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Conflict. Opportunity. Destruction. Excitement.... Sabriz for CSM10

First post First post
Author
Vic Jefferson
Stimulus
Rote Kapelle
#301 - 2015-02-03 08:08:08 UTC
Sabriz Adoudel wrote:
The AT doesn't shape EVE in any way, so I didn't mind us not taking it seriously (although I wasn't involved in the decision).


This sort of displays a lack of understanding of the organic nature of the sandbox, which is surprising considering some of your other statements. There's plenty of ways the AT effects New Eden...

A)Fits and comps used in the tournament can trickle into usage.

B)The market surely is at least somewhat impacted by so many teams scrambling to pay the entry fee.

C)AT ships weave their lossmails into the rich, storied canvas of New Eden.

D)Alliance structures may shift in response to be qualified, which in turn may result in meeting and interacting with people you wouldn't have normally, which obviously can have a big impact on the way you play the game.

E)Teams that do well generally have much more street cred than teams that run away like scared children, which impacts all sorts of things; is this fit good, is this a gang I should run away from? Again, I would at least think twice about engaging a Camel Empire pilot, but a CODE. pilot?

The butterfly effect does not just stop because you want to partition the AT from New Eden.

Vote Vic Jefferson for CSM X.....XI.....XII?

Sabriz Adoudel
Move along there is nothing here
#302 - 2015-02-03 08:10:57 UTC
Vic Jefferson wrote:
Sabriz Adoudel wrote:
The AT doesn't shape EVE in any way, so I didn't mind us not taking it seriously (although I wasn't involved in the decision).


This sort of displays a lack of understanding of the organic nature of the sandbox, which is surprising considering some of your other statements. There's plenty of ways the AT effects New Eden...

A)Fits and comps used in the tournament can trickle into usage.

B)The market surely is at least somewhat impacted by so many teams scrambling to pay the entry fee.

C)AT ships weave their lossmails into the rich, storied canvas of New Eden.

D)Alliance structures may shift in response to be qualified, which in turn may result in meeting and interacting with people you wouldn't have normally, which obviously can have a big impact on the way you play the game.

E)Teams that do well generally have much more street cred than teams that run away like scared children, which impacts all sorts of things; is this fit good, is this a gang I should run away from? Again, I would at least think twice about engaging a Camel Empire pilot, but a CODE. pilot?

The butterfly effect does not just stop because you want to partition the AT from New Eden.



I accept your correction.

I support the New Order and CODE. alliance. www.minerbumping.com

mynnna
State War Academy
Caldari State
#303 - 2015-02-03 19:51:37 UTC
Sabriz Adoudel wrote:


For example, the Tiamat anti-AWOXing changes will result in increased safety for (the more careless) highsec miners. This will lead to an increased Mexallon supply gamewide, and hence an increase in supercapital proliferation. A change aimed at highsec that has only tangential direct impact on lowsec will end up having significant indirect impacts on sovereign nullsec.


Um. Ugh okay, while it's nice to see CODE actually taking something that isn't ganking seriously for once, this sort of offends me.

So firsties, I've taken to importing minerals to Deklein, because someone's gotta do it. I have zero issues getting huge quantities of compressed mexallon bearing ores, and my largest buyers are our supercap producers. The ones that supply themselves also have no trouble. Just an anecdote.

Second, some hard data?

http://i.imgur.com/ReUZfak.jpg

Plagioclase & Pyroxeres are the main mexallon bearing ores in highsec. The volume of Plagioclase mined in those top nine or ten regions would yield about 442 billion units of mex minimum (if all refined in nullsec), and the Pyroxeres is good for another 240 billion units minimum.

By comparison, a supercarrier uses about 93 million units (tops, that's no research on the hull BPO or component BPOs). A Titan uses ~330m units, same caveat. So, 7350 supercarriers, or a little over two thousand titans worth.

