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Update regarding Multiboxing and input automation

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Drago Shouna
Doomheim
#3281 - 2015-01-29 21:50:55 UTC
Verisimilidude 001 wrote:
corebloodbrothers wrote:
...taking cate of multiboxing as unfair advantage is somthing which the 99 procent of gamers agree with and which keeps them playing eve.

Each time changes come poeple will whine and *****, which doesnt make it w bad thing for the long term heatlh of eve online


Citation required.

Based off the CSM minutes and the devblog, it seems like you guys had to work pretty hard to convince CCP to change their stance on multiplexing. Is that the case?

Furthermore, I want to see a breakdown of which CSM members were for/against the issue. We as voters deserve the right to know your position on multiplexing/multiboxing.

corebloodbrothers wrote:
Comming back from ccp visit in iceland ee have seen how they handle the detection and follow up on boxer use. I can asure hou its very carefull and i was amazed at the detials and insight. I cant tell what and so ofc, to breach my non dosclosure.


So, you're *assuring me* that CCP can differentiate between someone sending keyclicks to different clients very quickly (a la https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HhAk7EMDjvE&feature=youtu.be) and multiplexing to multiple accounts? You can promise me that?


You deserve a ban...you are sending one click to multiple clients...without even clicking!!

Solecist Project...." They refuse to play by the rules and laws of the game and use it as excuse ..." " They don't care about how you play as long as they get to play how they want."

Welcome to EVE.
Nolak Ataru
Hedion University
Amarr Empire
#3282 - 2015-01-29 21:54:12 UTC
Drago Shouna wrote:
You deserve a ban...you are sending one click to multiple clients...without even clicking!!

Except he isn't. He's sending multiple commands by using a mouse xy action, much the same way one would bind "Fire" as wheel down in a FPS to turn semi-auto rifles into automatics. Multiple inputs for multiple actions.
Drago Shouna
Doomheim
#3283 - 2015-01-29 22:01:06 UTC
Nolak Ataru wrote:
Drago Shouna wrote:
You deserve a ban...you are sending one click to multiple clients...without even clicking!!

Except he isn't. He's sending multiple commands by using a mouse xy action, much the same way one would bind "Fire" as wheel down in a FPS to turn semi-auto rifles into automatics. Multiple inputs for multiple actions.


Yes he is..How is he targetting?

If, as he says, the afterburners were bombs, and the cloaks..well cloaks.

Btw, I don't play fps...ever.

Solecist Project...." They refuse to play by the rules and laws of the game and use it as excuse ..." " They don't care about how you play as long as they get to play how they want."

Welcome to EVE.
Nolak Ataru
Hedion University
Amarr Empire
#3284 - 2015-01-29 22:13:55 UTC  |  Edited by: Nolak Ataru
Drago Shouna wrote:
Nolak Ataru wrote:
Drago Shouna wrote:
You deserve a ban...you are sending one click to multiple clients...without even clicking!!

Except he isn't. He's sending multiple commands by using a mouse xy action, much the same way one would bind "Fire" as wheel down in a FPS to turn semi-auto rifles into automatics. Multiple inputs for multiple actions.


Yes he is..How is he targetting?
If, as he says, the afterburners were bombs, and the cloaks..well cloaks.
Btw, I don't play fps...ever.


OK, to explain the FPS thing for those who are unaware: In (for example) COD4, there are guns that do a lot of damage (M14, M21, G3, pistols, etc), but are semi-automatic. They fired as fast as you could click the mouse button, however, unlike the Battlefield series, they didn't have a "minimum cool down" time after they fired to prevent abuse. People would bind "Fire" as "Scroll Wheel Down" and the gun would fire as fast as they could scroll the wheel with the only downside being high recoil. The Battlefield fixed this by implementing a minimum "cool down" time where another fire command would not fire the gun.

Back to EVE: He broadcasts a target.
One set of "rollover bars" sends a "CTRL+Click" command to the Fleet Window on the bottom where broadcasted targets appear.
Then the rest do their thing.

Edit: Bomb launchers are non-targeted devices. He wouldn't need to target something to use them.
Sgt Ocker
What Corp is it
#3285 - 2015-01-30 00:34:45 UTC  |  Edited by: Sgt Ocker
Mara Rinn wrote:
Sgt Ocker wrote:
Mara Rinn wrote:
ShadowandLight wrote:
An Incursion multi-boxer apparently was banned.

http://www.dual-boxing.com/threads/51980-Banned-FUNNY-STORY?p=396264#post396264

GG CCP, minus 10? accounts for someone who (per his statements) wasnt using input duplication at all.

