These forums have been archived and are now read-only.

The new forums are live and can be found at https://forums.eveonline.com/

EVE General Discussion

 
  • Topic is locked indefinitely.
 

Update regarding Multiboxing and input automation

First post First post First post
Author
Previous Topic Next Topic
Nolak Ataru
Hedion University
Amarr Empire
#2681 - 2014-12-20 00:56:03 UTC
Alkeli Dallocort wrote:
Need a tissue bud? Love the part about the scientist like as if isboxers are all smart and wizardry compared to everyone else. Which is so false and deluded, but you probably believe that. The fact is, anyone can ISBox, you're not special, nor are the other ISBoxers. It's just lazy and cowardly, and now it's cheating hahaha. And yes, the way to multibox is to have multiple inputs, which is fine by me. At least now someone can't control 12+ toons at once. But input broadcasting will still be discovered by CCP. It's really not that hard to figure it out.

Oh and please do continue to ISBox so you get banned. More fun for the rest of us.


I was attempting to draw a parallel between the townspeople's xenophobia and techno-phobia and the EVE population's boxer-phobia. I'm sorry if it went over your head. I'm not attempting to insult the playerbase or raise ISBoxers on a pedestal for all to adore. I'm pointing out the simple truth that the general player sees multiple accounts online at the same time and immediately screams "It's a bot! Save meh, CCP!" without bothering to check.

You clearly are one of the whiners since you didn't bother to read the OP where CCP stated in no uncertain terms that ISBoxing is still allowed, and as such your statements are irrelevant at best.

You also didn't bother to read any of the other posts in thread that stated that multibox mining / ice mining didn't really change much thanks to Round Robin Broadcasting. I shall look forward to your tears come Jan 1 when you see the same fleets in the belt.
Arthur Aihaken
CODE.d
#2682 - 2014-12-20 02:14:11 UTC
The tears of unfathomable sadness.

I am currently away, traveling through time and will be returning last week.
Nolak Ataru
Hedion University
Amarr Empire
#2683 - 2014-12-20 02:48:09 UTC
Arthur Aihaken wrote:
The tears of unfathomable sadness.


Keep projecting buddy.
Alkeli Dallocort
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#2684 - 2014-12-20 03:19:30 UTC  |  Edited by: Alkeli Dallocort
Nolak Ataru wrote:
Alkeli Dallocort wrote:
Need a tissue bud? Love the part about the scientist like as if isboxers are all smart and wizardry compared to everyone else. Which is so false and deluded, but you probably believe that. The fact is, anyone can ISBox, you're not special, nor are the other ISBoxers. It's just lazy and cowardly, and now it's cheating hahaha. And yes, the way to multibox is to have multiple inputs, which is fine by me. At least now someone can't control 12+ toons at once. But input broadcasting will still be discovered by CCP. It's really not that hard to figure it out.

Oh and please do continue to ISBox so you get banned. More fun for the rest of us.


I was attempting to draw a parallel between the townspeople's xenophobia and techno-phobia and the EVE population's boxer-phobia. I'm sorry if it went over your head. I'm not attempting to insult the playerbase or raise ISBoxers on a pedestal for all to adore. I'm pointing out the simple truth that the general player sees multiple accounts online at the same time and immediately screams "It's a bot! Save meh, CCP!" without bothering to check.

You clearly are one of the whiners since you didn't bother to read the OP where CCP stated in no uncertain terms that ISBoxing is still allowed, and as such your statements are irrelevant at best.

You also didn't bother to read any of the other posts in thread that stated that multibox mining / ice mining didn't really change much thanks to Round Robin Broadcasting. I shall look forward to your tears come Jan 1 when you see the same fleets in the belt.


So do show me exactly where they said ISBoxer was allowed other than logging in and client settings... The basic fact is that input broadcasting isn't allowed, which is really the problem.

