These forums have been archived and are now read-only.

The new forums are live and can be found at https://forums.eveonline.com/

CSM Campaigns

 
  • Topic is locked indefinitely.
 

Conflict. Opportunity. Destruction. Excitement.... Sabriz for CSM10

First post First post
Author
Sasha Nyemtsov
Doomheim
#321 - 2015-02-10 05:52:14 UTC
Vic Jefferson wrote:
Haedonism Bot wrote:

Nevertheless, nothing of value was lost. The AT is not "a big part of EVE", it is a sideshow - an event of interest only to a minority of EVE players. My personal opinion is that the AT is exactly the sort of instanced, consensual, consequence-free PvP that has no place in EVE Online. Frankly it is the sort of thing that the New Order is supposed to be opposing on principle.


Sure something of value was lost, something which, unlike mining barges, cannot be simply purchased back. I seem to recall Cannibal Kane actually posting that he was at least miffed that CODE hadn't taken the tournament seriously, as he one day hoped to participate - If you can't take his opinion as an authority on Hi Sec content creation as worthwhile, I think you are a little daft. You lost credibility. You lost face. Good luck trying to get those back.

I could just as easily disparage ganking as something that only appeals to, as well as only being relevant to, a minority of EVE players. I won't though, because I'm not so pompous and full of my own self congratulatory drivel that I have to vomit it up all over the place. I would recommend actually participating in the tournament before you make a judgement, but that's sort of impossible now, isn't it?


Look Vic, Sabriz has stated quite clearly and (one would have hoped) finally his views on the events surrounding AT.

While not wishing to discourage meaningful debate on any issue relevant to his candidature, my feeling is that he has now sought to draw a line under this particular incident.

No doubt he'll correct me if I'm wrong.
Vic Jefferson
Stimulus
Rote Kapelle
#322 - 2015-02-10 06:03:31 UTC
Sasha Nyemtsov wrote:
Vic Jefferson wrote:
Haedonism Bot wrote:

Nevertheless, nothing of value was lost. The AT is not "a big part of EVE", it is a sideshow - an event of interest only to a minority of EVE players. My personal opinion is that the AT is exactly the sort of instanced, consensual, consequence-free PvP that has no place in EVE Online. Frankly it is the sort of thing that the New Order is supposed to be opposing on principle.


Sure something of value was lost, something which, unlike mining barges, cannot be simply purchased back. I seem to recall Cannibal Kane actually posting that he was at least miffed that CODE hadn't taken the tournament seriously, as he one day hoped to participate - If you can't take his opinion as an authority on Hi Sec content creation as worthwhile, I think you are a little daft. You lost credibility. You lost face. Good luck trying to get those back.

I could just as easily disparage ganking as something that only appeals to, as well as only being relevant to, a minority of EVE players. I won't though, because I'm not so pompous and full of my own self congratulatory drivel that I have to vomit it up all over the place. I would recommend actually participating in the tournament before you make a judgement, but that's sort of impossible now, isn't it?


Look Vic, Sabriz has stated quite clearly and (one would have hoped) finally his views on the events surrounding AT.

While not wishing to discourage meaningful debate on any issue relevant to his candidature, my feeling is that he has now sought to draw a line under this particular incident.

No doubt he'll correct me if I'm wrong.


I'm actually happy Sabriz responded to my posts. That post is entirely quoting and responding to Haedonism Bot.

Vote Vic Jefferson for CSM X.....XI.....XII?

Sabriz Adoudel
Move along there is nothing here
#323 - 2015-02-10 09:50:56 UTC
Application formally submitted with all required supporting documentation (passport scan, etc).

I support the New Order and CODE. alliance. www.minerbumping.com

Tengu Grib
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#324 - 2015-02-10 16:56:39 UTC
Sabriz Adoudel wrote:
Updated the third post with a recommended voting order. This is subject to change if other exceptional candidates are brought to my attention; or, for that matter, if other fair or good candidates want to make a cross-endorsement deal.


Thanks Sabriz! Now I can be really lazy!

Rabble Rabble Rabble

Praise James, Supreme Protector of High Sec.

Orange Something
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#325 - 2015-02-10 18:26:06 UTC
You have a lot of good points and suggestions for how CCP should go forward with the hisec changes, and out of all the candidates flying under the "we want a better hisec" banner, I feel your proposals stick to the spirit of what Eve is about.

I do have a couple questions, and forgive me if you've been asked them earlier, but I just want to know your opinions on two things hisec related in particular.