I really hope all this is worth it for a company who's had enough subscription problems as it is.


Cheater's gonna cheat. "Never used macros."

Nothing in that thread says he wasn't using input duplication. Also note that CCP will ban all your accounts for a EULA violation involving any of your accounts. This is known, and has been the case since around the time of Unholy Rage.

I think you might want to read his thread again. Guilty until proven innocent, what a wonderful world we live in.
He states he was banned for macro use, then goes on to say he never used macros, although does have a text block macro setup for another game. (having played the game he refers to, a text block macro would be a must)


Interesting, If the author of the linked thread is being honest, it would seem CCP's spy software is able to detect macro capable hardware attached to a players machine. If you have macros in place for any use, Eve related or not, you now run the risk of being banned at CCP's discretion and good luck proving you are innocent of any wrong doing.


Oh, I believe him when he says he doesn't use macros in EVE.

I don't believe that he was banned for "macro use".

I believe he was banned for input broadcasting, and is purposefully avoiding telling us that he was doing that to convince people that CCP are bad, horrible people who arbitrarily ban people for no good reason.

Solo incursion fleet runner gets banned by CCP for breach of EULA regarding automation of game play. Which story do you believe: "CCP made a mistake, this guy was legitimately playing using Alt+Tab and directing individual commands to individual windows" or "CCP didn't make a mistake, this guy was using input broadcasting or keystroke multiplication of some kind."

And there is the million dollar question.

Was he banned for macro use?
Did CCP make a mistake?
Was he simply using ALT+TAB very efficiently which provided CCP with a false positive?
Both stories dispute he did anything wrong. I think that in itself would be enough to cast doubt as to his guilt?
We will never know..

I have a friend runs an incursion fleet, he uses ISBoxer but not the broadcasting feature. I have often done logi for his fleet and watching it is a sight to see. I multibox but could never hope to control a small fleet as well as he does.

A computer and the software on it are only as smart as the person operating it. Once software has done its job (in this case detected a problem) the interpretation of what it found and subsequent action taken, is down to a human. A human then makes a decision on what to do next. Humans make mistakes (that is why we use computers).

I got a letter from a Doctor about 12 months ago confirming I was pregnant (joy of joys).
Information on a computer, interpreted by a human who trusted what the computer told them, had me making history (I am a 55 year old man)

My opinions are mine.

  If you don't like them or disagree with me that's OK.- - - - - - Just don't bother Hating - I don't care

It really is getting harder and harder to justify $23 a month for each sub.
kraken11 jensen
ROOKS AND KRAKENS
#3286 - 2015-01-30 14:49:20 UTC  |  Edited by: kraken11 jensen
btw, just to add something. i watched someone bomb us by alt tabbing today (at least he said) seems fully viable, and i believe him. nicely done. impressive. I'm glad he managed it as good as he did :D it was fun seeing :) (as i said) impressive :) Pirate


Edit: Its impressive whatever, Isb or not. or some other window setup program'etc, who knows. it was Nice done.

I dont rage/etc when someone got an Falcon alt, or links. or multiple charaters anyway. it even happends that i use just 1 charater (not that ofen) but i dont mind. and i really did not mind when that guy bombed us today With multiple accounts, i just thought it was funny :) i suppose. idk what more to say atm.
Marsha Mallow
#3287 - 2015-01-30 18:40:57 UTC
kraken11 jensen wrote:
I dont rage

That's an appalling attitude and possibly a bannable offense. Reported.

Ripard Teg > For the morons in the room:

Sweets > U can dd my face any day
Alavaria Fera
GoonWaffe
#3288 - 2015-01-30 22:17:53 UTC
kraken11 jensen wrote:
btw, just to add something. i watched someone bomb us by alt tabbing today (at least he said) seems fully viable, and i believe him. nicely done. impressive. I'm glad he managed it as good as he did :D it was fun seeing :) (as i said) impressive :) Pirate


Edit: Its impressive whatever, Isb or not. or some other window setup program'etc, who knows. it was Nice done.

Did you or anyone in the group referenced by "us" make sure to petition him anyway, to be sure? You didn't just blindly trust their word for it, right?

I think one of our multiboxers was petitioned before despite not actually bombing on a particular op. He showed up in local and apparently that + bombs flying was enough...

Triggered by: Wars of Sovless Agression, Bending the Knee, Twisting the Knife, Eating Sov Wheaties, Bombless Bombers, Fizzlesov, Interceptor Fleets, Running Away, GhostTime Vuln, Renters, Bombs, Bubbles ?
Sgt Ocker
What Corp is it
#3289 - 2015-01-30 23:00:42 UTC
Alavaria Fera wrote:

Did you or anyone in the group referenced by "us" make sure to petition him anyway, to be sure? You didn't just blindly trust their word for it, right?