You're obviously uneducated in these things, because you think round robin broadcasting will save you, which brings me to the second fact... If you knew anything, you would know that CCP already considers round robin against the EULA because then this is considered automation. Since the first button press counts as a user action, but the following "simulated button presses" are automated by the software. This goes way back to bots. So you're going to resort to an old violation method to circumvent the newest rules? LOL Ok.... So good luck with that and enjoy your ban. Worst rhetoric ever! Buy some kleenex dude.
Nolak Ataru
Hedion University
Amarr Empire
#2685 - 2014-12-20 04:05:18 UTC
Alkeli Dallocort wrote:
So do show me exactly where they said ISBoxer was allowed other than logging in and client settings... The basic fact is that input broadcasting isn't allowed, which is really the problem.

You're obviously uneducated in these things, because you think round robin broadcasting will save you, which brings me to the second fact... If you knew anything, you would know that CCP already considers round robin against the EULA because then this is considered automation. Since the first button press counts as a user action, but the following "simulated button presses" are automated by the software. This goes way back to bots. So you're going to resort to an old violation method to circumvent the newest rules? LOL Ok.... So good luck with that and enjoy your ban. Worst rhetoric ever! Buy some kleenex dude.


CCP Falcon wrote:
Going Forward
Based on the discussion in this area and our will to be more clear and concise with the community regarding this part of our rules, we have decided to also apply this two-strike policy to prohibited forms of Input Broadcasting and Input Multiplexing as of January 1st 2015.

If you are uncertain about your Input Broadcasting and Input Multiplexing use-case, please get in contact with us, as we would prefer to work with members of the community to come to an amicable resolution. We will also follow up this statement with further clarifications if needed, based on questions and concerns from the community.


Nowhere does he say that ISBoxer and other software is banned. They have been allowed since they existed as long as botting was not occurring (botting being defined separate from boxing as the automation of actions without requiring player input), and was re-affirmed as allowed circa April 2010.
What is being changed is usage of the Straight Broadcasting function of ISBoxer that allows a player to issue commands to multiple accounts at once.
Round Robin Broadcasting is still allowed under the new rules. One key press issues one command (or string of commands) to one client. Please research what you're crying over before making stupid statements. You MUST input a command for each client via Round Robin. Failure to input a command in Round Robin mode means it does not move to the next client.

*Passes the Kleenex over* Here, you're gonna need this.
Lucas Kell
Solitude Trading
S.N.O.T.
#2686 - 2014-12-20 04:29:08 UTC
Alkeli Dallocort wrote:
So do show me exactly where they said ISBoxer was allowed other than logging in and client settings... The basic fact is that input broadcasting isn't allowed, which is really the problem.

You're obviously uneducated in these things, because you think round robin broadcasting will save you, which brings me to the second fact... If you knew anything, you would know that CCP already considers round robin against the EULA because then this is considered automation. Since the first button press counts as a user action, but the following "simulated button presses" are automated by the software. This goes way back to bots. So you're going to resort to an old violation method to circumvent the newest rules? LOL Ok.... So good luck with that and enjoy your ban. Worst rhetoric ever! Buy some kleenex dude.
Lol. I never get tired of people who use the phrase "You're obviously uneducated" while simultaneously getting it all wrong.

Round robin, and VFX (with VFX being the one more likely to be used) isn't broadcasting and isn't a macro and as such is not banned. ISBoxer itself is not banned, only one feature - broadcasting. I mean on a technical level, nothing that ISBoxer does is banned, since ISBoxer is a configuration tool for the software Inner Space. It's the broadcasting function of Inner Space which is banned. All other methods of control which were not previously banned and can still make multiboxing take considerably less effort are still going to be allowed going forward.

All of this you can easily verify. I seriously cannot wait to see how people like you react when you realise most multiboxers have already adapted to the new methods of working.

The Indecisive Noob - EVE fan blog.

Wholesale Trading - The new bulk trading mailing list.
Lucas Kell
Solitude Trading
S.N.O.T.
#2687 - 2014-12-20 04:33:33 UTC
Trakow wrote:
Hahaha oh the tears of all the angry ISBoxers LOL
Yes yes, we've all heard the "OMG THE TEARS" meme, generally from incompetent players eager to make themselves feel better about being mediocre. To be honest, most ISBoxer users are pretty unphased, since it's going to change nearly nothing about how they play - which you'd know if you actually read the thread rather than trying to troll.

