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Update regarding Multiboxing and input automation

First post First post First post
Author
ISD Dorrim Barstorlode
ISD Community Communications Liaisons
ISD Alliance
#4241 - 2015-04-28 18:39:55 UTC
Removed some posts discussing moderation.

ISD Dorrim Barstorlode

Senior Lead

Community Communication Liaisons (CCLs)

Interstellar Services Department

GankYou
9B30FF Labs
#4242 - 2015-04-28 19:31:00 UTC
Lucas Kell wrote:
GankYou wrote:
Except it didn't.

That's the point. Roll
???? It's obviously did, hence the people still playing the game. ISBoxers had nearly no effect on the game then, all they did were make some people sad pandas when they though someone was making more isk than them.


Keep peddling this story. Someone might believe it.

It surely won't be CCP. Blink
Lucas Kell
Solitude Trading
S.N.O.T.
#4243 - 2015-04-28 21:19:55 UTC
GankYou wrote:
Keep peddling this story. Someone might believe it.

It surely won't be CCP. Blink
Lol. I do love your selective responses which say basically nothing. Let's just understand that your position appears to be "grr multiboxers" and assume that sense isn't something we're likely to get from you and leave it at that. I'll continue to watch CCP allow swarms of multiboxers to operate (as they always will) and the economy to be unaffected by their presence while you can continue to wail about the end of multiboxing as if it's something that will change.

The Indecisive Noob - EVE fan blog.

Wholesale Trading - The new bulk trading mailing list.

AayJay Crendraven
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#4244 - 2015-04-28 21:40:06 UTC
GankYou wrote:
I already have - Automated inputs. It is acknowledged that singular, or limited number of accounts running automation is harder to detect, but their profitability per person is going to be such, as to become a non-factor in the economy.

No, you misunderstood the question. Explain what you mean by "automated inputs". This is a serious issue and should not be limited to a two-word answer lest someone interprets it incorrectly to mean "botting programs and complex macros".

Quote:
Is it when the average Joe and Jane fires up ISBoxer and runs 15-20 accounts simultanously in perfect sync - that becomes a problem.

[Citation Needed]

Quote:
In the context of Eve: One player - One action per reasonable unit of time. If said person can down a Titan solo while alt-tabbing, then more power to him. - Erebus wanted to go home 25.11.14Blink

Funny how you bring up a video of Russian supercarrier pilots when the running joke for quite a while was "grr Russian carrier bots" as seen here.
Additionally, he forced his EVE clients to not stack in the task bar, something which gives him a distinct advantage in switching clients and activating modules over people who did not.

Quote:
But most importantly, read the EULA,

Hang on, that wasn't the point of this exercise. This was a test to determine what *you* defined bots as.

Quote:
Even without Input Automation/Broadcasts function in the ISBoxer, their bullshit Dashboards can also be considered as botting under both 6A-2 and 6A-3. Smile

Incorrect as the only way to ban VideoFX's interaction with a client would also snag video capturing software such as Fraps (though as I mentioned earlier I'd be unsure as to Shadowplay due to the nature of how it grabs frames from the GPU). VideoFX then displays the "dashboards" onto Windows Aero, not the client directly.
And finally, TS3, Steam, Overwolf, and Mumble overlays all arguably violate 6A2 as well, and Fuzzworks and EVEMon/Pyfa/EFT/EVEHQ arguably violate 6A3, yet you have been mum on their legality. Double standards, much?
Lucas Kell
Solitude Trading
S.N.O.T.
#4245 - 2015-04-28 22:08:07 UTC  |  Edited by: Lucas Kell
This by the way is what a properly set up eve-o preview looks like. Room for 32 standard (in 16-1-16, the 1 being the control screen) or 20 if you're doing the 16-1-4 if you've got some you want to see more than others (among other layouts). That's totally legal multiboxing for you, using only EVE and EVE-O preview which CCP have stated is fine to use unmodified.

The Indecisive Noob - EVE fan blog.

Wholesale Trading - The new bulk trading mailing list.