So the first thing I'd like to hear was what your stance on ganking is in it's current state. I'm sure you have some form of opinion on this since you're in the most (in)famous ganking alliance. Imo, ganking is a very legitimate play style, but is somewhat risk adverse, as you go in fully aware that you're going to be losing the ship you're flying, and as a result there is little to no risk to the ganker. I was wondering if you have a plan to add risk to ganking or if you disagree and feel ganking is in a good place as is.

Secondly, I feel as though non-FW lowsec is, for the most part, pretty dead compared to hisec. Part of the problem I feel stems from the fact that there is little reason for hisec bears to move into low when the risk outweighs the reward, for example, how miners can make equal amounts of money mining in a 0.8 system as they could mining in a 0.3 system. I was wondering if you have an opinion to the lack of reward vs risk that non-combat oriented playstyles have in lowsec, and if so, how you would change it if you could.
Tengu Grib
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#326 - 2015-02-10 18:39:05 UTC
Orange Something wrote:
You have a lot of good points and suggestions for how CCP should go forward with the hisec changes, and out of all the candidates flying under the "we want a better hisec" banner, I feel your proposals stick to the spirit of what Eve is about.

I do have a couple questions, and forgive me if you've been asked them earlier, but I just want to know your opinions on two things hisec related in particular.

So the first thing I'd like to hear was what your stance on ganking is in it's current state. I'm sure you have some form of opinion on this since you're in the most (in)famous ganking alliance. Imo, ganking is a very legitimate play style, but is somewhat risk adverse, as you go in fully aware that you're going to be losing the ship you're flying, and as a result there is little to no risk to the ganker. I was wondering if you have a plan to add risk to ganking or if you disagree and feel ganking is in a good place as is.

Secondly, I feel as though non-FW lowsec is, for the most part, pretty dead compared to hisec. Part of the problem I feel stems from the fact that there is little reason for hisec bears to move into low when the risk outweighs the reward, for example, how miners can make equal amounts of money mining in a 0.8 system as they could mining in a 0.3 system. I was wondering if you have an opinion to the lack of reward vs risk that non-combat oriented playstyles have in lowsec, and if so, how you would change it if you could.


The ganking stuff has already been discussed, short version: Ganking needs more activity from White Knights to make it more interesting for both parties. This thread does contain a few discussions of ideas to work in that direction.

Interested to hear what Sabriz has to say about low sec though.

Rabble Rabble Rabble

Praise James, Supreme Protector of High Sec.

Sasha Nyemtsov
Doomheim
#327 - 2015-02-10 21:03:50 UTC
Vic Jefferson wrote:
Sasha Nyemtsov wrote:
Vic Jefferson wrote:
Haedonism Bot wrote:

Nevertheless, nothing of value was lost. The AT is not "a big part of EVE", it is a sideshow - an event of interest only to a minority of EVE players. My personal opinion is that the AT is exactly the sort of instanced, consensual, consequence-free PvP that has no place in EVE Online. Frankly it is the sort of thing that the New Order is supposed to be opposing on principle.


Sure something of value was lost, something which, unlike mining barges, cannot be simply purchased back. I seem to recall Cannibal Kane actually posting that he was at least miffed that CODE hadn't taken the tournament seriously, as he one day hoped to participate - If you can't take his opinion as an authority on Hi Sec content creation as worthwhile, I think you are a little daft. You lost credibility. You lost face. Good luck trying to get those back.

I could just as easily disparage ganking as something that only appeals to, as well as only being relevant to, a minority of EVE players. I won't though, because I'm not so pompous and full of my own self congratulatory drivel that I have to vomit it up all over the place. I would recommend actually participating in the tournament before you make a judgement, but that's sort of impossible now, isn't it?


Look Vic, Sabriz has stated quite clearly and (one would have hoped) finally his views on the events surrounding AT.

While not wishing to discourage meaningful debate on any issue relevant to his candidature, my feeling is that he has now sought to draw a line under this particular incident.

No doubt he'll correct me if I'm wrong.


I'm actually happy Sabriz responded to my posts. That post is entirely quoting and responding to Haedonism Bot.


Hi Vic, I get that. Thx!
Sabriz Adoudel
Move along there is nothing here
#328 - 2015-02-10 22:34:29 UTC
Orange Something wrote:
You have a lot of good points and suggestions for how CCP should go forward with the hisec changes, and out of all the candidates flying under the "we want a better hisec" banner, I feel your proposals stick to the spirit of what Eve is about.

I do have a couple questions, and forgive me if you've been asked them earlier, but I just want to know your opinions on two things hisec related in particular.

