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time to "fix" the ishtar
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Asa Shahni
Inevitable Outcome
E.C.H.O
#41 - 2014-11-29 21:29:12 UTC
Presidente Gallente wrote:
afkalt wrote:
You're trying to say that killing the drones is a good idea/counter to ishtars. This is fundamentally bullshit as soon as you have more than a handful on field and you will die in a fire.


No it's essential if you fight a drone boat. Finally you can kill their drones if you have a counter setup with logistics. When I have a Proteus with two Guardians and I get attacked by 5 shield Ishtars using sentry drones and kiting me at warp disrupt range I would burn towards their drones and kill them while I get repped up. If they don't give up you fight them as long as they get out of drones and have to bail. EVE is special because there's no walkthrough or pattern you are dreaming about. You need a counter setup otherwise you have to live with what you fight. If you have 10 Ishtars or 10 Oracles. Where's the difference? Both fleets alpha you to hell if you are in the wrong setup. Or mor worst: if you are alone. Simple as that. It has a long tradition in EVE that (unexperienced) pilots who have no idea how to counter or don't understand how EVE works especially when you fight in bigger groups against bigger groups start threads begging for changes. There are all the time new fleet doctrines to beat the other side if they don't have the right counter fleet for this. Noone of these people would ever start a thread like this because they take their time and brain what could be a great setup to fight Ishtars.


Have you ever fought ishtars, cuz ive look at your KB since the HAC change and all you do with ishtars is losing them.
What i see here is just ********. Lets take 50 ishtars with recon/scimi suport and see how many drones 50x5=150x3=450.
By the time you took 1/3 of their drones you will all be dead.
The only real way to destroy the drones is with a few smart bomb BS that have a warp in on top of the sentry ball and that easier said then done since by the time you have it and your BS land youre losing stuff left and right.
(all that is possible because you rely on intel most group wont have prio to the fight and can't be used in every ingagement.)
We've done that once and it's because our SB BSs had infiltrated the enemy coalition and were in the ishtar fleet.

The only real way to defeat ishtars is to voley them off the field to remove 3 set of drones at once with navpoc or arty machs.
With the current state of null sec armor BS is the last thing you want flying around so your p. much stuck with facing them with other ishtars or the other OP swagboat : railgu.
It's sad but in eve right not its ketchup or mayo in your hotdogs no place for something else otherwise you'll have a bitter taste of reality. ^^
Viribus
Aurora.
The Initiative.
#42 - 2014-11-29 21:34:32 UTC
"guys ishtars are fine, just kill 70k EHP of sentries"

watch me be a scurb and get owned
Sentamon
Imperial Academy
Amarr Empire
#43 - 2014-11-29 22:07:24 UTC
MeBiatch wrote:
So the Ishtar got a slight nerf early in the year but with the news that the ishtar is still doing 8% of all pvp damage it seems that the nerf was more of a tickle.

my suggestion to fix the ishtar is to remove the sentry optial range/tracking bonus all together and replace it with a fall off bonus to medium hybrid turrets...

this should be enough to still allow the ishtar to be a sentry ship if needed but it will truely shine as a close range blaster/heavy drone ship.


Maybe when they add WASD controls you'll learn not to do the usual 2 maneuvers that account for so many Ishtar kills ... sitting in place or flying directly at the sentries.

~ Professional Forum Alt  ~
Brigadine Ferathine
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#44 - 2014-11-29 22:09:39 UTC
Komi Toran wrote:
MeBiatch wrote:
my suggestion to fix the ishtar is to remove the sentry optial range/tracking bonus all together and replace it with a fall off bonus to medium hybrid turrets...

Let's take a look:

Cerberus:
Light, Heavy, Heavy Assault Missile
Light, Heavy, Heavy Assault Missile
Light, Heavy, Heavy Assault Missile
Light, Heavy, Heavy Assault Missile

Muninn:
Medium Projectile Turret
Medium Projectile Turret
Medium Projectile Turret
Medium Projectile Turret

Zealot:
Medium Energy Turret
Medium Energy Turret
Medium Energy Turret
Medium Energy Turret

Proposed Ishtar:
Heavy Drone
Drone
Drone
Medium Hybrid Turret

One of these things is not like the others. One of these things just doesn't belong.

We need to remember Galentee is the Drone race....
MeBiatch
GRR GOONS
#45 - 2014-11-30 02:55:25 UTC
Sentamon wrote:
MeBiatch wrote:
So the Ishtar got a slight nerf early in the year but with the news that the ishtar is still doing 8% of all pvp damage it seems that the nerf was more of a tickle.

my suggestion to fix the ishtar is to remove the sentry optial range/tracking bonus all together and replace it with a fall off bonus to medium hybrid turrets...

this should be enough to still allow the ishtar to be a sentry ship if needed but it will truely shine as a close range blaster/heavy drone ship.


Maybe when they add WASD controls you'll learn not to do the usual 2 maneuvers that account for so many Ishtar kills ... sitting in place or flying directly at the sentries.


right so ishtar has great tracking for sentries and when you start manual orbit you got that sig radius bloom which makes that tracking even better.

the thing is on sub bs having a tracking bonus/optimal range bonus and a huge drone bay is op.

There are no stupid Questions... just stupid people... CCP Goliath wrote:

Ugh ti-di pooping makes me sad.
Barton Breau
University of Caille
Gallente Federation
#46 - 2014-11-30 03:27:55 UTC
Viribus wrote:
"guys ishtars are fine, just kill 70k EHP of sentries"


To be fair, making sentries (and drones in general?) weaker specifically to pvp or aoe damage has been suggested now and then, but noone really pays attention to that and conceptually it seems like a big change for eve.
afkalt
Republic Military School
Minmatar Republic
#47 - 2014-11-30 09:16:53 UTC
Barton Breau wrote:
Viribus wrote:
"guys ishtars are fine, just kill 70k EHP of sentries"


To be fair, making sentries (and drones in general?) weaker specifically to pvp or aoe damage has been suggested now and then, but noone really pays attention to that and conceptually it seems like a big change for eve.


Because for most other ships it's not an issue.

Average ishtar fit is 600+ DPS @75+62, cap stable with all mids active, enough free grid and cpu to fit 3 neuts and a DLA. And is still 1800ms and a good buffer pool to boot.

The ship has got it all in a single fit. If it simply had to make compromises it would be in a much better place. There's nothing hugely wrong with its numbers in isolation just that it manages all of that in one fit.
Barton Breau
University of Caille
Gallente Federation
#48 - 2014-11-30 21:42:28 UTC
afkalt wrote:


Because for most other ships it's not an issue.

Average ishtar fit is 600+ DPS @75+62, cap stable with all mids active, enough free grid and cpu to fit 3 neuts and a DLA. And is still 1800ms and a good buffer pool to boot.

The ship has got it all in a single fit. If it simply had to make compromises it would be in a much better place. There's nothing hugely wrong with its numbers in isolation just that it manages all of that in one fit.


How many of those "most other ships" treat drones as their main weapon system?

Or are you saying that slowcats and (historically) mass domis are underperforming?

The compromise is supposed to be that you leave your weapons behind and they can be destroyed.

The ship already has amarr cpu and caldari pg, so good luck on a change in that respect.
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