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Update regarding Multiboxing and input automation

First post First post First post
Author
Haplo Bartow
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#2861 - 2014-12-28 01:24:31 UTC
How about letting us log into the game with multiple characters from a single account using multiple machines (or even on the same machine)? That would be nice.
Rosewalker
Khumaak Flying Circus
#2862 - 2014-12-28 01:52:53 UTC
ShadowandLight wrote:
heres a quick video, more proof of concept, showing how isboxer mouseovers can be used to very quickly activate dozens of modules

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HhAk7EMDjvE&feature=youtu.be


You really are on a campaign to get Inner Space banned from EVE Online. That video may actually succeed in convincing CCP to ban it. Too bad. I really like the way that ISBoxer allows Laz to switch screens effortlessly during his streams. It really adds some production value.

The Nosy Gamer - CCP Random: "hehe, falls under the category: nice try, but no. ;)"

Nolak Ataru
Hedion University
Amarr Empire
#2863 - 2014-12-28 01:56:26 UTC
Rosewalker wrote:
You really are on a campaign to get Inner Space banned from EVE Online. That video may actually succeed in convincing CCP to ban it. Too bad. I really like the way that ISBoxer allows Laz to switch screens effortlessly during his streams. It really adds some production value.


If anyone's on a crusade here, it's you. Please don't try to project your actions onto others.
Rain6637
GoonWaffe
Goonswarm Federation
#2864 - 2014-12-28 03:16:28 UTC
ISBoxer has been a crutch that EVE has leaned on to avoid supporting multiboxing in the client. Multiple clients are marketed as a thing, and I think it's assumed by everyone that multiple clients will be used advantageously and simultaneously, including in combat. I like to think that the sooner ISBoxer is banned, EVE will finally support multiple clients within the client.
Nolak Ataru
Hedion University
Amarr Empire
#2865 - 2014-12-28 04:02:46 UTC
Rain6637 wrote:
ISBoxer has been a crutch that EVE has leaned on to avoid supporting multiboxing in the client. Multiple clients are marketed as a thing, and I think it's assumed by everyone that multiple clients will be used advantageously and simultaneously, including in combat. I like to think that the sooner ISBoxer is banned, EVE will finally support multiple clients within the client.


Uh.... you do know that WoW has macro support right? It allows a player to re-direct keys on their keyboard to certain spells, abilities, and items in the game. If I could bind a macro to tell my ship to stop firing, swap crystals, and then continue firing, that'd be lovely.

You also assume that every player with multiple accounts puts in the same effort as everyone else with the same amount of accounts, and that ISBoxer somehow affects the income of each toon. I find that claim (with no supporting evidence, btw) funnyas I know a nullsec pilot who cranks out quite a lot of ISK with a relatively lower effort involved. EVE is all about min/maxing, and right now you and others like are annoyed that people found a new way to min/max in such a visible fashion, or because of some bizarre belief that ISBoxers aren't subjected to risk/isk, or that we somehow hacked into CCP's servers and gave ourselves free accounts. I dunno where these ideas came from, and I'm not sure I can get drunk enough to find out before I die to liver failure.
Rain6637
GoonWaffe
Goonswarm Federation
#2866 - 2014-12-28 04:12:10 UTC
I might have said something about income somewhere, so I'll take your word for it. I'm not, however, annoyed at ISBoxer, and we have coexisted in EVE peacefully. I am amused that EVE is bringing itself closer to tackling the issue of supporting multiple clients natively.
Nolak Ataru
Hedion University
Amarr Empire
#2867 - 2014-12-28 04:24:36 UTC
Rain6637 wrote:
I might have said something about income somewhere, so I'll take your word for it. I'm not, however, annoyed at ISBoxer, and we have coexisted in EVE peacefully. I am amused that EVE is bringing itself closer to tackling the issue of supporting multiple clients natively.

Look, if EVE manages to basically copy/paste ISBoxer into EVE, congrats. Still won't change the fact that the input ban was brought about by the SJW idiots of EVE, it won't change the fact that people won't trust CCP after this kerfluffle, and it certainly won't change the fact that people will think that CCP pulled a Sony by attempting to force the competition's product off the market so they can release a crappy version themselves.
Athryn Bellee
Pandemic Horde Inc.
Pandemic Horde
#2868 - 2014-12-28 04:37:13 UTC
ShadowandLight wrote:
heres a quick video, more proof of concept, showing how isboxer mouseovers can be used to very quickly activate dozens of modules

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HhAk7EMDjvE&feature=youtu.be


How is this different?
Rain6637
GoonWaffe
Goonswarm Federation
#2869 - 2014-12-28 04:38:27 UTC
I think it's simple, without all the video tricks. Basically more leadership commands like warp and regroup. Which is not so far-fetched, unlike the task of implanting ISBoxer into the client.
Nolak Ataru
Hedion University
Amarr Empire
#2870 - 2014-12-28 04:40:13 UTC
Rain6637 wrote:
I think it's simple, without all the video tricks. Basically more leadership commands like warp and regroup. Which is not so far-fetched, unlike the task of implanting ISBoxer into the client.