I think one of our multiboxers was petitioned before despite not actually bombing on a particular op. He showed up in local and apparently that + bombs flying was enough...


Ouch - The Eve Sandbox just got a little bit smaller and less desirable.

I wonder if CCP intentionally went this direction, or was it just another ill thought out plan.
Create mistrust - introduce basically ineffective change.
Encourage player policing - creates more mistrust
Mistrust creates ill will and loss of more players. How much longer can Eve continue by alienating its player base with nerfs, secrecy and lies?

Alvaria Fera - You might want to step back and ask yourself why you play Eve.
Is it to do CCP's job and report players because they were using a certain ship type?
Reporting someone just because they are good with bombs is not reason enough. Playing a game with the belief everyone around you is cheating is not playing a game. You might want to consider chess.

My opinions are mine.

  If you don't like them or disagree with me that's OK.- - - - - - Just don't bother Hating - I don't care

It really is getting harder and harder to justify $23 a month for each sub.
Alavaria Fera
GoonWaffe
#3290 - 2015-01-31 04:41:34 UTC
Sgt Ocker wrote:
Alavaria Fera wrote:

Did you or anyone in the group referenced by "us" make sure to petition him anyway, to be sure? You didn't just blindly trust their word for it, right?

I think one of our multiboxers was petitioned before despite not actually bombing on a particular op. He showed up in local and apparently that + bombs flying was enough...


Ouch - The Eve Sandbox just got a little bit smaller and less desirable.

I wonder if CCP intentionally went this direction, or was it just another ill thought out plan.
Create mistrust - introduce basically ineffective change.
Encourage player policing - creates more mistrust
Mistrust creates ill will and loss of more players. How much longer can Eve continue by alienating its player base with nerfs, secrecy and lies?

Alvaria Fera - You might want to step back and ask yourself why you play Eve.
Is it to do CCP's job and report players because they were using a certain ship type?
Reporting someone just because they are good with bombs is not reason enough. Playing a game with the belief everyone around you is cheating is not playing a game. You might want to consider chess.

I don't know. Ask uh, I think it was n3 guys that reported our bomber guy.

So ask them.

Triggered by: Wars of Sovless Agression, Bending the Knee, Twisting the Knife, Eating Sov Wheaties, Bombless Bombers, Fizzlesov, Interceptor Fleets, Running Away, GhostTime Vuln, Renters, Bombs, Bubbles ?
ashley Eoner
#3291 - 2015-01-31 05:24:32 UTC
Alavaria Fera wrote:
Sgt Ocker wrote:
Alavaria Fera wrote:

Did you or anyone in the group referenced by "us" make sure to petition him anyway, to be sure? You didn't just blindly trust their word for it, right?

I think one of our multiboxers was petitioned before despite not actually bombing on a particular op. He showed up in local and apparently that + bombs flying was enough...


Ouch - The Eve Sandbox just got a little bit smaller and less desirable.

I wonder if CCP intentionally went this direction, or was it just another ill thought out plan.
Create mistrust - introduce basically ineffective change.
Encourage player policing - creates more mistrust
Mistrust creates ill will and loss of more players. How much longer can Eve continue by alienating its player base with nerfs, secrecy and lies?

Alvaria Fera - You might want to step back and ask yourself why you play Eve.
Is it to do CCP's job and report players because they were using a certain ship type?
Reporting someone just because they are good with bombs is not reason enough. Playing a game with the belief everyone around you is cheating is not playing a game. You might want to consider chess.

I don't know. Ask uh, I think it was n3 guys that reported our bomber guy.

So ask them.
How did you even find out?
Sgt Ocker
What Corp is it
#3292 - 2015-01-31 08:20:38 UTC
ashley Eoner wrote:
Alavaria Fera wrote:
Sgt Ocker wrote:
Alavaria Fera wrote:

Did you or anyone in the group referenced by "us" make sure to petition him anyway, to be sure? You didn't just blindly trust their word for it, right?

I think one of our multiboxers was petitioned before despite not actually bombing on a particular op. He showed up in local and apparently that + bombs flying was enough...


Ouch - The Eve Sandbox just got a little bit smaller and less desirable.

I wonder if CCP intentionally went this direction, or was it just another ill thought out plan.
Create mistrust - introduce basically ineffective change.
Encourage player policing - creates more mistrust
Mistrust creates ill will and loss of more players. How much longer can Eve continue by alienating its player base with nerfs, secrecy and lies?