So the first thing I'd like to hear was what your stance on ganking is in it's current state. I'm sure you have some form of opinion on this since you're in the most (in)famous ganking alliance. Imo, ganking is a very legitimate play style, but is somewhat risk adverse, as you go in fully aware that you're going to be losing the ship you're flying, and as a result there is little to no risk to the ganker. I was wondering if you have a plan to add risk to ganking or if you disagree and feel ganking is in a good place as is.

Secondly, I feel as though non-FW lowsec is, for the most part, pretty dead compared to hisec. Part of the problem I feel stems from the fact that there is little reason for hisec bears to move into low when the risk outweighs the reward, for example, how miners can make equal amounts of money mining in a 0.8 system as they could mining in a 0.3 system. I was wondering if you have an opinion to the lack of reward vs risk that non-combat oriented playstyles have in lowsec, and if so, how you would change it if you could.



Ganking (both of freighters and of miners) isn't totally risk averse. I've lost an Ishtar and a Hyperion to killrights related to ganking (although I'm somewhat of an exception to the norm as I gank on my main and do not run -10; in fact Sabriz has always been 0.8 legal and almost always 1.0 legal).

Ganks can be disrupted which normally results in a ganker losing a ship for no gain. It's just that while anti-gankers can effectively defend an individual specific freighter (particularly if the freighter pilot trusts the anti-gankers), they can't protect *everyone*. Where anti-gankers can be effective is teaching the pilots of noncombat ships basic opsec - something CODE's most vocal rivals at the moment refuse to do. I post a lot of courier contracts as a trader, and see a few repeat names that accept them often - these people never lose ships despite often carrying highly gankworthy cargoes (such as a recent contract where I had someone move 2.4b worth of T2 ships, or another where someone moved 3.5b worth of tech 2 components).

Currently there's two main factors that disrupt -10 operations in highsec - faction police, and players being allowed to shoot you. I'd endorse changes that keep the sum of these factors about the same, but increase the power of players to disrupt ganks.

But most of all, the mechanics of mining encourage players to spread out and (outside deep null where belt rats are more of a factor) strongly discourage players from bringing any sort of combat escort to mining operations. I would strongly endorse changes to mining mechanics that made bringing combat escorts more worthwhile. Sites with both lucrative ore AND rats would be an interesting starting point, and I'd endorse a 'claim' system on these sites akin to what Steve Ronuken has proposed in the past (where one corporation can claim a site via some method, possibly driving off rats, and mining that site then becomes a suspect level offence for other people). Balance would be key, however - as any change to mining throughput could increase supercapital proliferation.



As for risk versus reward in non-FW lowsec.

First mining - lowsec is arguably the most dangerous place to mine, and has terrible rewards. As for suggestions, one thing I have proposed before is changing the 105%/110% density ores to be higher (perhaps 140%/200%), putting very few of them in highsec, and more in dangerous space. Mining in Tama probably wouldn't ever become worthwhile, but mining in quiet low might be worth considering if you can get a moderate amount of 200% quality ore and a good deal of 140%. Same caveat about supercapital proliferation applies here, of course.

Secondly missions. It's not just that risk/reward calculations favor highsec over lowsec, it's that the reward for efficient highsec mission blitzing (level 4s in semi-blinged Marauders) are higher than the reward for efficient lowsec mission running (level 4s in tech 2 fitted HACs or cloak-capable T3s) even before you consider risk. Level 5s have different issues payout wise as their payout is almost entirely in low to medium demand LPs and the small number of people blitzing them hyperefficiently can crash those markets.

Third and related, incursions. Even the addition of a BPC worth tens of billions to the drops, and 50% higher payout, doesn't make lowsec incursions *close* to as lucrative as highsec ones where you can just use blingfits and do the sites much faster. Constellation control amplifies this - lowsec incursions generally have a higher degree of Sansha control when sites are attempted.

One suggestion I have is rebalancing mission payouts and incursions so that higher level highsec missions pay primarily in LP, but sites in more dangerous space pay both ISK and LP. This way, the more people that run missions or incursions in highsec the lower the payout becomes, and it's a noticeable dropoff.

Another suggestion is expanding on the theme of burner missions, changing them so that a PVP fit is required (i.e. the mission target tries to warp off, this change would require rebalancing of the rat stats), making them involve a few more jumps, and making them more prevalent and more lucrative in lowsec. More people traversing gates in PVP fitted ships would revatilize low somewhat.

