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Update regarding Multiboxing and input automation

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Tyranis Marcus
Bloody Heathens
#2701 - 2014-12-20 11:40:44 UTC  |  Edited by: Tyranis Marcus
..........nevermind. I'll be nice.

Do not run. We are your friends.
Lucas Kell
Solitude Trading
S.N.O.T.
#2702 - 2014-12-20 11:42:36 UTC
Alkeli Dallocort wrote:
I don't know what you guys are on about... Round robin still automatically switches from client to client, hence "automation". They've even said that complex macros from certain keyboards are also considered automation.

In any case, this argument is stupid, and I'll be glad to see all the accounts get banned one by one. Even if CCP lets round robin slip through the cracks, they won't for long. It's just a matter of time and that will be against the rules as well, so enjoy while you can I guess lol
You can call it whatever you want, that doesn't make it so. When you use it, only 1 command goes to only 1 client, which means it's not broadcasting. Look at CCP Randoms legality flowchart and you'll see.

And they'll "let it slip through the cracks" because it's impossible to tell if someone is using round robin vs manual multiboxing as only 1 commands is sent at a time.

Giribaldi wrote:
[quote=Nolak Ataru]Sir I'm speaking after the change hits. It's already been speculated that over 2000 accounts used for is boxing mining fleets and HQ fleets and bomber fleets, ect ect will be dismantled and characters sold. 2,000. That's a huggggge hit on demand granted that is a very low estimate and will likely be in the 10 range. I'm not crying btw, in fact I'm out raged by them changing this, I supported people using is boxer as it made certain thinks more obtainable to a single person.
That is a figure pulled out of someone's ass, not based in fact. Not to mention that if you think they are being sold, that's 2 more PLEX used for the sale + a PLEx for the new destination account for that character (which is likely to be a separate account as it's an active alt, not a passive one). So according to you, we'll use 4000 extra PLEX then continue consuming them at the same rate?

The truth is very few people will quit, PLEX will still be highly sought after, PLEX price will continue to rise once the current speculations clears, and next year we will pass 1b/PLEX. To be honest I've seen it argued that the current drop we have is the main one, since most people who quit over the change will have already quit or at least already stopped subbing, since if they sub now they will have at least 20 days per account in January they won''t even use.

The Indecisive Noob - EVE fan blog.

Wholesale Trading - The new bulk trading mailing list.
Tyranis Marcus
Bloody Heathens
#2703 - 2014-12-20 11:44:15 UTC
On a more positive note, thank god for the change!

ISBoxer is great for some things, but I can't imagine ever using it for a game like Eve. It will be good to see those particular mining fleets take a hit.

Do not run. We are your friends.
Alavaria Fera
GoonWaffe
#2704 - 2014-12-20 15:48:07 UTC
Lucas Kell wrote:
That is a figure pulled out of someone's ass, not based in fact.

Haha, expecting something better from eveo general discussion?

I think not.

Triggered by: Wars of Sovless Agression, Bending the Knee, Twisting the Knife, Eating Sov Wheaties, Bombless Bombers, Fizzlesov, Interceptor Fleets, Running Away, GhostTime Vuln, Renters, Bombs, Bubbles ?
Nolak Ataru
Hedion University
Amarr Empire
#2705 - 2014-12-20 18:48:43 UTC
Tyranis Marcus wrote:
It will be good to see those particular mining fleets take a hit.


It may slow down their fleets a tiny bit, but for the most part Round Robin and repeater regions will allow them to keep running.
Hallvardr
#2706 - 2014-12-21 00:20:41 UTC  |  Edited by: Hallvardr
Nolak Ataru:
Quote:
Boxed miners have been running massive numbers even without the use of ISBoxer or similar programs.
Correct. However, my point is that 20-30 (hu)man mining (or "the gate people") fleet ops while they do happen, are not the norm. In general, when there is a 20-30 man mining group, its a "isboxer" fleet. isboxer fleets at any activity that they are used in, are far more prevalent than discrete human control.


Lucas Kell:
Quote:
20 characters can be controlled for mining manually with ease
-> perhaps ... but video longer than 30 minutes ore it didn't happen. Cool (see what I did there)

Quote:
...you don't do it therefore nobody else should be allowed.
I hope you were saying this as a generalization and not to me specifically. I've already established my stance,
"I could care less about isboxer .. I'm not a user."
"if I did and it hampered my progress, I'd adapt."

So for me .. i don't care either way which is also why I'd held off my opinion as long as I had.
Nolak Ataru
Hedion University
Amarr Empire
#2707 - 2014-12-21 00:43:03 UTC
Hallvardr wrote:
Nolak Ataru:
Quote:
Boxed miners have been running massive numbers even without the use of ISBoxer or similar programs.
Correct. However, my point is that 20-30 (hu)man mining (or "the gate people") fleet ops while they do happen, are not the norm. In general, when there is a 20-30 man mining group, its a "isboxer" fleet. isboxer fleets at any activity that they are used in, are far more prevalent than discrete human control.