Lee Sin Priest
Doomheim
#4246 - 2015-04-28 22:35:53 UTC
Lucas Kell wrote:
This by the way is what a properly set up eve-o preview looks like. Room for 32 standard (in 16-1-16, the 1 being the control screen) or 20 if you're doing the 16-1-4 if you've got some you want to see more than others (among other layouts). That's totally legal multiboxing for you, using only EVE and EVE-O preview which CCP have stated is fine to use unmodified.


May as well be VFX
GankYou
9B30FF Labs
#4247 - 2015-04-28 23:29:55 UTC
AayJay Crendraven wrote:

Additionally, he forced his EVE clients to not stack in the task bar, something which gives him a distinct advantage in switching clients and activating modules over people who did not.


Clearly, this great injustice must be rectified in some shape, way, or form!

Amusing thread, I'd go point-by-point, again, but we'd be going in circles, again, which means the general consensus had been reached with minor parties disregarding all reasoning.

Instead, I'll enjoy it further on - currently only on page 48. Smile
AayJay Crendraven
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#4248 - 2015-04-29 02:11:52 UTC
GankYou wrote:
but we'd be going in circles

You're right. You keep attempting to bring up points about violations of the EULA, and I keep demolishing them when I mention EVEMon and TS3.
Then you attempt to argue PLEX, to which Lucas and I counter by talking about the PLEX hoarders and traders who move PLEX.
When you go back to talking about what EVE was intended to be or what the devs wanted for the game, I respond with wormholes.

And then you go back to talking about violations of the EULA.
GankYou
9B30FF Labs
#4249 - 2015-04-29 02:25:25 UTC  |  Edited by: GankYou
Alruan Shadowborn wrote:
They called it the Boxer virus.

No one knew where it came from, some suspected it was a plot by Sansha Kuvakei to take control of the growing legion of capsuleers, others suggested some remnant of long lost sleeper technology.

One thing for sure, it is insipid, permeating the very fabric of New Eden.

It started small, a few capsuleers in one system. But in time it spread, with entire fleets succumbing.

The virus was strange, it didn't damage the host's health, if anything it improved it, but it exerted mind linking properties unlike anything seen before, like a hive-mind creating a fleet of drones, but rather than mechanical drones with simplistic AI, it was a capsuleer piloted drone, capable of flying any ship across the cluster.

As you can imagine, this concerned quite a few the leaders of New Eden, the empires, CONCORD, even some of the Pirate Commanders were worried. Imagine large fleets of ships controlled with a hive mind, a single action performed simultaneously across a fleet.

It was the stuff of nightmares, especially if Kuvakei were behind it and was the puppet master pulling the strings.

__________________________________________________________________________________________________

CONCORD Research Center Alpha 357
Yulai
Planet VIII – Moon 10 – Concord Logistic Support
Professor Grian Julkit Falcon
Initial Research Report – Boxer Virus

The virus is strange, near undetectable in it’s dormant state, it increases synaptic speed of capsuleer minds. In and of itself, this is no real concern, with the capsule linking systems achieving much the same during flight.

When the virus is active however, the change is extraordinary. Synaptic speed continues to increase, but beyond that, it seems new links form that allow the mind to transmit and receive information, however only to and from one source.

The fleet that was captured has proven interesting to study, there was one member who appeared less infected than the others, and seemed to exhibit the characteristics of controlling the other “drones” for want of a better term. Interrogation techniques have so far proven futile, with the “controller” yielding no new information.

I have engineered what I hope will prove to be a vaccine against the virus, and with the current production cycle planned, it should commence distribution from 1 January YC117. Given the concern around this virus and the power it could grant to one person if harnessed, vaccination will be compulsory, and conducted in top secret. It should not be too hard to have our agents install Aerosol units on every ship in the cluster when they dock.

I will continue trying to understand this Virus, who made it is truly important. As if it is Kuvakei, the stability of the Empires will be in jeopardy.

