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Update regarding Multiboxing and input automation

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Lady of Enterprise
Doomheim
#4441 - 2015-11-09 06:04:53 UTC
The game is on the wane, and the banning of people using automation to run multiple accounts has seen the population drop from consistent 50,000 + players, to less than 30,000. Despite what bs CODE. / Goonswarm want to preach, people have left the game since this ban has been put in place.

Why?

Some of the best content of the game is not doable w/o several people or several accounts. There are always more people out there interested to build and explore alone, then there will be who wish to be forced into groups with a-holes that most people would not give the time of day to.

Those solo players have to be provided a rich game experience also, or they will not stay, and they have not. Who wants to be in a game where you constantly reminded that if you don't join a group of scum to get access to the best parts of the game, then one never will?

Work on that problem first, start unlocking the good game content to solo players.
Intar Medris
Viziam
Amarr Empire
#4442 - 2015-11-09 14:41:22 UTC
Lady of Enterprise wrote:
The game is on the wane, and the banning of people using automation to run multiple accounts has seen the population drop from consistent 50,000 + players, to less than 30,000. Despite what bs CODE. / Goonswarm want to preach, people have left the game since this ban has been put in place.

Why?

Some of the best content of the game is not doable w/o several people or several accounts. There are always more people out there interested to build and explore alone, then there will be who wish to be forced into groups with a-holes that most people would not give the time of day to.

Those solo players have to be provided a rich game experience also, or they will not stay, and they have not. Who wants to be in a game where you constantly reminded that if you don't join a group of scum to get access to the best parts of the game, then one never will?

Work on that problem first, start unlocking the good game content to solo players.


A lot of the decline has to do with with the ban on input broadcasting. Most of them that did it ran missions or mined. You don't need multiple people to mine or run missions. Only purpose multi boxing serves there is to earn more ISK per hour. It wasn't uncommon to come across 10 man mining fleet controlled by one person using ISBOXER. They would wipe clean whole systems in just a couple hours. To be honest it was getting quite ridiculous. You had one with HUNDREDS of accounts that mined ice. He wipe while ice belts in an hour or less making 10,000,000,000s ISK a DAY IN HIGH SEC! If EVE needs a bunch ISBOXERs to stay alive, which it doesn't, then it's already dead.

Do yourself a favor and get out of the NPC corp. Most player corps are quite friendly. It's only the ELITE PVP corps that are typically ran by assholes, and even then there are some very nice PVP corps out there.

I try to be nice and mind my business just shooting lasers at rocks. There is just way too many asshats in New Eden for that to happen.

Lucas Kell
Solitude Trading
#4443 - 2015-11-09 17:52:21 UTC
Intar Medris wrote:
A lot of the decline has to do with with the ban on input broadcasting. Most of them that did it ran missions or mined. You don't need multiple people to mine or run missions. Only purpose multi boxing serves there is to earn more ISK per hour. It wasn't uncommon to come across 10 man mining fleet controlled by one person using ISBOXER. They would wipe clean whole systems in just a couple hours. To be honest it was getting quite ridiculous. You had one with HUNDREDS of accounts that mined ice. He wipe while ice belts in an hour or less making 10,000,000,000s ISK a DAY IN HIGH SEC! If EVE needs a bunch ISBOXERs to stay alive, which it doesn't, then it's already dead.

Do yourself a favor and get out of the NPC corp. Most player corps are quite friendly. It's only the ELITE PVP corps that are typically ran by assholes, and even then there are some very nice PVP corps out there.
You do realise that the crazy high account ISBoxer players were very rare right? And even without ISBoxer there are people running 20-30 account groups, because mechanics in EVE are stupidly easy. It's definitely not uncommon to come across 10 man fleets run by one dude now. Pretty much go to any ice belt in highsec at the right times.

Also, the ISK they made might seem high if you get your isk from solo running missions, but traders make more for less effort and require less characters to plex, and there's loads of them. So if you problem is people making loads of isk in highsec, where's your posts to get trading banned? I question your 10b isk/day from ice mining too, since that would mean that the player mined a minimum of 20 complete ice belts in a day with no competition and without destroying their own profit margins by shifting that much ice constantly.

The truth is EVE doesn't need ISBoxer to survive, but it's just another playstyle destroyed. It doesn't "need" ganking, missioning or exploration to survive either, but removing them just limits what people can do, which is bad.