If you could give us some examples of leadership commands that aren't already in the client, then we can talk.
A lot of time and effort was put into making ISBoxer compatible with the EVE client. Just because it seems easy from the outside world doesn't mean it's easy behind-the-scenes.
Rain6637
GoonWaffe
Goonswarm Federation
#2871 - 2014-12-28 04:51:44 UTC
Nolak Ataru
Hedion University
Amarr Empire
#2872 - 2014-12-28 05:00:46 UTC
Rain6637 wrote:
lock target, activate DPS, align to, jump, dock.


So...... Das Boot/slowcat/Ishtar fleet, but even more AFK? At that point, it's no longer "log archon in, go to POS, assign drones, go AFK till Mumble Ping tells you to jump to next cyno" but "log in, join fleet, go afk".
Rain6637
GoonWaffe
Goonswarm Federation
#2873 - 2014-12-28 05:03:06 UTC
those are balance issues, while ISBoxer is an issue of CCP selling a product (multiple clients) without supporting it.
Nolak Ataru
Hedion University
Amarr Empire
#2874 - 2014-12-28 05:14:56 UTC
Rain6637 wrote:
those are balance issues, while ISBoxer is an issue of CCP selling a product (multiple clients) without supporting it.

So wait, that's a balance issue and we should forgive CCP and give them all the breaks and all the time in the world to change, but using ISBoxer to control multiple accounts is unforgivable and must be stamped out at all costs, even though there were hundreds of threads in F&I regarding reasonable ways to balance ISBoxer and EVE?

Double standards like this make me lose faith in humanity. Please get off your high horse.
Rain6637
GoonWaffe
Goonswarm Federation
#2875 - 2014-12-28 05:16:52 UTC
bombs and drones are broken for other reasons. bombs because they're AOE, and drones because they're automated.

I'm not sure what you mean by high horse. you'll have to explain that one to me before I can respond.
Nolak Ataru
Hedion University
Amarr Empire
#2876 - 2014-12-28 05:26:08 UTC
Rain6637 wrote:
bombs and drones are broken for other reasons. bombs because they're AOE, and drones because they're automated.
I'm not sure what you mean by high horse. you'll have to explain that one to me before I can respond.

I'll retract my high horse statement if you explain why you're willing to give CCP a free pass regarding supers, drones, bombs, and incursions, while at the same time wanting to tar and feather ISBoxers.

If bombs and drones are indeed broken, and since they're one of the things the whiners bring up regarding ISBoxer, why not fix them?
Rain6637
GoonWaffe
Goonswarm Federation
#2877 - 2014-12-28 05:32:28 UTC
I can't really answer that, and I guess I'm treating it like a foregone conclusion because I'm mostly helpless to CCP's balance decisions. I think requiring a lock would fix drones, and bombs could use a bit less HP to bring them down from the 7x limit. I'd like to see both multibox support and module imbalance handled together. over this issue, even.
Nolak Ataru
Hedion University
Amarr Empire
#2878 - 2014-12-28 05:56:01 UTC
Forgive me for being optimistic in this case. I was unaware it was against the EULA. I'm trying my damned best to remain optimistic but it's damn hard. With CCP's new patch timeline, I would've rather them attempt to balance the issues at hand before resorting to outright bans and prohibitions. Call me old fashioned if you like, but I see bans and prohibitions as a last resort.
Rain6637
GoonWaffe
Goonswarm Federation
#2879 - 2014-12-28 06:43:55 UTC
Updates seem to come slowly. Not sure what's up with that. I don't hold this issue against CCP -too much- because it makes sense to me how we got here. And it's just a situation, not necessarily one where one party has to "lose." By accident, the EVE client lended itself reasonably well to controlling multiple instances, and at some point CCP went with it and started peddling the idea. Then players wanted to make it easier, and some used ISBoxer.

I think, instead of being ok with ISBoxer for this long, CCP should have looked at what players were using ISBoxer for, and attempted to provide support for those actions in the client. I think then, the issues of scalability would make themselves more apparent, and faster, so they can be balanced.

I understand why some people think it would be a travesty to openly support multiboxing, but I think that goes back to the basic disagreement between players who are willing to play harder, and those who are not. However, with in-client support, any player can participate in the type of coordination and synchronization enjoyed by ISBoxer users.

Ethically, any dilemmas are solved by encouraging fleet gameplay (lol friends?) to make use of the ISBoxer-type multibox support that could be provided in the client.

I just see it as a matter of being a responsible merchant, and supporting their product. In the meantime, with ISBoxer out of the picture, collecting money for multiple subscriptions is just irresponsible on CCP's part. It strikes me as deadbeat behavior.
Adrie Atticus
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#2880 - 2014-12-28 06:52:01 UTC
Athryn Bellee wrote:
ShadowandLight wrote:
heres a quick video, more proof of concept, showing how isboxer mouseovers can be used to very quickly activate dozens of modules

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HhAk7EMDjvE&feature=youtu.be


How is this different?


I see one action doing one thing on one client, I'm not sure why people are even taking a second look at this. To stop something like this, CCP needs to ban the use of keyboards and the behaviour you see there can be done with any number of tools. These tools include all accessibility tools for the disabled.

Tread carefully.