But I also highlight, as with any vaccination program, we will not prevent it all, so ongoing monitoring of the Capsuleer population will be necessary to ensure the eradication of this virus is complete.


Bravo. ☜༼ຈل͜ຈ☜༽
AayJay Crendraven
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#4250 - 2015-04-29 02:39:38 UTC
Trakow, let's try something new.

You submit a ticket and ask, in your own words, about the legality of ISBoxer's VideoFX software, or the legality of using Windows Aero.

If CCP says anything other than "You should read the post" or "ask your questions in the thread", I will eat my hat with salt and ketchup.
Trakow
Beta Switch
#4251 - 2015-04-29 02:41:54 UTC
AayJay Crendraven wrote:

Incorrect as the only way to ban VideoFX's interaction with a client would also snag video capturing software such as Fraps (though as I mentioned earlier I'd be unsure as to Shadowplay due to the nature of how it grabs frames from the GPU). VideoFX then displays the "dashboards" onto Windows Aero, not the client directly.
And finally, TS3, Steam, Overwolf, and Mumble overlays all arguably violate 6A2 as well, and Fuzzworks and EVEMon/Pyfa/EFT/EVEHQ arguably violate 6A3, yet you have been mum on their legality. Double standards, much?


Wrong. As for your mention of TS3, see the Third Party Policy under Client Modification, which states:

"the use of programs that provide in-game overlays (Mumble, Teamspeak) is not something we plan to actively police at this time."

So you can throw that argument out as they specifically mentioned them. Double-standard or not, it's their rules. As for Fraps or Shadowplay, they capture, they don't change anything within the game environment.

VideoFX uses Innerspace and provides windows within the DirectX window. This clearly violates EULA
6A2) "You may not use your own or third-party software to modify any content appearing within the Game environment or change how the Game is played."

Very clear.
Trakow
Beta Switch
#4252 - 2015-04-29 02:44:32 UTC
AayJay Crendraven wrote:
Trakow, let's try something new.

You submit a ticket and ask, in your own words, about the legality of ISBoxer's VideoFX software, or the legality of using Windows Aero.

If CCP says anything other than "You should read the post" or "ask your questions in the thread", I will eat my hat with salt and ketchup.


That's what I expect them to say, and it's very clear. Do I really have to post it again? Ok then:

THIRD-PARTY POLICIES :

"Please use player-made or other third party software at your own risk."

One more time just in case you didn't get that:

"Please use player-made or other third party software at your own risk."
AayJay Crendraven
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#4253 - 2015-04-29 02:49:37 UTC
Trakow wrote:
Wrong. As for your mention of TS3, see the Third Party Policy under Client Modification, which states:

"the use of programs that provide in-game overlays (Mumble, Teamspeak) is not something we plan to actively police at this time."

So you can throw that argument out as they specifically mentioned them. Double-standard or not, it's their rules. As for Fraps or Shadowplay, they capture, they don't change anything within the game environment.
VideoFX uses Innerspace and provides windows within the DirectX window. This clearly violates EULA
6A2) "You may not use your own or third-party software to modify any content appearing within the Game environment or change how the Game is played."
Very clear.


Wrong. VideoFX displays screens onto Windows Aero, not the clients directly. I told you this ages ago.
Additionally, dxNothing is not under CCP's purview and does not violate 6A2 unless you restrict everyone to a given window size and resolution.

It's painfully obvious you don't know what you're talking about as well.
ISBoxer is the program that generates the "barebones" profiles that Inner Space "reads". ISBoxer's profiles include FPS limits, proper CPU management, and monitor setups and tiling.
VideoFX is a feature of Inner Space and utilizes Windows Aero.

And finally, ISBoxer used to be "... not actively police[d]...". The sudden reversal of one program's stance does not immediately mean every other program is suddenly safe. Look at cache scraping, for heavens sake. It's explicitly disallowed by the EULA and TOS, and then CCP turned around and said it was explicitly allowed for market shenanigans but disallowed for other stuff.
AayJay Crendraven
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#4254 - 2015-04-29 02:52:09 UTC
Trakow wrote:
That's what I expect them to say, and it's very clear.


