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Update regarding Multiboxing and input automation

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Sgt Ocker
What Corp is it
#2541 - 2014-12-14 00:31:40 UTC
Lucas Kell wrote:
Sgt Ocker wrote:
Lucas your replies here show, you need to stop posting now.
Every sentence just makes you look more ignorant than the previous.
"Well first off, I unfortunately can't claim to be a goonie" - Should read; I am only a Goon pet
"because it was their (well our, the CFC) losses" - Not sure here but; Goon and Pet losses

"Seriously, nul players - - - , like mining are scrub as **** "; You do yourself and your alliance no justice with silly comments like this. (Try reading your overlords forums some time)

The rest of your post simply shows - You don't have much of a grasp on the day to day workings of the CFC.

IMO the only "leet" thing about Goons is that they still somehow manage to keep all their loyal pets running to the whistle.

You did get one thing right, Goons whining has brought about a lot of change (good and bad) in nulsec that affects "everyone".

Lucas; Leave Goon propaganda to Goon Propaganda Team, they manage to make themselves look bad all on their own. They don't need your "help".
I'm sure in your warped anti-CFC mind, everything anyone in the CFC has ever said makes them seem more ignorant to you, so that would seem to be your problem, not mine. Whatever was done to you to make you so incredibly butthurt, I hope it was spectacular.

And in all honesty, I couldn't give a flying **** what you think of what I say. Don't like it? Don't read it.

Pretty close to the response i would expect from a CFC drone.
At least the Goon propaganda team can respond without having to make unfounded personal attacks and incorrect assumptions.
I'm not anti CFC, I am anti all large coalitions. The reason it may seem I am anti CFC to you is, you highlighted CFC involvement - I responded to your post. I can't respond to a post that highlights the CFC by using N3/PL as an example, can I?

Large coalitions create stagnation and lack of content, which we have had more than enough of for the last few years. Not everyone wants to sit in 200 or 1000 man fleets. Some like small fleets and gang warfare - This change to the EULA (for better or worse) removes yet another way the smaller groups can counter the overwhelming numbers fielded by large coalitions.

I'm not pro multicasting pvp fleets by any means. I believe it needs to go as it is not balanced and creates unfair advantage but then a 40,000 member coalition is not balanced either - Should CCP ban people for joining a 1,000 man fleet? It creates an unfair advantage to any small group.

My opinions are mine.

  If you don't like them or disagree with me that's OK.- - - - - - Just don't bother Hating - I don't care

It really is getting harder and harder to justify $23 a month for each sub.
Rain6637
GoonWaffe
Goonswarm Federation
#2542 - 2014-12-14 00:40:41 UTC
Lucas Kell
Solitude Trading
S.N.O.T.
#2543 - 2014-12-14 00:41:26 UTC
Sgt Ocker wrote:
I R HATE GOONZ COS THEY BADDED ME
There there kiddo.

The Indecisive Noob - EVE fan blog.

Wholesale Trading - The new bulk trading mailing list.
Battle Cube
Cube Collective
#2544 - 2014-12-14 04:46:51 UTC  |  Edited by: Battle Cube
So i am currently a multiboxer (i run 10x battleships for incursion HQ sites, and no i dont make that much isk, Usually i only get one pay out, the other 9 characters just helping the fleet get faster payouts, also i was in the NEO II as a single team, lost horribly but was fun)

ive used isboxer to broadcast for targeting and navigation mostly, which means i wont be able to do that anymore....

Not to sound dramatic or anything, but i guess this means i'll be done with eve, because i found single-boxing to be too boring long ago :\


I mean i guess i'll just sell all my stuff and plex one character for a while, but basically... im going to try to find a new MMO :\
ive heard some stuff about star citizen, might have to see how thats coming along
Rain6637
GoonWaffe
Goonswarm Federation
#2545 - 2014-12-14 04:59:17 UTC
Yes, brosef, I recall your NEO performance. Everyone does. I came in here only because I recognized your name.

I'm surprised it took you this long to find a reason to quit EVE.