Trakow wrote:
Mad that now they have to actually Mine and PvP like they're supposed to.
Wrong. Round robin and VFX
Trakow wrote:
Mad cuz now they'll get their ass whooped flying solo.
Wrong - See above.
Trakow wrote:
Mad because now they actually have to make friends and get into a corp that isn't made up of all their own accounts.
Wrong, because multiboxing itself isn't banned (and beside that most of them live in NPC corps. Seriously, do you actually play EVE?)

I'll give that a 1/10, purely because I bothered replying.

The Indecisive Noob - EVE fan blog.

Wholesale Trading - The new bulk trading mailing list.
Alavaria Fera
GoonWaffe
#2688 - 2014-12-20 04:44:42 UTC
It was a pretty ... hmm I'll say medium-rate troll. If you improve it might be able to reach medium-high next time.

But don't spam it in local multiple times by using local chat broadcasting

Triggered by: Wars of Sovless Agression, Bending the Knee, Twisting the Knife, Eating Sov Wheaties, Bombless Bombers, Fizzlesov, Interceptor Fleets, Running Away, GhostTime Vuln, Renters, Bombs, Bubbles ?
Nolak Ataru
Hedion University
Amarr Empire
#2689 - 2014-12-20 04:47:33 UTC
Lucas Kell wrote:
I'll give that a 1/10, purely because I bothered replying.


I have to give him 3/10 tops for dedication.
Shalrath Kirben
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#2690 - 2014-12-20 04:58:23 UTC
A few years ago, there was a new MMO called Fallen Earth. Post apocalyptic hell would have been another good title. It was released with only the barest of tutorials and your toon was sent out into the wild with not much. God it was hard, but the challenge also made it fun. Fast forward and most of that game now has an easy mode, haven't played it in two years as a result.

My point? CCP just removed an easy mode from the game. Outstanding!
Nolak Ataru
Hedion University
Amarr Empire
#2691 - 2014-12-20 05:34:19 UTC
Shalrath Kirben wrote:
A few years ago, there was a new MMO called Fallen Earth. Post apocalyptic hell would have been another good title. It was released with only the barest of tutorials and your toon was sent out into the wild with not much. God it was hard, but the challenge also made it fun. Fast forward and most of that game now has an easy mode, haven't played it in two years as a result.

My point? CCP just removed an easy mode from the game. Outstanding!


ISBoxing was never "easy mode". If you're judging the ease of use / ease of setup of ISBoxer from the end-result videos of boxxed fleets running sites, you're saying that welding is easy after seeing a video of a 30-year pro make a perfect weld upside-down on two different metal compositions on a pipe. You're just seeing the end result (and maybe part of the process) and judging the entirety off of that. You aren't seeing the time put into learning the basics, fixing overviews and windows, getting everyone's skills and implants the exact same, fitting ships correctly to account for the difference in skill from your 100m sp god-toon to your 5m sp boxed fleet, getting fleet comp sorted, modules sorted, VFX sorted, broadcast keys sorted, global and local hotkeys sorted, emergency VFX in case SHTF and your primary dies, and any of the other thousand-and-one things that is involved when a player logs in or attempts to move a fleet to a certain location.

Source: I just graduated from a beginner-level welding program, and I've seen said 30-year vet work his magic.

3/10 I had fun.
Alkeli Dallocort
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#2692 - 2014-12-20 07:14:42 UTC
Nolak Ataru wrote:
Nowhere does he say that ISBoxer and other software is banned. They have been allowed since they existed as long as botting was not occurring (botting being defined separate from boxing as the automation of actions without requiring player input), and was re-affirmed as allowed circa April 2010.
What is being changed is usage of the Straight Broadcasting function of ISBoxer that allows a player to issue commands to multiple accounts at once.
Round Robin Broadcasting is still allowed under the new rules. One key press issues one command (or string of commands) to one client. Please research what you're crying over before making stupid statements. You MUST input a command for each client via Round Robin. Failure to input a command in Round Robin mode means it does not move to the next client.

*Passes the Kleenex over* Here, you're gonna need this.



Lucas Kell wrote:
Lol. I never get tired of people who use the phrase "You're obviously uneducated" while simultaneously getting it all wrong.

