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Update regarding Multiboxing and input automation

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Archibald Thistlewaite III
The Royal Society for the Prevention of Miners
#3801 - 2015-03-20 15:14:51 UTC  |  Edited by: Archibald Thistlewaite III
Charadrassote wrote:


They can't monitor my programs. or do they use some strange backdoor to give user started processes admin rights on windows?


EULA 7-D You agree to let them monitor your game hardware. If they actually do or not is a different matter.

Charadrassote wrote:


I have 10 boxes.
i have a 120 key keyboard. free programmable.
i have my first row setup to F1 each box individually.
For example. F1 is activating F1 on Box 1. F2 is activating F1 on Box 2. and so on.
this way i can fire within one second all boxes. without using broadcast. without using macros without automation. just using my ten fingers. tell me. do i violate the eula?


Yes you are. Specifically the bit I quoted earlier.
6-2 wrote:
You may not use your own or third-party software to modify any content appearing within the Game environment or change how the Game is played..


When I multibox I have to change the focus onto the client I want to control. If that is on 1 monitor then I alt-tab. If I'm using multiple monitors I have to click some where within the client to shift focus. Your method seems to bypass that.

Charadrassote wrote:
Edith says: all my boxes are visible. not in the background
and i am using videofx to display a few informations on my mainscreen.


Not really enough detail, but it sounds like its a type of 'dashboard' set up I mention in the previous post. So against the EULA.

I'm now going to share a setup for multiboxing which does not bteak the EULA.

I have 10 accounts. I'm going to run incursions with 7 Domi, 1 Loki(drone bunny) and 2 Guardians. (I don't care that this fleet set up is useless.)
I only have 1 big monitor so I'm going to run them all through that.
I use a third party multiboxing program (isboxer or a different one) to set up my screen.
On tab 1 I have a Guardian2 top left (TL) and 3 Domi top right (TR) bottom left (BL) and bottom right (BR).
On tab 2 I have 4 Domi (TL),(TR),(BL),(BR).
On tab 3 I have the Loki and a Guardian1 side by side.
(All the clients are intact with no over lays cutting out or what ever. They all look like a single client would on its own)

(I don't care that my tactics will most likely get all my ships blown up)
I start with tab 3 and fleet warp everyone in. Activate gate with the Loki select Guardian1 activate gate.
Alt-tab to tab 1
Activate gate with (TL)then with (TR),(BL),(BR)
Alt-tab to tab 2
Activate gate (TL),(TR),(BL),(BR)
Alt-tab to tab 3
Guardian1 locks Guardian2 for cap transfer and locks Loki.
Alt-tab to tab 1
Guardian2 locks Guardian1 for cap transfer and locks loki and any Domi taking damage (Activate RAR if needed)
Domi (TR) deploys drones and assigns to Loki, forms up on anchor. Domis (BL),(BR) do the same.
Alt-tab to tab 2.
Domis (TL),deploy drones assign them to Loki and form up on anchor. (TR),(BL),(BR) do the same.
Alt-tab to tab 3
Guardian1 locks Domis applies RAR as needed. Loki starts attacking NPCs.
Alt-tab to tab 1
Guardian2 activate/deactivate swap RAR onto ships as needed.
Alt-tab to 2
Alt-tab to 3
Switch between Loki and Guardian1 as needed, as well as alt-tab to tab 1 to update Guardian2.

The above is a EULA compliant way to multi-box using a third party program.

User of 'Bumblefck's Luscious & Luminous Mustachio Wax'
Archibald Thistlewaite III
The Royal Society for the Prevention of Miners
#3802 - 2015-03-20 15:24:02 UTC  |  Edited by: Archibald Thistlewaite III
Nolak Ataru wrote:

Today I Learned: Asking someone to back up or support a statement they made is a Very Bad Thing. News at 11.


This coming from someone who repeatedly refused to back up their own statements. Hypocrite.

I did do as you suggested though and looked through the Multibox forums and guess what I found (keepclicking)

I guess we know why you wouldn't back up your own statements now.

User of 'Bumblefck's Luscious & Luminous Mustachio Wax'
kraken11 jensen
ROOKS AND KRAKENS
#3803 - 2015-03-20 15:27:37 UTC
JGar Rooflestein wrote:
Input Broadcasting's Unfair Advantage:
Normal Fleet 20 people- FC" primary is 123 everyone target 123 primary 123." 20 people have to find 123 and target then point and attack. roughly 5 seconds maybe less or more for all 20 to target him.