The Indecisive Noob - EVE fan blog.

Wholesale Trading - The new bulk trading mailing list.

Lady Rift
What Shall We Call It
#4444 - 2015-11-09 19:01:05 UTC
Lady of Enterprise wrote:
The game is on the wane, and the banning of people using automation to run multiple accounts has seen the population drop from consistent 50,000 + players, to less than 30,000. Despite what bs CODE. / Goonswarm want to preach, people have left the game since this ban has been put in place.

Why?

Some of the best content of the game is not doable w/o several people or several accounts. There are always more people out there interested to build and explore alone, then there will be who wish to be forced into groups with a-holes that most people would not give the time of day to.

Those solo players have to be provided a rich game experience also, or they will not stay, and they have not. Who wants to be in a game where you constantly reminded that if you don't join a group of scum to get access to the best parts of the game, then one never will?

Work on that problem first, start unlocking the good game content to solo players.




what content is only available to groups other than incursions that need such a fleet that a single person with 2-3 accounts can not do on there own?
Intar Medris
Viziam
Amarr Empire
#4445 - 2015-11-10 15:15:50 UTC
Lucas Kell wrote:
Intar Medris wrote:
A lot of the decline has to do with with the ban on input broadcasting. Most of them that did it ran missions or mined. You don't need multiple people to mine or run missions. Only purpose multi boxing serves there is to earn more ISK per hour. It wasn't uncommon to come across 10 man mining fleet controlled by one person using ISBOXER. They would wipe clean whole systems in just a couple hours. To be honest it was getting quite ridiculous. You had one with HUNDREDS of accounts that mined ice. He wipe while ice belts in an hour or less making 10,000,000,000s ISK a DAY IN HIGH SEC! If EVE needs a bunch ISBOXERs to stay alive, which it doesn't, then it's already dead.

Do yourself a favor and get out of the NPC corp. Most player corps are quite friendly. It's only the ELITE PVP corps that are typically ran by assholes, and even then there are some very nice PVP corps out there.
You do realise that the crazy high account ISBoxer players were very rare right? And even without ISBoxer there are people running 20-30 account groups, because mechanics in EVE are stupidly easy. It's definitely not uncommon to come across 10 man fleets run by one dude now. Pretty much go to any ice belt in highsec at the right times.

Also, the ISK they made might seem high if you get your isk from solo running missions, but traders make more for less effort and require less characters to plex, and there's loads of them. So if you problem is people making loads of isk in highsec, where's your posts to get trading banned? I question your 10b isk/day from ice mining too, since that would mean that the player mined a minimum of 20 complete ice belts in a day with no competition and without destroying their own profit margins by shifting that much ice constantly.

The truth is EVE doesn't need ISBoxer to survive, but it's just another playstyle destroyed. It doesn't "need" ganking, missioning or exploration to survive either, but removing them just limits what people can do, which is bad.


That's ice. Try managing those those same 10+ accounts in a standard high sec belt. Most rocks will last only 2 cycles before becoming depleted. Quite the handful without isboxer.

I try to be nice and mind my business just shooting lasers at rocks. There is just way too many asshats in New Eden for that to happen.

Lucas Kell
Solitude Trading
#4446 - 2015-11-10 15:53:08 UTC
Intar Medris wrote:
That's ice. Try managing those those same 10+ accounts in a standard high sec belt. Most rocks will last only 2 cycles before becoming depleted. Quite the handful without isboxer.
Generally you are mining ice, as that's where the efficiency is best.

Even with ore though, it's not actually too difficult to control. I know because I historically have run 20 accounts with no ISBoxer (I didn't feel the ISBoxer sub costs were worth the benefit). As long as you have something to tile your clients so you can rapidly swap between them (eve-o preview for example) then it's really not much effort. Bear in mind that a cycle is like 90-100s or something in a maxed skiff with boosts. 18 miners, 1 booster, 1 hauler, assuming that 2 cycles is a rock gone, you need to change rocks and unload into the hauler 18 times every 3 minutes. With a huge amount of ease you can keep everyone cycling and still have enough idle time to play sleeping dogs.