I've been meaning to ask you, why spend all that ISK on NEO when you KNOW how it's going to turn out, bringing nightmares, when your opponents would also figure out you'd bring nightmares (or other incursion ships)?

Help, I can't download EVE

President of the Commissar Kate Fanclub

PLEX: A Giffen good? (It's 1B?)
Sgt Ocker
What Corp is it
#2546 - 2014-12-14 05:14:32 UTC
Rain6637 wrote:
Yes, brosef, I recall your NEO performance. Everyone does. I came in here only because I recognized your name.

I'm surprised it took you this long to find a reason to quit EVE.

I've been meaning to ask you, why spend all that ISK on NEO when you KNOW how it's going to turn out, bringing nightmares, when your opponents would also figure out you'd bring nightmares (or other incursion ships)?

I believe he answered your question before you asked it
Quote:
lost horribly but was fun)

Much of the "fun" aspect of eve has been eroding over the last few years.
Good on him for doing something he found was "fun"

My opinions are mine.

  If you don't like them or disagree with me that's OK.- - - - - - Just don't bother Hating - I don't care

It really is getting harder and harder to justify $23 a month for each sub.
Rain6637
GoonWaffe
Goonswarm Federation
#2547 - 2014-12-14 05:19:51 UTC
Fair enough. He did it for fun. Also ISBoxes incursions to generate ISK to what end... inflate PLEX prices?

To do it all again next month?

How unaware of oneself do you have to be to state those things, in this thread, as Battle Cube.

So that other question, why it took this long to figure out maybe his EVE experience was not great.

Help, I can't download EVE

President of the Commissar Kate Fanclub

PLEX: A Giffen good? (It's 1B?)
Lucas Kell
Solitude Trading
S.N.O.T.
#2548 - 2014-12-14 10:07:05 UTC
Battle Cube wrote:
So i am currently a multiboxer (i run 10x battleships for incursion HQ sites, and no i dont make that much isk, Usually i only get one pay out, the other 9 characters just helping the fleet get faster payouts, also i was in the NEO II as a single team, lost horribly but was fun)

ive used isboxer to broadcast for targeting and navigation mostly, which means i wont be able to do that anymore....

Not to sound dramatic or anything, but i guess this means i'll be done with eve, because i found single-boxing to be too boring long ago :\


I mean i guess i'll just sell all my stuff and plex one character for a while, but basically... im going to try to find a new MMO :\
ive heard some stuff about star citizen, might have to see how thats coming along
Elite Dangerous is pretty cool. I'd advise getting a decent flight stick though, makes so much difference.

The Indecisive Noob - EVE fan blog.

Wholesale Trading - The new bulk trading mailing list.
Nico Fruehinsfeld
Glorious Astronauts Society
#2549 - 2014-12-14 10:19:15 UTC
Thank you CCP, I'm glad to read that!

I'm using a few client simultaneously and i never used extra software tools to manage them. Not alone because it's unfair against all other players. I did not use such tools like ISBoxer because I like to "play" the game and not to automate it.

Truly I'm a bit sad for players who think they need to use such tools to have fun in the game. But those guys have to understand that the EVE-Universe can't belong only to them!

Guy's, don't be afraid about CCP's income. The PLEX price will decrease and peoples who buy PLEX with real world money will have to buy more of it to get the same amount of ISK. I like that idea!

I'm looking forward to the mineral prices and I'm happy about don't get bomped and ganked from several toons with just one brain behind!


Fly Safe

Nico
Lucas Kell
Solitude Trading
S.N.O.T.
#2550 - 2014-12-14 10:28:54 UTC
Nico Fruehinsfeld wrote:
I did not use such tools like ISBoxer because I like to "play" the game and not to automate it.
ISBoxer is not automation. Fact.

Nico Fruehinsfeld wrote:
Truly I'm a bit sad for players who think they need to use such tools to have fun in the game. But those guys have to understand that the EVE-Universe can't belong only to them!
It's not about need, it's about want. I don't need to drive to work, It's a mission but I could walk, but I prefer driving there. Using a tool to augment your playstyle isn't a bad thing.