I support the New Order and CODE. alliance. www.minerbumping.com

La Rynx
School of Applied Knowledge
Caldari State
#329 - 2015-02-11 18:25:34 UTC
Sabriz Adoudel wrote:

Exactly. So why not elect a CSM member who represents the highsec content creation play-style?

Easy because there are many many more qualified than him.

Black Pedro wrote:

Sabriz has ...


Commercial bla snipped.
Commercials do not change the fact, that he is not qualified.
Bear

Sabriz Adoudel wrote:

Ganking (both of freighters and of miners) isn't totally risk averse

Noooo, it is just not risk averse enough!!

Bear
At least you admit that it *is* risk-averse. Not complety but --> mostly.
So only a complete Numbnut has risks!

(do codies ever realise what stuff they write?)Pirate

Atomic Virulent : "You can't spell DOUCHE. without CODE."

Kaarous Aldurald
Black Hydra Consortium.
#330 - 2015-02-11 22:58:40 UTC
La Rynx wrote:

Easy because there are many many more qualified than him.


I don't see any. In fact I see a pretty poor crop of candidates overall, to the point where I expect at least 4 incumbents to be retained, probably more like 5 or 6 or even higher.

Sabriz stands out rather well.

"Verily, I have often laughed at the weaklings who thought themselves good because they had no claws."

One of ours, ten of theirs.

Best Meltdown Ever.

Malcanis
Vanishing Point.
The Initiative.
#331 - 2015-02-11 23:04:36 UTC
Kaarous Aldurald wrote:
La Rynx wrote:

Easy because there are many many more qualified than him.


I don't see any. In fact I see a pretty poor crop of candidates overall, to the point where I expect at least 4 incumbents to be retained, probably more like 5 or 6 or even higher.

Sabriz stands out rather well.


Most or all of the incumbents seeking re-election for CSM X are easily worth voting for.

"Just remember later that I warned against any change to jump ranges or fatigue. You earned whats coming."

Grath Telkin, 11.10.2016

Tengu Grib
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#332 - 2015-02-12 00:28:35 UTC
Malcanis wrote:
Kaarous Aldurald wrote:
La Rynx wrote:

Easy because there are many many more qualified than him.


I don't see any. In fact I see a pretty poor crop of candidates overall, to the point where I expect at least 4 incumbents to be retained, probably more like 5 or 6 or even higher.

Sabriz stands out rather well.


Most or all of the incumbents seeking re-election for CSM X are easily worth voting for.


None of them are High Sec content creators though.

Rabble Rabble Rabble

Praise James, Supreme Protector of High Sec.

Lucas Kell
Solitude Trading
#333 - 2015-02-12 08:51:37 UTC
Tengu Grib wrote:
Malcanis wrote:
Kaarous Aldurald wrote:
La Rynx wrote:

Easy because there are many many more qualified than him.


I don't see any. In fact I see a pretty poor crop of candidates overall, to the point where I expect at least 4 incumbents to be retained, probably more like 5 or 6 or even higher.

Sabriz stands out rather well.


Most or all of the incumbents seeking re-election for CSM X are easily worth voting for.


None of them are High Sec content creators though.
That depends on what your definition of content creator is. Sabriz seems to have a blinkered view, as if any change which doesn't promote CODEs ability to shoot newbies is automatically not content creation, as if shooting a bunch of mining barges piloted by players who generally have no clue what they are doing is actually worthwhile content to support.

The Indecisive Noob - EVE fan blog.

Wholesale Trading - The new bulk trading mailing list.

Haedonism Bot
Revolutionary Front
#334 - 2015-02-12 13:43:38 UTC
Malcanis wrote:
Kaarous Aldurald wrote:
La Rynx wrote:

Easy because there are many many more qualified than him.


I don't see any. In fact I see a pretty poor crop of candidates overall, to the point where I expect at least 4 incumbents to be retained, probably more like 5 or 6 or even higher.

Sabriz stands out rather well.


Most or all of the incumbents seeking re-election for CSM X are easily worth voting for.


Their track record of advocating for nerfs to our playstyle, and of general uselessness speaks for itself. I realize that CSM is a sort of club and that most current and former members like to stick up for each other. To the rest of us, though, if we are paying attention and being honest, CSM9 looks to have done as poor a job as CSM8 did.

The field doesn't look much better for CSM10 either. Sabriz and Tora both stand out in that they both represent an important and historically underrepresented playstyle.