Of course, plenty of other stuff gets built too and supercap construction in EVE only uses, believe it or not, about ten percent of the mineral supply at most.

Y'know? I think that whatever you no longer can kill due to awoxing is a drop in the bucket, and that most of them you'll probably just gank conventionally anyway. So, I think we'll be okay.

Member of the Goonswarm Economic Warfare Cabal

Amyclas Amatin
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#304 - 2015-02-04 10:03:12 UTC
Vic Jefferson wrote:
Sabriz Adoudel wrote:
The AT doesn't shape EVE in any way, so I didn't mind us not taking it seriously (although I wasn't involved in the decision).


This sort of displays a lack of understanding of the organic nature of the sandbox, which is surprising considering some of your other statements. There's plenty of ways the AT effects New Eden...

A)Fits and comps used in the tournament can trickle into usage.

B)The market surely is at least somewhat impacted by so many teams scrambling to pay the entry fee.

C)AT ships weave their lossmails into the rich, storied canvas of New Eden.

D)Alliance structures may shift in response to be qualified, which in turn may result in meeting and interacting with people you wouldn't have normally, which obviously can have a big impact on the way you play the game.

E)Teams that do well generally have much more street cred than teams that run away like scared children, which impacts all sorts of things; is this fit good, is this a gang I should run away from? Again, I would at least think twice about engaging a Camel Empire pilot, but a CODE. pilot?

The butterfly effect does not just stop because you want to partition the AT from New Eden.



I too see people doing elite pvp in tinker-tanked t3s and unstoppable marauder flagships in tranquility. The innovation that goes on in the AT has far reaching consequences indeed. The fact that everyone uses nothing but the drone meta shows how the AT reflects and even dictates the general sentiment of the balance of ships and modules.

For more information on the New Order of High-Sec, please visit: http://www.minerbumping.com/

Remember that whenever you have a bad day in EVE, the correct reponse is "Thank you CCP, may I please have another?"

Vic Jefferson
Stimulus
Rote Kapelle
#305 - 2015-02-04 11:10:02 UTC
Amyclas Amatin wrote:

I too see people doing elite pvp in tinker-tanked t3s and unstoppable marauder flagships in tranquility. The innovation that goes on in the AT has far reaching consequences indeed. The fact that everyone uses nothing but the drone meta shows how the AT reflects and even dictates the general sentiment of the balance of ships and modules.


Meh, I used the word trickle intentionally, no need to jump on it. Yes, you do actually see some rather heroic marauders on tranquility from time to time, as well as interesting solo-logi fits or other gimmicks, you just need to know where and when to look. Obviously tranquility and the AT are very distinct environments from each other.

Vote Vic Jefferson for CSM X.....XI.....XII?

Sabriz Adoudel
Move along there is nothing here
#306 - 2015-02-04 11:27:08 UTC  |  Edited by: Sabriz Adoudel
(Minor edits made now that I'm typing on a computer, not a phone; the content is unchanged)

Vic Jefferson wrote:
Amyclas Amatin wrote:

I too see people doing elite pvp in tinker-tanked t3s and unstoppable marauder flagships in tranquility. The innovation that goes on in the AT has far reaching consequences indeed. The fact that everyone uses nothing but the drone meta shows how the AT reflects and even dictates the general sentiment of the balance of ships and modules.


Meh, I used the word trickle intentionally, no need to jump on it. Yes, you do actually see some rather heroic marauders on tranquility from time to time, as well as interesting solo-logi fits or other gimmicks, you just need to know where and when to look. Obviously tranquility and the AT are very distinct environments from each other.


Marauders are *insanely* powerful in highsec; the only reason that they aren't fielded there much is that the entities who would fight over objectives in highsec generally prefer hit and run strategies. This is part of (non-gank) highsec combat's identity - you have fewer clues as to the capacity of the opponent to escalate, because there are always neutrals in system, and they might be out of corp alts of your opponents with standing corp invites they can dock, take, and be in combat with you inside a minute.