Multi box fleet- Turn on input broadcast all target 123. All do this with in milliseconds from each other.

Huge gain in this as you can see you dont have to rely on others to target as you know that 90% of the time all 20 will target that guy.

Round Robin:
Round robin does send 1 command to 1 client but at will send that command as fast as you can click or activate that shortcut. So you can send 1 command to 20 accounts seperetly yes but with in milliseconds.

Huge gain as a normal fleet will some times take 1 to 5 seconds yet again to activate the modules.


Honestly if you used the Input Broadcasting and Round Robin features there should be no argument on why they banned it. The argument is for them to be more open about whats now allowed.



depends on players. and they don't have to find the person if the fc broadcast the target. they just have to click ctrl and click on the broadcasted target... (in the fleet window) (I going to post something) https://zkillboard.com/kill/39564164/ (when it still was allowed) Lol. Ewar screwed me up. and that I sucked playing that way screwed me up. (and I only killed some t1 stuff I think) and I lost in total 216 mil when that happened. (not included drones) Lol -.- (not broadcasting targets made that happened to me I suppose) you know, click x on target. and then, but whatever. ewar.. yeah..
Charadrass
Angry Germans
#3804 - 2015-03-20 15:38:38 UTC
Archibald Thistlewaite III wrote:

Charadrassote wrote:


They can't monitor my programs. or do they use some strange backdoor to give user started processes admin rights on windows?


EULA 7-D You agree to let them monitor your game hardware. If they actually do or not is a different matter.

They CANT. Not possible in VM plus you dont gain admin rights.

Archibald Thistlewaite III wrote:

Yes you are. Specifically the bit I quoted earlier.

If you might point out where i am using third party software for doing that?
i am using my ten fingers plus a keyboard with 1 command per keypress.

Archibald Thistlewaite III wrote:

[quote=6-2]You may not use your own or third-party software to modify any content appearing within the Game environment or change how the Game is played..


open your ******* eyes, we are not modifiying anything from eve.

You can with normal windows internal software make all boxes believe they are running activated. and you can send keypresses to them directly. without using third party software. what now? banning windows?
Archibald Thistlewaite III
The Royal Society for the Prevention of Miners
#3805 - 2015-03-20 16:29:18 UTC  |  Edited by: Archibald Thistlewaite III
Charadrass,I'm on my phone now so please forgive the formatting/spelling.

By agrreing to the eula you allow CCP to monitor your gaming hardware. Whether they actually do or not doesn't matter.

The third party program would be the program that lets you use F1 on client 1 whilst F2 goes to client 2. The eve client on its own doesn't allow you to do that.

A third party program is any program that is not part of the eve client. So your operating system would be classed as a third party program form the perspective of Eve's eula. That does not mean your operating system breaks the eula or that it should result in you being banned just for using it. It does not mean you are aloowed to use it to break the eula either though.

I'm trying to help, so please stop being rude. I've managed to get a look at some of the emails form the GM team and they all seem to be the same and very clear.

The people being banned are breaking the eula 6-2 that I have mentioned. I would like to help you multi-box without you getting banned but I'm not sure if that'a a lost cause or not.

Edit: It is a lost cause. Well you will end up getting banned and you will only have yourself to blame.

User of 'Bumblefck's Luscious & Luminous Mustachio Wax'
Charadrass
Angry Germans
#3806 - 2015-03-20 16:53:31 UTC
Archibald Thistlewaite III wrote:

By agrreing to the eula you allow CCP to monitor your gaming hardware. Whether they actually do or not doesn't matter.

CCP CANT... it is not a matter of allowing. you cant scan something where windows dont gives you permissions to. get that into your skull.

Archibald Thistlewaite III wrote:

The third party program would be the program that lets you use F1 on client 1 whilst F2 goes to client 2. The eve client on its own doesn't allow you to do that.

Would be windows 7 in my case then.