Round robin, and VFX (with VFX being the one more likely to be used) isn't broadcasting and isn't a macro and as such is not banned. ISBoxer itself is not banned, only one feature - broadcasting. I mean on a technical level, nothing that ISBoxer does is banned, since ISBoxer is a configuration tool for the software Inner Space. It's the broadcasting function of Inner Space which is banned. All other methods of control which were not previously banned and can still make multiboxing take considerably less effort are still going to be allowed going forward.

All of this you can easily verify. I seriously cannot wait to see how people like you react when you realise most multiboxers have already adapted to the new methods of working.



I don't know what you guys are on about... Round robin still automatically switches from client to client, hence "automation". They've even said that complex macros from certain keyboards are also considered automation.

In any case, this argument is stupid, and I'll be glad to see all the accounts get banned one by one. Even if CCP lets round robin slip through the cracks, they won't for long. It's just a matter of time and that will be against the rules as well, so enjoy while you can I guess lol
Alkeli Dallocort
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#2693 - 2014-12-20 07:17:11 UTC
Nolak Ataru wrote:
Shalrath Kirben wrote:
A few years ago, there was a new MMO called Fallen Earth. Post apocalyptic hell would have been another good title. It was released with only the barest of tutorials and your toon was sent out into the wild with not much. God it was hard, but the challenge also made it fun. Fast forward and most of that game now has an easy mode, haven't played it in two years as a result.

My point? CCP just removed an easy mode from the game. Outstanding!


ISBoxing was never "easy mode". If you're judging the ease of use / ease of setup of ISBoxer from the end-result videos of boxxed fleets running sites, you're saying that welding is easy after seeing a video of a 30-year pro make a perfect weld upside-down on two different metal compositions on a pipe. You're just seeing the end result (and maybe part of the process) and judging the entirety off of that. You aren't seeing the time put into learning the basics, fixing overviews and windows, getting everyone's skills and implants the exact same, fitting ships correctly to account for the difference in skill from your 100m sp god-toon to your 5m sp boxed fleet, getting fleet comp sorted, modules sorted, VFX sorted, broadcast keys sorted, global and local hotkeys sorted, emergency VFX in case SHTF and your primary dies, and any of the other thousand-and-one things that is involved when a player logs in or attempts to move a fleet to a certain location.

Source: I just graduated from a beginner-level welding program, and I've seen said 30-year vet work his magic.

3/10 I had fun.



Hahaha, you compare setting up ISBoxer to welding? LMAO Wow.... Just admit that it's "easy/lazy mode" already, otherwise, why would anyone do it?
Giribaldi
State War Academy
Caldari State
#2694 - 2014-12-20 07:20:58 UTC
Nolak Ataru wrote:
Giribaldi wrote:
Sir, bragging about your friend soloing C5 escalations is no great feet. 2 dreads 2 triage carriers and 2 loris or bhaalghorns. And I do that by myself and I assure you its a ******* easy feet to achieve. I'd like to see your friend solo 20 to 30 man fleets with 6 guys like I do. Put 6 manually controlled accounts into a chaotic and ever changing fight = incredibly difficult my friend.


I was merely attempting to point out other ways to make ISK with relatively few accounts for the butthurt people going "hurr need 50 accounts to make money". For those who complain because someone put the time, effort, and in some cases, real life cash, for multiple accounts, multiple accounts is encouraged by CCP and is practically required in order to be competitive in certain industries in EVE. Stop complaining because you didn't want to put effort into your game. Also, I only know of two VG boxers who are giving up boxing VGs, not including myself, out of a group of 10 VG boxers or so. The multibox-heavy community of DIN isn't worried about this, so that should tell you something.

As for your ridiculous statement regarding PLEX, it dipped to, what, 950, maybe 920, right after the announcement? If ISBoxing was the main cause of inflation, it should have theoretically dropped to the 6-700 levels. Don't come crying to the forums when it breaks 1b again, because you can't blame ISBoxers. You got the market speculators and hoarders to thank for that.