Additionally Marauders are stigmatized as pure PVE boats due to their history. Prior to the introduction of Bastion Mode their purpose was to combine 90% of the PVE capabilities of a Vindicator with 50% of the utility of a Noctis.

This has now changed. Marauders, broadly speaking, outperform pirate faction battleships in general PVP engagements in highsec if properly fitted (unless your entire operation is based around playing to a unique strength of a pirate BS).

The strengths of Marauders, however, do not suit other areas of space because they are extremely soft to capital ships. They are still underused.

This is an interesting digression but I reiterate my point - I was wrong to claim the AT is irrelevant but the original argument - that CODE. regards the CSM as too important to EVE to troll - remains.

I support the New Order and CODE. alliance. www.minerbumping.com

John A Than
Big Gay Towers
#307 - 2015-02-04 15:48:05 UTC
You have the support of all my accounts. Highsec needs a voice from someone who will not dumb it down.
Haedonism Bot
Revolutionary Front
#308 - 2015-02-04 17:28:17 UTC
Sabriz Adoudel wrote:
...but the original argument - that CODE. regards the CSM as too important to EVE to troll - remains.


Nothing in EVE is too important to troll.Big smile

Just had to add that, sorry. Carry on folks, vote Sabriz!

www.everevolutionaryfront.blogspot.com

Vote Sabriz Adoudel and Tora Bushido for CSMX. Keep the Evil in EVE!

Andouille Sausage
Special Political Education Response Groups
#309 - 2015-02-06 22:44:23 UTC
Marmite calm down.

Clothe Tora Bushido
Sabriz Adoudel
Move along there is nothing here
#310 - 2015-02-06 22:51:24 UTC
Andouille Sausage wrote:
Marmite calm down.

Clothe Tora Bushido



Literally laughing out loud. This *needs* to be added to the Aurum store.

I support the New Order and CODE. alliance. www.minerbumping.com

La Rynx
School of Applied Knowledge
Caldari State
#311 - 2015-02-07 19:33:38 UTC  |  Edited by: La Rynx
Sabriz Adoudel wrote:

The AT doesn't shape EVE in any way***, so I didn't mind us not taking it seriously (although I wasn't involved in the decision).


As always CODE. is not in the slightest way coherent.
So if you did not take the AT seriously, why should one believe you mean this really serious? Because you said so? Codies said they'd take AT serious. Was that a lie? That where some other codies?

More than one time codies hide behind the lie "roleplay". More than any other of of postings writen by codie-"diplomats", your posting here are really officical comments from a code-member. Thank you for for confirming some of my posts. The whole discussion about why code ganks falls back in place.

As Lucas already pointed out, your position is solely based on code-wishes ignoring and rejecting the vaild wishes of other paying EvE players. There are miners and pve'lers, the reason why, doesn't need to bother you as a player or a codie. Worse, as a CSM candiate, i expect you to consider and RESPECT them to. The concept of respect is something codies have a problem with respect, reading forum- and blogposts. (want respect but vastly disrespect others, that does not work)

Another thing is, that you like many others, overestimate the influence CSM can take. CCP will listen to advise thy get from players, but in the end, CCP will decide what is going to happen. As Lucas stated, the CSM should not be biased to one type of playstyle, but to all possible playstyles. The whole point of CSM is NOT to make EvE a "better place", the point is to make EvE interesting for a great variety of playstiles. Therefore constructive thoughts for all playstyles are required. You are not elected to be president or governer that makes decissions. You will be less than a lobbyist, cause you lack incentives.


Black Pedro wrote:
Stuff

this is not about code matters, it is about CSM stuff. If Sabriz really gets the job, you won't be there. Its even assumed, that she will handle that on her account.

To get my vote she would need to think out of the code-box. As i worked through this thread, she appears not willing to do so.

