PVP game. PVP with guns, wits, social skills, number smarts, etc... BUT PVP. Yes.
hence groups like red-frog and pro-synergy operating out of NPC corps
-> They adapted. They win. You whine.
As we all know that new players tend to stay longer if they are part of a group, it means that new players choosing to stay in highsec have the choice of joining a PvP group or playing alone or in a very small group
-> You just refered to redfrog and pro-synergy; those are not very small are they?
The fact that you're better off running a larger PvE group in null than in highsec for safety reasons is a good sign that the security part of high security isn't effective.
-> And yet, Hisec is much more alive and is the place to be for PVE and PVP?
high security is supposed to be safer.
-> it is. A lot. What are you trying to say? Can't hear you through your tears.
back when I started, large scale non-PvP highsec groups were actually viable. Now they simply aren't.
-> Time for you to come off your high horse and smell the hisec, buddy. There are literally thousands of those groups active and thriving in hisec.
What risk do you have farming newbies and industrials?
-> We don't farm anything and everyone is a potential killer.
You need to learn to be more objective
-> project much?
War decs will change and when they do you will be negatively affected.
-> pretty sure they need to change but not how you think. Corp hopping should go, that's a given and that will happen.

D.

I understand this. But what you don't seem to understand is that all these fun things in Eve are interactive with each other. Eve doesn't have a little corner somewhere, where you can safely PvE, indy and not care about the PvP side of it.

I'm not playing that game mang...

You seem to know a lot about me Lucas, nothing is true but don't let that stop you.

For ISK, I've got an alt who runs LVL 4 missions. In a corp with 7 other people. Nice people. Never had any trouble.
I don't make isk with PVP. It just doesn't work like that for me... Don't know why you would think that.

When you say PVE is safer in low and null, I'm sure you are joking... At least, tell me you are joking?
Did you mean PVE is safer when you are in a corp/alliance/nullbloc that has PVP players protecting the borders?
Than you are correct. And prove my point.

Check here if you are looking for a good Hisec industrie or exploration or incursion group, it's a good start.

Thanks!

If you have time, pray tell; How would YOU change wardecs?

D.

Wow, a whole 7 people? Apologies though, I thought you were a half-competent PvPer. You should be able to make considerably more than level 4 missions when you are farming haulers.

I didn't say "PvE is safer". Learn to read. I said operating a large scale PvE group is safer. And it is. If you tried to run a 100 man industrial corp in highsec you'd be permadecced by like 5 groups.

Lol, so tl;dr, while you say there are thousands of large PvE groups operating in highsec, you can't name 5.

For a quick win, I'd restrict outgoing aggressive wars to 5 or 10. This would stop mass wardec farming.

Long term I'd remove the entire system as it currently stands and replace it with a method for taking short term control of sections of space so PVE activity within it pays you - you get a cut of market fees, taxes, repair bills, etc. The aim would be to give PvP groups something to fight over while giving PvE players ways to support the groups they want to support by playing the way they want. One of the best examples of PvP in highsec working as it should was when RvB were taking POCOs and the mercs all went after them. Two way fighting is far better at generating meaningful combat than the one sided turkey shoots that wardecs currently promote.

I wouldn't do it like sov, with structure shoots and timers, It'd be much quicker, so you literally just fly over and stake a claim and as long as noone is contesting that, you win control straight away for a day or so. If someone wants to contest it they fly over and do so and then both groups are free to fire on each other at will. I suppose it would be like a cross between FW and sov, but faster paced.

Of course you don't, you just mass wardec corps and destroy their ever replenishing industrial ships for loot. Oh wait, that is farming.

And I don't farm in nullbear land. Like level 45 missions it's peasant isk. I make most of my isk trading in highsec, and I enhance that with production. The reason I'm in a null group is so that I can readily engage in large scale PvP and run some trade in null sec.

I'll have to take your word for it in low, since nobody lives there because it's terribad. As for null, there are loads of PvE groups. Parts of the CFC are pure PvE, as are most of the renters. Yes you need to interact, but you don't need to do it with guns.

So start naming. Ones that still exists would generally be good as it would only prove my point more if you names groups that couldn't survive.