Luckily for them, the ISBoxer users can still use ISBoxer. Only one function is being banned.

Nico Fruehinsfeld wrote:
Guy's, don't be afraid about CCP's income. The PLEX price will decrease and peoples who buy PLEX with real world money will have to buy more of it to get the same amount of ISK. I like that idea!

I'm looking forward to the mineral prices and I'm happy about don't get bomped and ganked from several toons with just one brain behind!
PLEX and mineral prices won't change beyond the speculation that is currently causing a dip and a spike. Once January passes and the speculation ends, the prices will return to normal, and PLEX will continue on its journey through 1b/PLEX which it will likely achieve next year.

The Indecisive Noob - EVE fan blog.

Wholesale Trading - The new bulk trading mailing list.
Eli Apol
Definitely a nullsec alt
#2551 - 2014-12-14 10:38:50 UTC
Just quickly ducking my head in again to drop this off:

http://www.themittani.com/features/eves-post-automation-economy

Not exactly the article I'd have written, but pretty clearly sums up the argument I was making - enjoy flooding the comments there as well Lucas ^^

Adieu again fair forum thread o/

but what would I know, I'm just a salvager
Rain6637
GoonWaffe
Goonswarm Federation
#2552 - 2014-12-14 10:51:03 UTC
the guy labeled himself an alliance. hell of a time to leave, when he finally has a decent shot at holding SOV.

Help, I can't download EVE

President of the Commissar Kate Fanclub

PLEX: A Giffen good? (It's 1B?)
Lucas Kell
Solitude Trading
S.N.O.T.
#2553 - 2014-12-14 10:57:25 UTC  |  Edited by: Lucas Kell
Eli Apol wrote:
Just quickly ducking my head in again to drop this off:

http://www.themittani.com/features/eves-post-automation-economy

Not exactly the article I'd have written, but pretty clearly sums up the argument I was making - enjoy flooding the comments there as well Lucas ^^

Adieu again fair forum thread o/
Why would I even need to respond there? I don't even need to click on the link and can already tell you the author has no clue what he's talking about since he's talking about automation, which ISBoxer does not do. I'm sure there's plenty of dumb articles written by clueless idiots you can link here. It won't suddenly make a difference.

Edit: Having read it, yes, that's one of the dumbest posts I've ever read. He even has a screenshot of VideoFX (the thing ISBoxer players will use going forward) while talking about how ISBoxer players will stop.

The Indecisive Noob - EVE fan blog.

Wholesale Trading - The new bulk trading mailing list.
Nico Fruehinsfeld
Glorious Astronauts Society
#2554 - 2014-12-14 11:33:57 UTC
Quote:
ISBoxer is not automation. Fact.


Maybe chaeting is the right expression.

Quote:
It's not about need, it's about want. I don't need to drive to work, It's a mission but I could walk, but I prefer driving there. Using a tool to augment your playstyle isn't a bad thing.


That's a wrong comparison in my eyes. The right would be: You are driving to work with more than one car - what makes no sense.

My reason to use more than one toon simulaneously is to do thinks which I could not do if I would have just one toon. I bet that's also the reason for ISBoxer (or similar tools) users.
I've limited myself to 4 simultaneously opened clients per screen, becaus that's the count i can control proper without any additional tools.

I know that makes me slower than guys who have to control less toons than me and that is fair and everyones free decision.

Broadcasting commands to several clients isn't fair in my opinion, because you're overpowered compared to other non-broadcasting players - e.g. broadcasting a bomber or a ganker fleet.
Using e.g. 10 broadcasted bombers, gankers or miners is like you have one ship with 10 times of the ability of a single ship.
Thats effectively equal to a god mode and cheating in my eyes.

If you don't broadcast commands to your 10 ships you even would have 10 times of effect, but you would be ~10 times slower than a single toon, what makes it fair.