We're gonna have to disagree here as I'm pretty sure most corps who do run mining ops sure as heck aren't going to do it in unprofitable highsec. I was in TEST and I remember some of the massive mining ops that occurred in nullsec.

Hallvardr wrote:
Lucas Kell:
Quote:
20 characters can be controlled for mining manually with ease
-> perhaps ... but video longer than 30 minutes ore it didn't happen. Cool (see what I did there)
Quote:
...you don't do it therefore nobody else should be allowed.
I hope you were saying this as a generalization and not to me specifically. I've already established my stance,
"I could care less about isboxer .. I'm not a user."
"if I did and it hampered my progress, I'd adapt."

So for me .. i don't care either way which is also why I'd held off my opinion as long as I had.


Nobody's going to watch a fleet of miners mine for 30 minutes no matter how much isk/h you get. Liberal application of Alt+Tab can get it done easily.
It's "couldn't care less".

As for the other quote, he was relaying the sentiments of some other posters both in this thread and in GD in general. The "I don't do it therefore nobody should be allowed to ISBox" argument was quite common among those who wanted CCP to bend to their will. To those, I would like to quote a CCP Dev: "HTFU".
Gabriel Elarik
Celestiel Rams
#2708 - 2014-12-21 03:42:02 UTC
i think most isboxer users will switch to dxnothing windows or simply switch between windows
that means mining will stay the same incursions are tricky but i think possible without broadcasting
and ratting will stay mostly the same multiboxers will find ways to adapt to the changes
Nolak Ataru
Hedion University
Amarr Empire
#2709 - 2014-12-21 04:02:31 UTC
Gabriel Elarik wrote:
i think most isboxer users will switch to dxnothing windows or simply switch between windows
that means mining will stay the same incursions are tricky but i think possible without broadcasting
and ratting will stay mostly the same multiboxers will find ways to adapt to the changes


For VGs, people are heading towards Domis / Rattlesnakes and a Loki (with one enterprising person planning on Nestors).
For HQs, round-robin broadcasting is the key.
Drago Shouna
Doomheim
#2710 - 2014-12-21 10:12:21 UTC
Nobody seems to have linked this in here yet, so here goes.

http://community.eveonline.com/news/dev-blogs/holiday-greetings-team-security/?_ga=1.56703274.1259077967.1406127097

Solecist Project...." They refuse to play by the rules and laws of the game and use it as excuse ..." " They don't care about how you play as long as they get to play how they want."

Welcome to EVE.
Jadzia-Dax
Yar's Revenge
#2711 - 2014-12-21 10:49:31 UTC  |  Edited by: Jadzia-Dax
ShadowNeo29 wrote:
Yeah finally.

ISBoxer would never have been allowed according to the EULA.

But ! We know some people will get a free ban because the dectection is not perfect.
And sadly GMs don't care about what they do, fair or not.

After investigations, we can say they also ban players who play normally and they don't care about the 2 strike policy: http://community.eveonline.com/news/dev-blogs/begun-the-bot-war-has/ and allow themselves to ban for life.


But like in real life, justice allow some collateral damages. Nothing personal.
Just FYI, ISBoxer is not banned. One single feature (not even the most important feature) is banned. Seems like you missed that.[/quote]


"You may not use your own or any third-party software, macros or other stored rapid keystrokes or other patterns of play that facilitate acquisition of items, currency, objects, character attributes, rank or status at an accelerated rate when compared with ordinary Game play"

ISBoxer is a third-party software used for facilitate stuff's acquisition. It's not a normal gameplay than "just an human" multiboxer without any program (switching windows or using several computers, all manually).[/quote]

ShadowNeo29 - You have no clue what you are talking about!! You have no idea how ISBoxer or other boxing programs work!! You also have no clue what part of the EULA applies to boxing! You should educate yourself before you post!! The only part of the the EULA that applies to ISBoxer of other types of boxing programs is the "Broadcasting and Multiplexing". The part of the EULA you posted does not apply to boxing but to botting. WOW just another cryer giving out tears due to not knowing what they are posting about!!

FYI, I could box 2-30 accounts and never use the "Broadcasting or Multiplexing" feature ISBoxer has and still remain within the EULA and never, I repeat Never get banned.

Please, get educated on the topic, the EULA and what applies, and the software before you post and make yourself look foolish!!

Cry on Multi boxing haters! lol @ your tears!!
Hexxas kozak
Hexxas kozak Corporation
#2712 - 2014-12-21 13:18:43 UTC  |  Edited by: Hexxas kozak
So basically what CCP is saying people that have 2 accounts gets a ban for using both accounts the same time ?

Thats pretty lame and you will be shooting you self in the foot with this , so you no longer allowed to make window mode running the game and have an account on each of your screens , so no more orca and mining barge combo , honestly that a big mistake , considdering there soon will be a release of another space game where you can upgrade and mine as well, mabee you guys havent thought this one completely thrue?.
You will be loosing so many players if this effect 2 accounts on 1 computer with 2 screens , so you basically punish players with more than 1 screen.

