EVE General Discussion

Who knows. Maybe those multiboxers will sell their characters and the overall number of active account will not decrease, but the extra 2 PLEX per character will spike demand. Either way it's irrelevant. PLEX price will go up, and then you'll be sitting there going "but, but but... the demand should have gone down!". Repeatedly smashing your head against the same brick wall with the same dumb comment written on it won't make it less dumb. Multiboxers do not negatively affect the economy any more than other use of PLEX does.

I understand that you don't get it, but that's the fact. Continue to kick and scream about the economy all you want, you'll still be paying over a billion a PLEX next year, guaranteed.

Edit: by the way, in both those cases the biggest flaw you have is that you assume that those values are fixed rather than fluid. Remember earlier when I said that the economy was more complex than rudimentary supply vs demand?

You have an effect on the economy. Everyone has an effect on the economy. What you were stating though is that ISBoxers have a significant detrimental effect on the economy and thus should be removed because you think it will make your PLEX cheaper, which it won't because they don't. Don't try to wiggle yourself out of the hole you dug when you suddenly realise you have no facts to back up your claim.

And no, it's doesn't have a non-trivial effect. As is clearly evidenced by the economy statistics available to you. We've already clearly covered why you are saying it anyway. You think PLEX prices will drop enabling you to buy cheaper PLEX if ISBoxer users aren't there. That won't happen.

And you've yet to hear a reason you believe to be credible. That doesn't mean the reasons people have suggested aren't credible, it simply means you don't like them. I'd certainly suggest that "but the economy!" isn't a credible reason given the lack of evidence to suggest that ISBoxer miners have any effect on the economy over and above other players.

- Following complaints from envious players that it's "unfair"
- Simply because a dev put it forward as an idea and it got accepted (you'd be surprised how many times in development environments this occurs)

To be honest though, you know exactly why I think it's happened. People were suddenly aware of bomber fleets. It's not new, but it's been in the blogs a lot more - probably because it happened to the CFC. Following that it was raised by CSMs, discussed by CCP and a decisions was made to nerf bombers in an attempt to fix it. CCP put forward a change, announced it, and bomber pilots started shrieking their complaints. So CCP pulled the cloak mechanic change and instead figured that removing broadcasting would resolve the issue (which it won't). Realistically they were right in the first place. The problem is with the gameplay mechanics, and that's where it should be fixed. It has nothing to do with the economy.

Making a bad change for all the right reasons is still a bad change. These same people who would have CCP remove broadcasting would also have CCP remove any non-consensual PVP in highsec, and remove scams.

EVE has a reputation for breaking the norm of MMOs. It allows scams (and some argue it encourages them with the way the market's set up. I personally do not know enough about the market or the relevant skills to form an opinion on whether EVE truly encourages scams or if it is more 'absent minded' regarding such things), allows non-consensual PVP in supposedly "safe" systems (not counting rookie systems), allows ganks, has wardecs that allow PVP in high-sec areas, and has a greater focus on player skill than in-game skills or items than other games that I've looked at.

EVE is (was) one of the last places that allowed unrestricted multiboxing. WoW restricts it to non-PVP usage, LOTRO recently banned it (if I remember correctly), DDO has no follow or assist command and the targeting system there is poor. Now that EVE has all but banned ISBoxer and similar software, many are now wondering why they're bothering to pay or sub their accounts for EVE when games like Elite: Dangerous and Star Citizen are coming out soon.

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I am allowed to voice my opinion without resorting to such drastic measures. I was merely bringing something to light that may not have been visible for the "grr boxers" crowd.

If you wish to suppress people's voice and opinion and leave only one voice as "the truth" then I suggest taking a look at any history book written in the past 50 years.

Eli and Tyr are still here. As well as the others who pop in just to say "grr boxers" and then disappear.

While I did suggest (and have been told by other boxers) that some will leave for other games, you told me to unsub simply for continuing a discussion and I quoted your exact phrasing in my previous response. If you wish to delete or edit what you said as some form of retroactive "no I didn't, you're changing my arguments", go right ahead. Such narrow-mindedness will get you nowhere IRL, not to mention EVE.

Also, consider our side of the picture for a moment. We've been minding our own business mostly for the past however-long ISBoxing has been a thing, not attempting to change gameplay for those who do not adhere to a very narrow interpretation of the EULA. We've mostly stuck to the shadows, with a few notable exceptions such as TheWiz, Replicator, Ammzi, Oodell, and bikkus. We've been targeted since the beginning by gankers and by wardeccers the likes of Marmite because of a strange version of xenophobia or panphobia, although in this case it isn't fear of other people or "everything" but fear of something they do not understand; much like how a two month old pilot would react upon seeing Chribba's Veldnaught in Jita. We're the constant target of threads in GD that generally go "I saw a bot, why isn't he banned?" or "Ban ISBoxer because he shouldn't have multiple accounts". Generally, these rare souls are laughed at until the local ISD locks it and reaffirms that ISBoxer and multiboxing did not break the EULA so long as there was still a person behind the seat. Fast foward a bit, and we start hearing nasty rumors from Replicator and the smaller, less visible gank-boxers about downed ships getting reimbursed, and ISD suddenly stepping up and locking any attempts to discuss these threads on GD. Any and all attempts to get an official statement from CCP were met with "gtfo", "nothing's changed" (despite evidence to the contrary), or "it's part of an active discussion regarding ISBoxers and no, we won't ask for advice or opinions from any ISBoxers". Many took this as an attack on ISBoxer, including myself. Now fast forward to the OP, and we, just like some of the wormhole corps and alliances, are wondering why we're supposed to say "Moar please" when someone's hitting us with the stick while tossing the carrot in the trash.

Players can endure only so much before they cut their losses and run.

If I were you, I wouldn't make it a long sub. If other people multiboxing is what kept you away, you'll be very disappointed when you realise they will still be multiboxing in January.

For the benefit of the audience, would you please show us all on the chart where the bad little ISBoxers touched you? Whatever they did to you must have been bad if that's been a serious factor in keeping you away from EvE all these years.

Its ok, your safe now.

Strawman is strawman

Feel free to manipulate all you like, just don't manipulate prices across every hub at the same time using multiplexing across clients - at least you have to independently change your 0.01 isk prices to compete in every market.