The thing you miss though is that even with ISBoxer, you have to target each client individually, otherwise you'll get a huge problem with them all targeting the same rocks and killing each others efficiency. The only benefits ISBoxer had is it allowed you to undock together (my solution, never dock) open all your cargo holds, and turn on defenses together (my solution, bind all of my keys close to each other then headbutt the keyboard for each client once at the start) and shift cargo from the miners to the hauler (the only real benefit and as mentioned above, really not a big deal since you're manually targeting each anyway). The real truth is that manually multiboxing has always been more efficient for mining than broadcasting until you get get to 30-40 clients because broadcasting promoted lazyness which reduced efficiency.

The Indecisive Noob - EVE fan blog.

Wholesale Trading - The new bulk trading mailing list.

Globby
Never Ignorant Gettin' Goals Accomplished
Gimme Da Loot
#4447 - 2015-11-18 14:44:52 UTC
I'm glad CCP finally punished the cheaters, +1 CCP I'm with you all the way on this change.
Lucas Kell
Solitude Trading
#4448 - 2015-11-18 16:41:31 UTC
Globby wrote:
I'm glad CCP finally punished the cheaters
I fully agree, getting rid of those hyperdunk cheaters was a good call.

The Indecisive Noob - EVE fan blog.

Wholesale Trading - The new bulk trading mailing list.

Arcano Dentist
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#4449 - 2015-11-22 13:54:53 UTC
Is there one guy dominating the universe with 100 boxed accounts? No. Do you come across one guy running a gate camp with 20 boxed ships? No.
Most multiboxers are mining or Ratting. Fact. So why does this bother people?
Marsha Mallow
#4450 - 2015-11-22 22:00:09 UTC
Arcano Dentist wrote:
Is there one guy dominating the universe with 100 boxed accounts? No. Do you come across one guy running a gate camp with 20 boxed ships? No.
Most multiboxers are mining or Ratting. Fact. So why does this bother people?

The same applies to bots. Explain the difference please.

Ripard Teg > For the morons in the room:

Sweets > U can dd my face any day

Lady Rift
What Shall We Call It
#4451 - 2015-11-23 01:08:20 UTC
Marsha Mallow wrote:
Arcano Dentist wrote:
Is there one guy dominating the universe with 100 boxed accounts? No. Do you come across one guy running a gate camp with 20 boxed ships? No.
Most multiboxers are mining or Ratting. Fact. So why does this bother people?

The same applies to bots. Explain the difference please.


there isnt one other than one breaks the eula.
Lucas Kell
Solitude Trading
#4452 - 2015-11-23 14:47:53 UTC
Marsha Mallow wrote:
Arcano Dentist wrote:
Is there one guy dominating the universe with 100 boxed accounts? No. Do you come across one guy running a gate camp with 20 boxed ships? No.
Most multiboxers are mining or Ratting. Fact. So why does this bother people?
The same applies to bots. Explain the difference please.
Well the main difference is efficiency. A bot can sustain 100% efficiency continuously for as long as it runs. A broadcaster will find his efficiency per character drops quite drastically. Up to about 30 characters a broadcasting miner for example will actually find his efficiency below that of a manual multiboxer.

Another pretty big difference is that most larger scale botters do so to generate isk for RMT, while multiboxers tend to do it for the enjoyment. Botters will also be less likely to be seen in massive smartbombable blobs. I mean think about it, that big group of 20 characters all mining together, they get reported constantly by people who don't like them so they are under heavy scrutiny. That one guy here, one guy a region over, another 5 jumps from that, far less scrutiny. Bots don't needs to be grouped as each one thinks for itself. I'd wager that far more individual "solo" characters are bots than behemoth groups.

The Indecisive Noob - EVE fan blog.

Wholesale Trading - The new bulk trading mailing list.

Mallak Azaria
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#4453 - 2015-11-30 21:36:23 UTC
Eleven months later & people are still bitching about this. And I thought I had problems.

This post was lovingly crafted by a member of the Goonwaffe Posting Cabal, proud member of the popular gay hookup site somethingawful.com, Spelling Bee, Grammar Gestapo & #1 Official Gevlon Goblin Fanclub member.

Lucas Kell
Solitude Trading
#4454 - 2015-12-01 08:32:57 UTC
Mallak Azaria wrote:
Eleven months later & people are still bitching about this. And I thought I had problems.
Well they haven't really done much else worth talking about to be fair. It's basically this and sov.