You clearly missed the first post that said to ask any questions about ISBoxer or any activity that remotely relates to ISBoxer in a ticket. We have been asking for the past 6, 7, 8? months, and we keep getting referred to the thread here when our questions are not answered either explicitly or even via a loose interpretation of what was stated.
Trakow
Beta Switch
#4255 - 2015-04-29 03:04:12 UTC  |  Edited by: Trakow
AayJay Crendraven wrote:
Trakow wrote:
Wrong. As for your mention of TS3, see the Third Party Policy under Client Modification, which states:

"the use of programs that provide in-game overlays (Mumble, Teamspeak) is not something we plan to actively police at this time."

So you can throw that argument out as they specifically mentioned them. Double-standard or not, it's their rules. As for Fraps or Shadowplay, they capture, they don't change anything within the game environment.
VideoFX uses Innerspace and provides windows within the DirectX window. This clearly violates EULA
6A2) "You may not use your own or third-party software to modify any content appearing within the Game environment or change how the Game is played."
Very clear.


Wrong. VideoFX displays screens onto Windows Aero, not the clients directly. I told you this ages ago.
Additionally, dxNothing is not under CCP's purview and does not violate 6A2 unless you restrict everyone to a given window size and resolution.

It's painfully obvious you don't know what you're talking about as well.
ISBoxer is the program that generates the "barebones" profiles that Inner Space "reads". ISBoxer's profiles include FPS limits, proper CPU management, and monitor setups and tiling.
VideoFX is a feature of Inner Space and utilizes Windows Aero.

And finally, ISBoxer used to be "... not actively police[d]...". The sudden reversal of one program's stance does not immediately mean every other program is suddenly safe. Look at cache scraping, for heavens sake. It's explicitly disallowed by the EULA and TOS, and then CCP turned around and said it was explicitly allowed for market shenanigans but disallowed for other stuff.


If any of the game is being displayed in a dxnothing windows it's already changing the game environment and how it's played. You're now taking cutout pieces from multiple clients placed into another box and interacting with them.

Also, CCP can change their mind on what they do and don't police whenever they want. It's their right to. Just like if they decide one day that TS3 can no longer be used, well that's fine too.
Trakow
Beta Switch
#4256 - 2015-04-29 03:07:32 UTC
AayJay Crendraven wrote:
Trakow wrote:
That's what I expect them to say, and it's very clear.


You clearly missed the first post that said to ask any questions about ISBoxer or any activity that remotely relates to ISBoxer in a ticket. We have been asking for the past 6, 7, 8? months, and we keep getting referred to the thread here when our questions are not answered either explicitly or even via a loose interpretation of what was stated.


And you once again clearly missed their policy:

Trakow wrote:

THIRD-PARTY POLICIES :

"Please use player-made or other third party software at your own risk."
GankYou
9B30FF Labs
#4257 - 2015-04-29 03:10:54 UTC
Arthur Aihaken wrote:


Cartman puts it even more mildly, than it actually is. Blink

Page forty nine, brother!
ISD Dorrim Barstorlode
ISD Community Communications Liaisons
ISD Alliance
#4258 - 2015-04-29 19:45:21 UTC
Removed some posts discussing moderation. Please stop doing that.

ISD Dorrim Barstorlode

Senior Lead

Community Communication Liaisons (CCLs)

Interstellar Services Department

Kinete Jenius
Republic Military School
Minmatar Republic
#4259 - 2015-04-29 23:38:31 UTC
I have uploaded videos of me running one of each vanguard site on my youtube account. These videos include all the screens I use.

In case you wonder what it's like to run without any third party tools other then windows and the drivers required to interact with eve.
Shinta Kobi
Percussive Diplomacy
Sedition.
#4260 - 2015-04-30 17:50:29 UTC
Just to remind people, you don't technically 'own' the account you use, CCP does(as stated in the EULA).


With that being said, it's simple:

Play by the rules, you get to keep playing. Break them and they take the game away from you. Smile