Archibald Thistlewaite III wrote:

A third party program is any program that is not part of the eve client. So your operating system would be classed as a third party program form the perspective of Eve's eula. That does not mean your operating system breaks the eula or that it should result in you being banned just for using it. It does not mean you are aloowed to use it to break the eula either though.

pretty weird huh? windows can get you banned :)

We get the message from ccp, that input multiplexing and broadcasting is banable.
we multibox without and still might get banned <--- THAT is the problem
no we dont have interpreted the eula in another way. we just dont do that what falcon posted.
we dont broadcast, we dont use macros, we dont multiplex.

just one command. with one finger. to one box.
nothing more. that is not macroing, it is not broadcasting.
it is called typing. with 10 fingers.ffs

is ccp going to reglement the usage of fingers now?
ISD Decoy
ISD Community Communications Liaisons
ISD Alliance
#3807 - 2015-03-20 18:54:43 UTC
I have removed a ranting disrespectful post.

Quote:
2. Be respectful toward others at all times.

The purpose of the EVE Online forums is to provide a platform for exchange of ideas, and a venue for the discussion of EVE Online. Occasionally there will be conflicts that arise when people voice opinions. Forum users are expected to be courteous when disagreeing with others.

3. Ranting is prohibited.

A rant is a post that is often filled with angry and counterproductive comments. A free exchange of ideas is essential to building a strong sense of community and is helpful in development of the game and community. Rants are disruptive, and incite flaming and trolling. Please post your thoughts in a concise and clear manner while avoiding going off on rambling tangents.

ISD Decoy

Captain

Community Communication Liaisons (CCLs)

Interstellar Services Department
JGar Rooflestein
Thunderwaffe
Goonswarm Federation
#3808 - 2015-03-20 19:39:32 UTC  |  Edited by: JGar Rooflestein
Charadrass wrote:
Archibald Thistlewaite III wrote:

By agrreing to the eula you allow CCP to monitor your gaming hardware. Whether they actually do or not doesn't matter.

CCP CANT... it is not a matter of allowing. you cant scan something where windows dont gives you permissions to. get that into your skull.

They can. You say they can't. Look at Blizzard. They use Warden. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Warden_%28software%29
You down load the game you accept the EULA and they are now allowed to run what they need most likely installed during the initial install.

-JGar "Great man once said nothing."
ashley Eoner
#3809 - 2015-03-20 20:09:14 UTC
JGar Rooflestein wrote:
Charadrass wrote:
Archibald Thistlewaite III wrote:

By agrreing to the eula you allow CCP to monitor your gaming hardware. Whether they actually do or not doesn't matter.

CCP CANT... it is not a matter of allowing. you cant scan something where windows dont gives you permissions to. get that into your skull.

They can. You say they can't. Look at Blizzard. They use Warden. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Warden_%28software%29
You down load the game you accept the EULA and they are now allowed to run what they need most likely installed during the initial install.

Indeed since you can easily opt out by not playing the game it's legal in the USA at least.
Aru Kacbis Danvill
Science and Trade Institute
Caldari State
#3810 - 2015-03-21 03:04:43 UTC
ashley Eoner wrote:
JGar Rooflestein wrote:
Charadrass wrote:
Archibald Thistlewaite III wrote:

By agrreing to the eula you allow CCP to monitor your gaming hardware. Whether they actually do or not doesn't matter.

CCP CANT... it is not a matter of allowing. you cant scan something where windows dont gives you permissions to. get that into your skull.

They can. You say they can't. Look at Blizzard. They use Warden. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Warden_%28software%29
You down load the game you accept the EULA and they are now allowed to run what they need most likely installed during the initial install.

Indeed since you can easily opt out by not playing the game it's legal in the USA at least.

Sorry not true. See you can't break laws. No matter if I agree or not

http://www.reddit.com/r/Eve/comments/2z1dn6/isboxer_essay/

https://scontent-atl.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-xpf1/v/t1.0-9/11037717_10202501843106735_4596834953263635890_n.jpg?oh=940016d62d1e31a87ecc7362438ee1c6&oe=557244E3

Yep..
ashley Eoner
#3811 - 2015-03-21 05:38:00 UTC
Aru Kacbis Danvill wrote:
ashley Eoner wrote:
JGar Rooflestein wrote:
Charadrass wrote:
Archibald Thistlewaite III wrote:

By agrreing to the eula you allow CCP to monitor your gaming hardware. Whether they actually do or not doesn't matter.

CCP CANT... it is not a matter of allowing. you cant scan something where windows dont gives you permissions to. get that into your skull.

They can. You say they can't. Look at Blizzard. They use Warden. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Warden_%28software%29
You down load the game you accept the EULA and they are now allowed to run what they need most likely installed during the initial install.