It is true that there are others out there who are better qualified to represent highsec content creators than Sabriz is. Unfortunately, none of them is running this year. And Sabriz is more qualified than you may think. If you judge him purely on his killboard (which certainly isn't bad) you may scoff and say, "Bah he's no Cannibal Kane, no Arden Elenduil, no Jerry Rin (Jerry Rin for CSM! and unban him too please...), but the fact remains that Sabriz is smarter and more fair minded than all of us put together.

And unlike most highsec content creators, he actually takes the CSM seriously. If you elected me to CSM, I'd show up at the summit just for the free food (is there free food?) and just troll the whole process from start to finish.

www.everevolutionaryfront.blogspot.com

Vote Sabriz Adoudel and Tora Bushido for CSMX. Keep the Evil in EVE!

Tengu Grib
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#335 - 2015-02-12 19:37:29 UTC
Lucas Kell wrote:
Tengu Grib wrote:
Malcanis wrote:
Kaarous Aldurald wrote:
La Rynx wrote:

Easy because there are many many more qualified than him.


I don't see any. In fact I see a pretty poor crop of candidates overall, to the point where I expect at least 4 incumbents to be retained, probably more like 5 or 6 or even higher.

Sabriz stands out rather well.


Most or all of the incumbents seeking re-election for CSM X are easily worth voting for.


None of them are High Sec content creators though.
That depends on what your definition of content creator is. Sabriz seems to have a blinkered view, as if any change which doesn't promote CODEs ability to shoot newbies is automatically not content creation, as if shooting a bunch of mining barges piloted by players who generally have no clue what they are doing is actually worthwhile content to support.


Your statement shows that you do not know Sabriz, what he stands for, or what he has been saying. Considering how much you've been posting in this thread I find that surprising.

Rabble Rabble Rabble

Praise James, Supreme Protector of High Sec.

Tengu Grib
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#336 - 2015-02-12 19:48:25 UTC
Haedonism Bot wrote:
Sabriz and Tora both stand out in that they both represent an important and historically underrepresented playstyle.


To me this is the key and why Sabriz, Tora, or ideally both should be ellected. They represent a play style that currently has ZERO advocates as CSM candidates. Funky Bacon filled this role on CSM 9 and I was happy with what I saw from him, even though it wasn't his primary field of focus. If neither of these guys get elected, than every CSM member will represent either nullsec, wormhole space, or carebears. Having at least one of these two candidates will give a voice to a play style that currently has NO representation on the CSM. And no, Sabriz is not running as a Code candidate (though he is in Code) he's running as a content creation candidate.

Vote Sabriz!

Rabble Rabble Rabble

Praise James, Supreme Protector of High Sec.

Feyd Rautha Harkonnen
Doomheim
#337 - 2015-02-12 20:18:29 UTC
Tengu Grib wrote:
Haedonism Bot wrote:
Sabriz and Tora both stand out in that they both represent an important and historically underrepresented playstyle.


To me this is the key and why Sabriz, Tora, or ideally both should be ellected. They represent a play style that currently has ZERO advocates as CSM candidates. Funky Bacon filled this role on CSM 9 and I was happy with what I saw from him, even though it wasn't his primary field of focus. If neither of these guys get elected, than every CSM member will represent either nullsec, wormhole space, or carebears. Having at least one of these two candidates will give a voice to a play style that currently has NO representation on the CSM. And no, Sabriz is not running as a Code candidate (though he is in Code) he's running as a content creation candidate.

Vote Sabriz!

Quoted for truth, these are the men these times call for.

F
Sabriz Adoudel
Move along there is nothing here
#338 - 2015-02-13 05:45:09 UTC
Tengu Grib wrote:
And no, Sabriz is not running as a Code candidate (though he is in Code) he's running as a content creation candidate.

Vote Sabriz!


This is worth reiterating.

I want to see more conflict in highsec. Not all of that will be driven by my alliance, and some of it may well be conflicts we end up defeated in.

One of these proposals is for defender entities in wardecs to be able to collect some or all of the wardec fee by inflicting damage upon the aggressor entity. CODE. often initiates wardecs and seldom is the defender in one, so this would materially assist our rivals. I am still for it because it would increase conflict in highsec.

I support the New Order and CODE. alliance. www.minerbumping.com

Bellak Hark
New Eden Media Organization
#339 - 2015-02-15 16:48:46 UTC
Here you go, CSMX ad completed.
Sabriz Adoudel
Move along there is nothing here
#340 - 2015-02-17 09:39:44 UTC
Don't forget to vote.

http://www.superbwallpapers.com/animals/kitten-16219/

This kitten wants you to vote.

I support the New Order and CODE. alliance. www.minerbumping.com