Quote:
PLEX and mineral prices won't change beyond the speculation that is currently causing a dip and a spike. Once January passes and the speculation ends, the prices will return to normal, and PLEX will continue on its journey through 1b/PLEX which it will likely achieve next year.


No hard feelings, but i hope you're way off! Blink


Cheers
Nico
Delt0r Garsk
Shits N Giggles
#2555 - 2014-12-14 11:52:02 UTC
Quote:
I've limited myself to 4 simultaneously opened clients per screen, becaus that's the count i can control proper without any additional tools.

There are many people in this thread that think your cheating. Of course that is mostly cus they are jealous.
I have 3 monitors at home and 6 at work :D. I can set linux up to allow me to play many clients pretty easily without any extra tool other than a decent operating system. So how many is too many?

Quite frankly why everyone gets soo upset about this is a mystery. Who cares if its one person or many people? Really what difference does it make? the 1 second it takes a fleet to fire at a FC command is no different than using isboxer.

The game itself is designed around multiple accounts per person. Super capitols just wouldn't work at all without them, and capitols would suck.

If someone wants to have 20 accounts, power to him/her. If someone else wants only 1 account, cool whatever. But if you going to do the "everyone should have the same as me" crap then please just play a different game. Even if isboxer was banned you would complain about multiboxing, if that got banned you would complain about big fleets crushing you, if that was banned you would complain about bittervets having an unfair skill point advantage......

AKA the scientist.

Death and Glory!

Well fun is also good.
Lucas Kell
Solitude Trading
S.N.O.T.
#2556 - 2014-12-14 12:19:29 UTC
Nico Fruehinsfeld wrote:
Maybe chaeting is the right expression.
It's not chaeting. It's not even cheating. It's allowed. Even after this change, ISBoxer will still be allowed. It's an efficiency tool, nothing more. Much like how traders use spreadhseet and other tools to make trading more efficient, ISBoxing makes simple repetitive tasks more efficient.

Nico Fruehinsfeld wrote:
That's a wrong comparison in my eyes. The right would be: You are driving to work with more than one car - what makes no sense.

My reason to use more than one toon simulaneously is to do thinks which I could not do if I would have just one toon. I bet that's also the reason for ISBoxer (or similar tools) users.
It's right in the sense that you can control 20 characters manually if you want to, it's just a lot of effort. ISBoxer allows you to reduce that effort. It doesn't do anything for you, it simply augments your ability.

Nico Fruehinsfeld wrote:
Broadcasting commands to several clients isn't fair in my opinion, because you're overpowered compared to other non-broadcasting players - e.g. broadcasting a bomber or a ganker fleet.
Using e.g. 10 broadcasted bombers, gankers or miners is like you have one ship with 10 times of the ability of a single ship.
Thats effectively equal to a god mode and cheating in my eyes.

If you don't broadcast commands to your 10 ships you even would have 10 times of effect, but you would be ~10 times slower than a single toon, what makes it fair.
But then why is it any more unfair that a guy with 9 friends who all come and gank you? It's not. If you didn't know that a multiboxer was a multiboxer, then it wouldn't upset you. On a per-character level, they aren't any better than a manual player, so your whole problem is what, that there's only 1 player behind the screen? That seems incredibly irrational to me.

Nico Fruehinsfeld wrote:
No hard feelings, but i hope you're way off! Blink
I very much doubt I will be. PLEX price hasn't been long term reduced by anything else, so I doubt removing one feature of a multibox program will be more than a momentary blip. I'm absolutely positive we'll see 1b/PLEX next year, that is without a doubt.

The Indecisive Noob - EVE fan blog.

Wholesale Trading - The new bulk trading mailing list.
Nico Fruehinsfeld
Glorious Astronauts Society
#2557 - 2014-12-14 12:42:52 UTC
Quote:
There are many people in this thread that think your cheating. Of course that is mostly cus they are jealous.


I agree.

Quote:
I have 3 monitors at home and 6 at work :D. I can set linux up to allow me to play many clients pretty easily without any extra tool other than a decent operating system. So how many is too many?


The more clients you are using the slower you are in therms of controling them. So there is no quastion about fairness in this point in my opinion.