Indeed since you can easily opt out by not playing the game it's legal in the USA at least.

Sorry not true. See you can't break laws. No matter if I agree or not

warden gameguard punkbuster VAC and more all do that. Good luck with fighting that.
Lady Rift
His Majesty's Privateers
#3812 - 2015-03-21 08:07:04 UTC
Charadrass wrote:
Archibald Thistlewaite III wrote:

By agrreing to the eula you allow CCP to monitor your gaming hardware. Whether they actually do or not doesn't matter.

CCP CANT... it is not a matter of allowing. you cant scan something where windows dont gives you permissions to. get that into your skull.

Archibald Thistlewaite III wrote:

The third party program would be the program that lets you use F1 on client 1 whilst F2 goes to client 2. The eve client on its own doesn't allow you to do that.

Would be windows 7 in my case then.

Archibald Thistlewaite III wrote:

A third party program is any program that is not part of the eve client. So your operating system would be classed as a third party program form the perspective of Eve's eula. That does not mean your operating system breaks the eula or that it should result in you being banned just for using it. It does not mean you are aloowed to use it to break the eula either though.

pretty weird huh? windows can get you banned :)

We get the message from ccp, that input multiplexing and broadcasting is banable.
we multibox without and still might get banned <--- THAT is the problem
no we dont have interpreted the eula in another way. we just dont do that what falcon posted.
we dont broadcast, we dont use macros, we dont multiplex.

just one command. with one finger. to one box.
nothing more. that is not macroing, it is not broadcasting.
it is called typing. with 10 fingers.ffs

is ccp going to reglement the usage of fingers now?



you havent been banned yet so what is the problem?
Vaju Enki
Secular Wisdom
#3813 - 2015-03-21 15:16:18 UTC
You guys are EvE's cancer. You should all be banned.

The Tears Must Flow
Charadrass
Angry Germans
#3814 - 2015-03-21 15:18:20 UTC
None of the Petitioned question is beeing answered on Team security on fan fest.

nice ccp. ignoring us again.
ShadowandLight
Trigger Happy Capsuleers
#3815 - 2015-03-21 15:21:50 UTC
Team Security said regarding VFX / Rollover and Round-Robin to "Read the EULA"

And that it would be too complicated to give an answer to everyone's questions (hopefully someone goes to the panel and asks directly)

Legacy - An EVE Online Blog

Legacy of a Capsuleer Podcast

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Charadrass
Angry Germans
#3816 - 2015-03-21 15:43:24 UTC
i dont use roll over or round Robin.
vfx is also not changing the eve Client as ccp random tried to tell us.
it is like pointing a Webcam to a specific part of your Monitor and displaying it on another. which is legal btw.
Sumeragy
Nemesis Logistics
Goonswarm Federation
#3817 - 2015-03-21 15:45:38 UTC
That others got doing the same, meaning "Some people are more equal than others". Clearify whats allowed and whats not, should be easy. As others says CCP knows what you are doing, at least they keep saying that, talk to us, give us a clear statement.
Vaju Enki
Secular Wisdom
#3818 - 2015-03-21 15:53:16 UTC
Sumeragy wrote:
That others got doing the same, meaning "Some people are more equal than others". Clearify whats allowed and whats not, should be easy. As others says CCP knows what you are doing, at least they keep saying that, talk to us, give us a clear statement.


Use a keyboard and a mouse, then look at you your screen and play the game. It's that simple, you don't need a manual.

The Tears Must Flow
Nolak Ataru
Hedion University
Amarr Empire
#3819 - 2015-03-21 15:59:14 UTC
For the record: We did attempt to reach out to CCP and discuss this issue. CCP Falcon promised to sit down after Jan1, a promise which he broke. CCP has not shown any reason why ISBoxer is in violation of the EULA, and to say that ISBoxer violates 6A2 would mean banning TS3 / Overwolf and Mumble overlays as well, not to mention the headache associated with Steam's overlay.
And nobody has yet even come close to proving that ISBoxer violates 6A3 while ignoring EFT/Pyfa/Fuzzworks.
ShadowandLight
Trigger Happy Capsuleers
#3820 - 2015-03-21 16:25:39 UTC
I would like to point out that if your not allowed to use rollover buttons on the client because it violates the "client modification" rule, then you can just easily put it on a black dxnothing window instead.

That presentation was pretty useless.

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