Sir I'm speaking after the change hits. It's already been speculated that over 2000 accounts used for is boxing mining fleets and HQ fleets and bomber fleets, ect ect will be dismantled and characters sold. 2,000. That's a huggggge hit on demand granted that is a very low estimate and will likely be in the 10 range. I'm not crying btw, in fact I'm out raged by them changing this, I supported people using is boxer as it made certain thinks more obtainable to a single person.
Nolak Ataru
Hedion University
Amarr Empire
#2695 - 2014-12-20 07:28:02 UTC
Alkeli Dallocort wrote:
I don't know what you guys are on about... Round robin still automatically switches from client to client, hence "automation". They've even said that complex macros from certain keyboards are also considered automation.

In any case, this argument is stupid, and I'll be glad to see all the accounts get banned one by one. Even if CCP lets round robin slip through the cracks, they won't for long. It's just a matter of time and that will be against the rules as well, so enjoy while you can I guess lol


Well, yes. Complex macros that don't require human input to continue to function are indeed against the EULA and can be considered automation because they do not require human input.

You just used an ad hominem fallacy, not to mention a (possible) tu quoque fallacy, a composition fallacy, and a personal incredulity fallacy in two paragraphs.

If you had any real argument as to why ISBoxer and/or broadcasting should be banned, let's hear it instead of continuing to attack me.
Nolak Ataru
Hedion University
Amarr Empire
#2696 - 2014-12-20 07:33:59 UTC
Alkeli Dallocort wrote:
Hahaha, you compare setting up ISBoxer to welding? LMAO Wow.... Just admit that it's "easy/lazy mode" already, otherwise, why would anyone do it?


Ad hominem again. I compared ISBoxer to welding because it was relevant to my experiences in life. I saw a video of a pro welding underwater (met Sweaty Bears in-game), I did my homework and figured out what I'd have to do to pursue said career (researched ISBoxer and it's possible violation of the EULA, including GM Lelouch's statement, without interference), and started classes (did the tutorials, started making basic configs, basic settings, etc). After a lot of practice (trial and error that cost me a lot of ISK and time) I graduated the basic class (got a setup to work reliably). I still have a way to go before I'm earning the big bucks in underwater construction (running at max efficiency), but practice makes perfect, and I was practicing.

If you want, I can probably make a similar setup with whatever career you're pursuing to make it easy to understand.
Nolak Ataru
Hedion University
Amarr Empire
#2697 - 2014-12-20 07:39:19 UTC
Giribaldi wrote:
Sir I'm speaking after the change hits. It's already been speculated that over 2000 accounts used for is boxing mining fleets and HQ fleets and bomber fleets, ect ect will be dismantled and characters sold. 2,000. That's a huggggge hit on demand granted that is a very low estimate and will likely be in the 10 range. I'm not crying btw, in fact I'm out raged by them changing this, I supported people using is boxer as it made certain thinks more obtainable to a single person.


[Citation Needed]. Until CCP states how many accounts they lost, I'm taking anything I read with a grain of salt given the hateboner the forum has for ISBoxer.

Mining is relatively unchanged. Round Robin undock, fleet warp, round robin lock roids, round-robin F1. Empty cargo as needed.
HQ fleets (not counting bikkus) are relatively unchanged. Round robin enter site, lock, F1, use regroup command so you don't go everywhere, rinse and repeat. Ask in the DIN-Flotten channel if you don't believe me.
VG fleets are switching to drone assisted RR Nestors, Domis, or Snakes, or (in one rare instance) FoF Tengus. Not too much broadcasting needed there, everything can pretty much be done with Round Robin and a complex-enough VFX screen.
Bomber fleets, bombs: Probably going to be limited to 7 bombers in terms of practicality, but I can't comment 100% since I have had no interaction with any of the bomber boxers.
Bomber fleets, torps: Again, round robin broadcasting saves the day.
ashley Eoner
#2698 - 2014-12-20 08:55:01 UTC
Alkeli Dallocort wrote:
Nolak Ataru wrote:
Trakow wrote:
Hahaha oh the tears of all the angry ISBoxers LOL

Mad that now they have to actually Mine and PvP like they're supposed to. Mad cuz now they'll get their ass whooped flying solo. Mad because now they actually have to make friends and get into a corp that isn't made up of all their own accounts.