As per "post-bumping":
Sabriz if you think those "bumps" of Lucas did you do any good without good answers, you are mistaken. We will see if codies have enough alts to boost you. And even if you get the job, you might be surprised how powerless and without influence you are.

Atomic Virulent : "You can't spell DOUCHE. without CODE."

Neo Kathura
Doomheim
#312 - 2015-02-08 02:47:46 UTC  |  Edited by: Neo Kathura
Sabriz Adoudel wrote:
The AT doesn't shape EVE in any way***, so I didn't mind us not taking it seriously (although I wasn't involved in the decision). Some people thought our antics there were hilarious, some thought they were childish. The actual story was that we missed the deadline to get higher skillpoint CODE. supporters (like myself) that were not formally part of the alliance into the alliance, and so the team we had to field was basically unable to compete to win. They couldn't deal with opponents tanking against Kin/Therm damage.
The problem I have with the AT situation is that it's an official event, and it was in part ruined because CODE decided to troll. That's no different in my eyes from wrecking an event at fanfest. If you don't want to take part, don't take part.

I'm actually quite surprised you consider it as irrelevant as you do. People running for CSM obviously care about EVE, and the AT is a big part of EVE. Turning a section of it into a joke and a scam for isk is pretty disrespectful, and it undermines the whole event. I do understand like you said though that you weren't involved, but is it something you'd consider doing in the future? I'd hope that the people I'm voting for wouldn't.
Kaarous Aldurald
Black Hydra Consortium.
#313 - 2015-02-08 13:13:54 UTC
La Rynx wrote:
The whole point of CSM is NOT to make EvE a "better place", the point is to make EvE interesting for a great variety of playstiles. Therefore constructive thoughts for all playstyles are required.


I love hearing this from the inveterate carebear.

Hypocrisy tastes good in the morning. The likes of you, who have been trying to smother PvP playstyles in this game for literally years, do not get to lecture anyone about self interest.

"Verily, I have often laughed at the weaklings who thought themselves good because they had no claws."

One of ours, ten of theirs.

Best Meltdown Ever.

Black Pedro
Mine.
#314 - 2015-02-08 13:34:56 UTC
La Rynx wrote:

Another thing is, that you like many others, overestimate the influence CSM can take. CCP will listen to advise thy get from players, but in the end, CCP will decide what is going to happen. As Lucas stated, the CSM should not be biased to one type of playstyle, but to all possible playstyles. The whole point of CSM is NOT to make EvE a "better place", the point is to make EvE interesting for a great variety of playstiles. Therefore constructive thoughts for all playstyles are required. You are not elected to be president or governer that makes decissions. You will be less than a lobbyist, cause you lack incentives.

Exactly. So why not elect a CSM member who represents the highsec content creation play-style? Someone who can give insight to CCP regarding wardecs, suicide ganking, baiting, scamming and other such shenanigans highsec villains get up to?

Sabriz has extensive experience in these as well as industry and corporation mechanics so would make a most excellent CSM to represent these play-styles. You are correct that we need a balanced CSM that represents all parts of the player base and that includes highsec wardeccers and suicide gankers.
Haedonism Bot
Revolutionary Front
#315 - 2015-02-08 16:52:16 UTC  |  Edited by: Haedonism Bot
Neo Kathura wrote:
The problem I have with the AT situation is that it's an official event, and it was in part ruined because CODE decided to troll. That's no different in my eyes from wrecking an event at fanfest. If you don't want to take part, don't take part.

I'm actually quite surprised you consider it as irrelevant as you do. People running for CSM obviously care about EVE, and the AT is a big part of EVE. Turning a section of it into a joke and a scam for isk is pretty disrespectful, and it undermines the whole event. I do understand like you said though that you weren't involved, but is it something you'd consider doing in the future? I'd hope that the people I'm voting for wouldn't.


