EVE General Discussion

See? You and I disagree on a basic thing, there. People are not willing to abide by the rules, they will begrudgingly strip the rules to the thinnest of edges and then try to lawyer an extra advantage out of them if at all possible.

Or maybe I know meaner people than you do.

So CCP is faced with the dilemma of black and white 'this is the line' or a grey area where they can evaluate things on a case by case basis. You say they did the latter but I think they have been fairly forthcoming in saying 'you multi-broadcast? you gone'. 'you publish private communication with GMs? You gone.' Not too, grey an area, in my opinion.

Doing my job? I am. I am here talking to you and listening. I am following the occasional isboxer thread when it is linked to me.

But.

CSM (contrary to some folks conspiracy theories) has little to do with bannings. We do not oversee that. We discuss the results (after) or the reasons(before) with CCP but we are not the security oversight committee. But I wade through threads like this because I do think it is one of my tasks. To know what the issues are and to be able to discuss them with CCP and with you.

If you get banned your name and accused crime is published Name and shame
If the ban is overturned you get an apology. . . and the egg is on CCP's face.
This would bypass all the secrecy and let people know that this is a place where rules are enforced.

I do NOT CARE that they were not enforced before, they ARE NOW. Do not drag up ancient history. Argue your point from todays rules, not yesterdays.

Guys, you're missing one simple fact of life.

If a guy is going to install a botting software such as ███████, and the botting software is directly breaking the EULA even with a nice black line in the sand, he's going to do it no matter how nebulous the grey area is. However, make the grey area nebulous enough to obscure the line, and people will use programs that are just barely crossing the line, or just barely legal. This is (and was) the current situation that CCP is entangled in.

You could just stop botting, and trying to justify it.

Only replying to this part:

I have been here long enough to say that most of the time someone says "i was not banned for doing x. i was not even using x" 99% of the time they are lying.

The Word of the Dev:

In the beginning God created the video game. But his creation was formless and empty of social interaction as it was designed for individual players, alone in their bedrooms.
And God said, “Let there be MMOs,” and there were MMOs. 4 God saw that the MMO was good, and he witnessed the individual players come together to play with one another.
Then God said, “let there be the sandbox where my creation can be free to choose their path,” and his creation so chose to be free of artificial constraints.
Then God said, “let the players create multiple accounts and so that my creation can take on the roles of the many.”
And the players did expand their subscriptions and with it the labor of their works.
He called these of his creation, multiboxers
God saw all that he had made, and it was good. He looked upon his creation and their multiple accounts and was indeed content.
But the players were not alone with God. Hiding amongst God’s other creations were those who would seek to change his sandbox and blaspheme his works.
These fallen angels brought forth new works in order to lure his creation into taking more from the sandbox, but with less effort.
Some spewed forth demonic automation, which was purged by the caretakers of the sandbox. However, other lesser demons, known as the ISBoxerites, sought to hide their works from him by hiding among the multiboxers.

The ISBoxerites hid in the shadows for generations, taking more from the sandbox than was due from their efforts.
And while the caretakers of the sandbox looked the other way, God’s creation cried out, “Lord, why hast thou forsaken us? Why do you allow the work of the heretics to go unpunished, while those most loyal to your Word are forced to labor under your vague law?”
And God heard his people’s cry of whoa, and sent forth Archangel Falcon to spread a new word.
No longer would the ISBoxerites and other lesser demons be allowed to take from the farm and from the field more than was equitable to the measure of their labors.
And the ISBoxerites screamed out in rage and **** posts at the lessening of their status in the sandbox.
But God saw that their claims and cries were without merit and denounced them as the unfaithful.
No longer would they be allowed to hide among the multiboxers and no longer would they take more than was their due.
And the ISboxerites were forced to conform or leave the sandbox forever.

This is the word of the Dev – Thanks be to the Dev

i'm just gonna quote myself (again)



Free your mind from the fact that everyone in here that is against the bans is using ISBoxer... Lots of people multibox in eve. Rumor has it, that some of these innocent people have been banned and as far as my knowledge goes, there are lots if people MULTIBOXING WITHOUT THE USE OF ANY KIND OF PROGRAM BUT ONLY USING THEIR HANDS (i hope this is clear now) which now are threatened of being banned just for commanding more than one client at one time.
We ask meaningful, well thought through questions and as far as we are allowed to talk about stuff without getting censored we try to bring in evidence.

And then theres people like you just throwing in constructive stuff like
"ALL MULTIBOXERS ARE BAD"
and
"IF YOU ARE USING A PROGRAM YOU SHOULD BE BANNED"

Feel free to read what this is all about on the last pages and then comment again

You made the botting remarks yourself. I've highlighted them, see.

CCP also appear to class 'input automation' as botting:

I could rephrase the question. Why don't you just stop using ISBoxer and trying to justify it?

'Just barely crossing the line' sounds to me like 'I demand the right to cheat and then try to weasel out of it by claiming I didn't know it was cheating, because being told this action will result in a ban simply wasn't clear enough. Give me a list of clear rules so I can actively break all of the ones you forgot to mention. Oh, and I demand an apology, this is an outrage.'

If I was referring to ISBoxer, the █ block would have been replaced with "ISBoxer". As it wasn't, it should have been painfully clear to even Greedy Goblin that I was referring to an outside bot program that was NOT ISBoxer. Input automation is the automation of inputs that no longer require a human to be sitting behind the keyboard pressing buttons. I don't understand how this is not clear. Ford's automatic factories are called "automatic" because the robots can do all the work with a skeleton crew of humans to sit in a booth or walk around making sure the robotic arms didn't weld each other to the frame.