Keep bringing on the complaints and the tears guys, I'm loving it lol


If you loved that, wait till you hear that ISBoxing will continue to happe. We'll still be running VGs, still run HQs, stilll mine ice, still mine ore.

A lot of us actually do have friends in the game who don't ISBox. We didn't start up EVE and instantly multibox. Nobody that I've encountered started EVE and ISBoxing at the same time. We have communities and groups that we hang out with, and we laugh and swap stories and have a good time while doing our thing.

Only tears I see are (to paraphrase from an old Tom Sawyer play) from the rabble who's coming after the scientist because they don't understand his work, and because he's different from them. Stop projecting your tears and rage onto us. 90% of us have already found a way to continue multiboxing.

Also, multiboxing does not make one unbeatable at PVP. I point you towards the video of the multiboxing Harbingers getting smacked down by a group of experienced, skilled, and well trained pilots using their heads and EWAR to turn the ISBoxer into nothing more than a nuisance at best.


Need a tissue bud? Love the part about the scientist like as if isboxers are all smart and wizardry compared to everyone else. Which is so false and deluded, but you probably believe that. The fact is, anyone can ISBox, you're not special, nor are the other ISBoxers. It's just lazy and cowardly, and now it's cheating hahaha. And yes, the way to multibox is to have multiple inputs, which is fine by me. At least now someone can't control 12+ toons at once. But input broadcasting will still be discovered by CCP. It's really not that hard to figure it out.

Oh and please do continue to ISBox so you get banned. More fun for the rest of us.
My VG fleet involves me controlling 12 accounts at the same time. Just because you're unable to multitask doesn't mean everyone else is as limited as you in their capabilities..
Sgt Ocker
What Corp is it
#2699 - 2014-12-20 11:04:36 UTC
Alkeli Dallocort wrote:
Nolak Ataru wrote:
Nowhere does he say that ISBoxer and other software is banned. They have been allowed since they existed as long as botting was not occurring (botting being defined separate from boxing as the automation of actions without requiring player input), and was re-affirmed as allowed circa April 2010.
What is being changed is usage of the Straight Broadcasting function of ISBoxer that allows a player to issue commands to multiple accounts at once.
Round Robin Broadcasting is still allowed under the new rules. One key press issues one command (or string of commands) to one client. Please research what you're crying over before making stupid statements. You MUST input a command for each client via Round Robin. Failure to input a command in Round Robin mode means it does not move to the next client.

*Passes the Kleenex over* Here, you're gonna need this.



Lucas Kell wrote:
Lol. I never get tired of people who use the phrase "You're obviously uneducated" while simultaneously getting it all wrong.

Round robin, and VFX (with VFX being the one more likely to be used) isn't broadcasting and isn't a macro and as such is not banned. ISBoxer itself is not banned, only one feature - broadcasting. I mean on a technical level, nothing that ISBoxer does is banned, since ISBoxer is a configuration tool for the software Inner Space. It's the broadcasting function of Inner Space which is banned. All other methods of control which were not previously banned and can still make multiboxing take considerably less effort are still going to be allowed going forward.

All of this you can easily verify. I seriously cannot wait to see how people like you react when you realise most multiboxers have already adapted to the new methods of working.



I don't know what you guys are on about... Round robin still automatically switches from client to client, hence "automation". They've even said that complex macros from certain keyboards are also considered automation.

In any case, this argument is stupid, and I'll be glad to see all the accounts get banned one by one. Even if CCP lets round robin slip through the cracks, they won't for long. It's just a matter of time and that will be against the rules as well, so enjoy while you can I guess lol

Round Robin is by no means automation, no matter which dictionary definition you choose to use.

1 key press 1 action, where is the automation?


My opinions are mine.

  If you don't like them or disagree with me that's OK.- - - - - - Just don't bother Hating - I don't care

It really is getting harder and harder to justify $23 a month for each sub.
Josef Djugashvilis
#2700 - 2014-12-20 11:11:12 UTC  |  Edited by: Josef Djugashvilis
This thread now reminds me of:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TobFGg7jTmg

Time to move on folks

This is not a signature.