I don't think that CODE. really made a conscious decision to troll the AT. A few of our people were interested in the tournament and put our names into the hat, but most of us had no interest in it at all. Hence we were not able to put a serious team together. Nothing was "ruined", and the response was disproportionate to the offense. Many teams have failed to turn up for the AT in the past and it was never a big deal.

Nevertheless, nothing of value was lost. The AT is not "a big part of EVE", it is a sideshow - an event of interest only to a minority of EVE players. My personal opinion is that the AT is exactly the sort of instanced, consensual, consequence-free PvP that has no place in EVE Online. Frankly it is the sort of thing that the New Order is supposed to be opposing on principle.

A true alliance tournament, on the real spirit of this game, would be held in a neutral system somewhere - perhaps Thera, for example, so that we all could observe or interfere, or gank the teams en-route to the tournament. Now that would be an AT worthy of this game.

www.everevolutionaryfront.blogspot.com

Vote Sabriz Adoudel and Tora Bushido for CSMX. Keep the Evil in EVE!

Sabriz Adoudel
Move along there is nothing here
#316 - 2015-02-09 01:56:54 UTC
Not really going to comment more on the AT incident after this post. I'll reiterate I was not eligible to be part of the CODE. team due to the alliance membership tenure criteria, and so paid no attention to what we were doing.

Had the decision been mine to make, I would not have entered a tournament that CODE.'s nature (as mostly an alliance of low SP alts with very focused training) means we had no chance in.

Interestingly, my corporation (virtually none of whom met the eligibility criteria last time) could probably field a quarterway decent AT team now as we've recruited some higher SP people that have long supported CODE. (like myself), but we don't have any intention to appeal the AT ban or to apply for an exemption for individuals that weren't involved. Part of EVE is that actions have consequences, and I'm OK with wearing them.

I support the New Order and CODE. alliance. www.minerbumping.com

Feyd Rautha Harkonnen
Doomheim
#317 - 2015-02-09 20:31:56 UTC
John A Than wrote:
You have the support of all my accounts. Highsec needs a voice from someone who will not dumb it down.

Quoted for truth & quality.

F
Tengu Grib
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#318 - 2015-02-09 20:50:09 UTC
Andouille Sausage wrote:
Marmite calm down.

Clothe Tora Bushido


Where do I buy that shirt?

Rabble Rabble Rabble

Praise James, Supreme Protector of High Sec.

Sabriz Adoudel
Move along there is nothing here
#319 - 2015-02-10 03:58:11 UTC  |  Edited by: Sabriz Adoudel
Updated the third post with a recommended voting order. This is subject to change if other exceptional candidates are brought to my attention; or, for that matter, if other fair or good candidates want to make a cross-endorsement deal.

I support the New Order and CODE. alliance. www.minerbumping.com

Vic Jefferson
Stimulus
Rote Kapelle
#320 - 2015-02-10 05:42:49 UTC
Haedonism Bot wrote:

Nevertheless, nothing of value was lost. The AT is not "a big part of EVE", it is a sideshow - an event of interest only to a minority of EVE players. My personal opinion is that the AT is exactly the sort of instanced, consensual, consequence-free PvP that has no place in EVE Online. Frankly it is the sort of thing that the New Order is supposed to be opposing on principle.


Sure something of value was lost, something which, unlike mining barges, cannot be simply purchased back. I seem to recall Cannibal Kane actually posting that he was at least miffed that CODE hadn't taken the tournament seriously, as he one day hoped to participate - If you can't take his opinion as an authority on Hi Sec content creation as worthwhile, I think you are a little daft. You lost credibility. You lost face. Good luck trying to get those back.

I could just as easily disparage ganking as something that only appeals to, as well as only being relevant to, a minority of EVE players. I won't though, because I'm not so pompous and full of my own self congratulatory drivel that I have to vomit it up all over the place. I would recommend actually participating in the tournament before you make a judgement, but that's sort of impossible now, isn't it?





Vote Vic Jefferson for CSM X.....XI.....XII?