The Indecisive Noob - EVE fan blog.

Wholesale Trading - The new bulk trading mailing list.

Elyia Suze Nagala
Republic Military School
Minmatar Republic
#4455 - 2015-12-06 12:27:22 UTC
Mallak Azaria wrote:
Eleven months later & people are still bitching about this. And I thought I had problems.


Amen. I'd like to see this discussion remove from the number one spot in GD. There is literally no point in keeping it.
Mallak Azaria
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#4456 - 2015-12-09 03:21:44 UTC
Lucas Kell wrote:
Mallak Azaria wrote:
Eleven months later & people are still bitching about this. And I thought I had problems.
Well they haven't really done much else worth talking about to be fair. It's basically this and sov.


I hear they also banned the goblin from here because he went full Trump mode. You could post about that.

This post was lovingly crafted by a member of the Goonwaffe Posting Cabal, proud member of the popular gay hookup site somethingawful.com, Spelling Bee, Grammar Gestapo & #1 Official Gevlon Goblin Fanclub member.

Lucas Kell
Solitude Trading
#4457 - 2015-12-09 15:20:44 UTC
Mallak Azaria wrote:
Lucas Kell wrote:
Mallak Azaria wrote:
Eleven months later & people are still bitching about this. And I thought I had problems.
Well they haven't really done much else worth talking about to be fair. It's basically this and sov.
I hear they also banned the goblin from here because he went full Trump mode. You could post about that.
Haven't heard a thing about it, sorry bro. I'm pretty much just waiting for CCP to announce their near full attention on VR and their phasing out of historic new eden content.

Anyway, FF7 is out once again now though so all else is irrelevant.

The Indecisive Noob - EVE fan blog.

Wholesale Trading - The new bulk trading mailing list.

Mallak Azaria
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#4458 - 2015-12-09 22:10:47 UTC
Lucas Kell wrote:
Mallak Azaria wrote:
Lucas Kell wrote:
Mallak Azaria wrote:
Eleven months later & people are still bitching about this. And I thought I had problems.
Well they haven't really done much else worth talking about to be fair. It's basically this and sov.
I hear they also banned the goblin from here because he went full Trump mode. You could post about that.
Haven't heard a thing about it, sorry bro. I'm pretty much just waiting for CCP to announce their near full attention on VR and their phasing out of historic new eden content.

Anyway, FF7 is out once again now though so all else is irrelevant.


Enjoy paying hundreds of dollars for a remake of the same crappy game you played 17 years ago.

This post was lovingly crafted by a member of the Goonwaffe Posting Cabal, proud member of the popular gay hookup site somethingawful.com, Spelling Bee, Grammar Gestapo & #1 Official Gevlon Goblin Fanclub member.

Lucas Kell
Solitude Trading
#4459 - 2015-12-10 17:46:32 UTC
Mallak Azaria wrote:
Lucas Kell wrote:
Mallak Azaria wrote:
Lucas Kell wrote:
Mallak Azaria wrote:
Eleven months later & people are still bitching about this. And I thought I had problems.
Well they haven't really done much else worth talking about to be fair. It's basically this and sov.
I hear they also banned the goblin from here because he went full Trump mode. You could post about that.
Haven't heard a thing about it, sorry bro. I'm pretty much just waiting for CCP to announce their near full attention on VR and their phasing out of historic new eden content.

Anyway, FF7 is out once again now though so all else is irrelevant.
Enjoy paying hundreds of dollars for a remake of the same crappy game you played 17 years ago.
Well at the moment I'm enjoying paying £9 to play the exact same game I played 17 years ago, with trophies! Thanks!

I'm a massive FF7 nerd though so as long as the remake isn't too ruined I'll probably pay and extortionate amount of money for whatever super special edition they do. I've bought like 3 copies on the PS1, a couple on the PC, and the Ps3/Vita one and such over the years. I'm such a nerd I even have the limited edition FF7 vinyl, twice (one to play and one to stay pristine).

The Indecisive Noob - EVE fan blog.

Wholesale Trading - The new bulk trading mailing list.

Globby
Never Ignorant Gettin' Goals Accomplished
Gimme Da Loot
#4460 - 2015-12-13 17:55:26 UTC
+1 CCP I wholeheartedly agree with these changes.