Alvaria Fera - You might want to step back and ask yourself why you play Eve.
Is it to do CCP's job and report players because they were using a certain ship type?
Reporting someone just because they are good with bombs is not reason enough. Playing a game with the belief everyone around you is cheating is not playing a game. You might want to consider chess.

I don't know. Ask uh, I think it was n3 guys that reported our bomber guy.

So ask them.
How did you even find out?

ashley - Good Question +1


Alvaria - the conspiracy ever widens

My opinions are mine.

  If you don't like them or disagree with me that's OK.- - - - - - Just don't bother Hating - I don't care

It really is getting harder and harder to justify $23 a month for each sub.
Nolak Ataru
Hedion University
Amarr Empire
#3293 - 2015-01-31 14:19:23 UTC
Kinda obvious when they're in local screaming their heads off about a botter....
ashley Eoner
#3294 - 2015-01-31 20:27:40 UTC
Nolak Ataru wrote:
Kinda obvious when they're in local screaming their heads off about a botter....

Ah the same way I knew I was being reported :P
Nolak Ataru
Hedion University
Amarr Empire
#3295 - 2015-01-31 20:57:39 UTC
Kinda like that scene from Jurassic Park 2, where they're trying to find the T-Rex. Jeff Goldblum's character said "Follow the screams".

Same concept.
Sgt Ocker
What Corp is it
#3296 - 2015-01-31 22:40:30 UTC
Nolak Ataru wrote:
Kinda like that scene from Jurassic Park 2, where they're trying to find the T-Rex. Jeff Goldblum's character said "Follow the screams".

Same concept.

But does any of this justify reporting everyone you see with more than 1 bomber?



Pretty soon the only thing left in Eve resembling a sandbox will be the current attitudes of many of its players - Kids (players) running to Mom (CCP) because the big kid kicked over their castle.

My opinions are mine.

  If you don't like them or disagree with me that's OK.- - - - - - Just don't bother Hating - I don't care

It really is getting harder and harder to justify $23 a month for each sub.
Nolak Ataru
Hedion University
Amarr Empire
#3297 - 2015-01-31 23:05:21 UTC
Sgt Ocker wrote:
But does any of this justify reporting everyone you see with more than 1 bomber?

No. And it never justified the idiots whining and comparing an ISBoxed, focused, max skilled, max equipment fleet to a kitchen sink fleet and crying "unfair advantage!

Sgt Ocker wrote:
Pretty soon the only thing left in Eve resembling a sandbox will be the current attitudes of many of its players - Kids (players) running to Mom (CCP) because the big kid kicked over their castle.

Like I said, I never thought the EVE Onion blog would ring true, but it did.
ShadowandLight
Trigger Happy Capsuleers
#3298 - 2015-01-31 23:06:10 UTC
Sgt Ocker wrote:
Nolak Ataru wrote:
Kinda like that scene from Jurassic Park 2, where they're trying to find the T-Rex. Jeff Goldblum's character said "Follow the screams".

Same concept.

But does any of this justify reporting everyone you see with more than 1 bomber?



Pretty soon the only thing left in Eve resembling a sandbox will be the current attitudes of many of its players - Kids (players) running to Mom (CCP) because the big kid kicked over their castle.



Wonder if we can report the reporters? Harassment is also against the EULA!

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Charadrass
Angry Germans
#3299 - 2015-02-01 00:08:56 UTC
as Long as we dont know the names...ccp is protecting those thugs.
Sgt Ocker
What Corp is it
#3300 - 2015-02-01 00:49:34 UTC
Nolak Ataru wrote:
Sgt Ocker wrote:
But does any of this justify reporting everyone you see with more than 1 bomber?

No. And it never justified the idiots whining and comparing an ISBoxed, focused, max skilled, max equipment fleet to a kitchen sink fleet and crying "unfair advantage!

Sgt Ocker wrote:
Pretty soon the only thing left in Eve resembling a sandbox will be the current attitudes of many of its players - Kids (players) running to Mom (CCP) because the big kid kicked over their castle.

Like I said, I never thought the EVE Onion blog would ring true, but it did.


Welcome to the NewEveOnline
The mighty GSF at work
Quote:
I must've sent in something like 50 petitions during the course of the battle and CCP nerfed everything I complained about! It was awesome!"

We can't beat'em so lets use CCP to do it for us.

The end is nigh.,.

My opinions are mine.

  If you don't like them or disagree with me that's OK.- - - - - - Just don't bother Hating - I don't care

It really is getting harder and harder to justify $23 a month for each sub.