Quote:
Quite frankly why everyone gets soo upset about this is a mystery. Who cares if its one person or many people? Really what difference does it make? the 1 second it takes a fleet to fire at a FC command is no different than using isboxer.


Imagine a gankfleet broadcasted from one person blows you up in an expansive ship. That would not happened if broadcasters would get banned.

I got ganked from CODE and some Goons while i was in an Obelisk. They did a really good job. It was made brilliant and from a huge count of players. I would get really pissed off if I would get ganked from one player with broadcasted ships. One player with non-broadcasted ships would have a hard job to kill me because of his control delay.

Quote:
The game itself is designed around multiple accounts per person. Super capitols just wouldn't work at all without them, and capitols would suck.


I bet you'll find a different way beside broadcasting them, to control your ships the fair way.

Quote:
If someone wants to have 20 accounts, power to him/her. If someone else wants only 1 account, cool whatever. But if you going to do the "everyone should have the same as me" crap then please just play a different game. Even if isboxer was banned you would complain about multiboxing, if that got banned you would complain about big fleets crushing you, if that was banned you would complain about bittervets having an unfair skill point advantage.....


That's why finding proper rules is so hard. You cant provide to get 100% of us happy.


What I dont like about CCP's decision is the hard break at 01.01.2015. I know guys who have 20 toons and more, which are well plexed for the next few month. All the PLEX are spent for nuts, because no one can/won't control so many toons without additional tools like ISBoxer.
It would be very fair if CCP would let those players the chance to play the already plexed playtime like usual with ISBoxer or which tool ever. Or they return the PLEX in a special initiative to players who otherwise feel cheated due to that change.



Cheers
Nico
Lucas Kell
Solitude Trading
S.N.O.T.
#2558 - 2014-12-14 12:47:31 UTC
Nico Fruehinsfeld wrote:
I got ganked from CODE and some Goons while i was in an Obelisk. They did a really good job. It was made brilliant and from a huge count of players. I would get really pissed off if I would get ganked from one player with broadcasted ships. One player with non-broadcasted ships would have a hard job to kill me because of his control delay.
Why does it matter how many players did it? If you didn't know how many players did it, you wouldn't care, so the fact that you do is a purely emotional response.

The Indecisive Noob - EVE fan blog.

Wholesale Trading - The new bulk trading mailing list.
Rain6637
GoonWaffe
Goonswarm Federation
#2559 - 2014-12-14 12:50:36 UTC
he's right though. freighter ganks are getting hit so hard that he can start running expanded cargoholds.

Help, I can't download EVE

President of the Commissar Kate Fanclub

PLEX: A Giffen good? (It's 1B?)
Nico Fruehinsfeld
Glorious Astronauts Society
#2560 - 2014-12-14 13:08:37 UTC
Lucas Kell wrote:
Nico Fruehinsfeld wrote:
I got ganked from CODE and some Goons while i was in an Obelisk. They did a really good job. It was made brilliant and from a huge count of players. I would get really pissed off if I would get ganked from one player with broadcasted ships. One player with non-broadcasted ships would have a hard job to kill me because of his control delay.
Why does it matter how many players did it? If you didn't know how many players did it, you wouldn't care, so the fact that you do is a purely emotional response.



Sure, there is a difference! A fleet of many players is a cool thing and a huge part of the spirit of EVE in my eyes. Every fleet member can make a mistake or can do something more than right to let an operation succeed or not. That isn't the fact if one player controls everything in that fleet broadcasted.
It's just the multiplication of effect without any penalty. That's unfair!


I could join CODE or the Goons to revenge the spy way or I could join them because I like their work.
But broatcasting players are mostly in a seperated world where other players can't join their actions. Other players are just disturbing in their eyes. But on the other side they are making lots of ISK with non-broadcasters.
It's pure destructive play-behavior in a MMO like EVE! They have a huge impact on the game in therms of item prices, eradicated sites, belts and so on, but they dont play with us but alone or against us with terrific power.


Cheers
Nico