Are you trying to kill the game ?

If so then there is as faster way to do it , just shut down the servers and be done with it .

Punishing people that have 2 monitors on the same computer is not some thing you do , i can understand botting and macro scripting , but banning people for running 2 accounts on the same time , thats bulls....

People that crys about multi account is normaly the ones that cant affort to have 2 accounts,
but hey i can take my money some where else if cant run my orca and mining barge. thats around 200 dkr a month you loose just by doing this and if others that have 2 accounts do this as well then game will die.

So good luck with that !

I would like a dev to respond to this please and fast so if needed i can cancel my 2 accounts faster !
Navigation Boy
Edge Dancers
Pan-Intergalatic Business Community
#2713 - 2014-12-21 14:00:19 UTC
Hexxas kozak wrote:
So basically what CCP is saying people that have 2 accounts gets a ban for using both accounts the same time ?

If you are running multiple clients on multiple screens, and issue commands to each screen separately, you'll be fine.
I dual-box all the time, and this won't effect me either.
Hexxas kozak
Hexxas kozak Corporation
#2714 - 2014-12-21 14:23:21 UTC
okay thank you ,
but i really want to hear this from a CCP Dev team member or high ranking GM
Stouman
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#2715 - 2014-12-21 16:28:26 UTC
Thanks CCP! Good riddance!

You kill the jackal! You see here a jackal corpse. This jackal corpse tastes terrible! You finish eating the jackal corpse.
Hallvardr
#2716 - 2014-12-21 16:30:57 UTC
Hexxas kozak: "want to hear this from a CCP" <- you already have .. read the numerous posts ad infinitum.

just as Navigation Boy just said and has been stated repeatedly.
Demolishar
United Aggression
#2717 - 2014-12-21 16:32:13 UTC
CCP Falcon wrote:

If you are uncertain about your Input Broadcasting and Input Multiplexing use-case, please get in contact with us, as we would prefer to work with members of the community to come to an amicable resolution. We will also follow up this statement with further clarifications if needed, based on questions and concerns from the community.



How may I get in contact with you about my input broadcasting use-case?

I have already tried a support ticket - the reply was not helpful.

The reply consisted of a canned statement stating that GM will not advise me on any use-case outside of the ones expressly stated in CCP Falcon's post.
Nyx Tamer
Thats my BOI
#2718 - 2014-12-21 19:23:27 UTC  |  Edited by: Nyx Tamer
well, following the very helpful and supportive petition, I gotta ask it here:

I use ISBoxer cause I only have one 1366*768 screen on my laptop, so I can't see the other characters (2) , and EVE in windowed mode is NOT able to fit properly on the whole screen as there is a minimal resolution the client has.

So I use ISBoxer to run 3 clients in Fullscreen (taskbar excluded), 2 scouts and 1 I actually use.
Long story short: Am I allowed to use the VideoFX feature to show me parts of the scouts as overlay on the mainscreen?
As much as I know and asked so far it is ok, I do not use any input broadcasting or whatever some people are extremly energetic discussing here, but I'd like to know if this is ok as I had a **** ton of a discussion this afternoon about it.

**// I hope CCP does not expect me to read through 136 pages of senseless omahgawdisboxeristhedevilthxubannedit rage.
Trakow
Beta Switch
#2719 - 2014-12-21 20:06:21 UTC
Nolak Ataru wrote:
Tyranis Marcus wrote:
It will be good to see those particular mining fleets take a hit.


It may slow down their fleets a tiny bit, but for the most part Round Robin and repeater regions will allow them to keep running.


You do realize that the mouse is also an input device right? So one click to select an object either from the overview or from the screen for multiple clients is also considered input broadcasting. But if you're going to individually click on each window or overview one at a time then have at it. But I'm sure most people don't realize the mouse is also considered input. This will still get many ppl the 30-day ban, and will make ISBoxing that much less useful.

And also, round robin can still be considered automation because isboxer automatically changed the input focus after each button press without user input to do so.
Nolak Ataru
Hedion University
Amarr Empire
#2720 - 2014-12-21 20:20:36 UTC
Trakow wrote:
Nolak Ataru wrote:
Tyranis Marcus wrote:
It will be good to see those particular mining fleets take a hit.


It may slow down their fleets a tiny bit, but for the most part Round Robin and repeater regions will allow them to keep running.


You do realize that the mouse is also an input device right? So one click to select an object either from the overview or from the screen for multiple clients is also considered input broadcasting. But if you're going to individually click on each window or overview one at a time then have at it. But I'm sure most people don't realize the mouse is also considered input. This will still get many ppl the 30-day ban, and will make ISBoxing that much less useful.

And also, round robin can still be considered automation because isboxer automatically changed the input focus after each button press without user input to do so.


Except according to the very childish flowchart, it's still only issuing one command per client and that's what counts. Which is exactly why we need CCP to release a statement regarding Round Robin, as well as their reasoning of why ISBoxer is the big bad demon in the room and not any of the other dozen or so in-game problems that are legitimately causing players to leave.