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Alpha gank delay
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Gawain Edmond
Khanid Bureau of Industry
#21 - 2014-11-24 11:01:15 UTC
Jenshae Chiroptera wrote:
Gawain Edmond wrote:
is this a stealth (something) thread?


No. I try and speak plainly.
This "steal thread" meme wasn't funny the first time I read it and it saddens me that this is what passes for wit around here now. Sad



Sadly it's the only way that this idea would work alot of the ships that get ganked are designed to be armor tanks if you tank them at all. A 1.5 second delay in exploding while enough time to lock someone isn't enough time for armor reps to do anything at all. The only way it would work is by either making armor reps land at the start of the cycle or giving them less repping power per cycle and a 1 second cycle time to bring the rep ammount upto the current ammount and even then I'm not sure it'd help anyway.

So the only way this idea would ever work is if you buffed/changed remote armor reps, so if this isn't a stealth request to buff/change remote armor reps I don't know what is.
Jenshae Chiroptera
#22 - 2014-11-24 11:08:17 UTC  |  Edited by: Jenshae Chiroptera
Gawain Edmond wrote:

Sadly it's the only way that this idea would work alot of the ships that get ganked are designed to be armor tanks if you tank them at all. A 1.5 second delay in exploding while enough time to lock someone isn't enough time for armor reps to do anything at all. The only way it would work is by either making armor reps land at the start of the cycle or giving them less repping power per cycle and a 1 second cycle time to bring the rep ammount upto the current ammount and even then I'm not sure it'd help anyway.

So the only way this idea would ever work is if you buffed/changed remote armor reps, so if this isn't a stealth request to buff/change remote armor reps I don't know what is.


Thank you. This is a reason mine is shield tanked. Unfortunately, it means sebo logi so they lock you as soon as you de-cloak. The little delay is for them to hit their rep modules.

Again though, stuck on the example.

I fly logi and it really frustrates me to see ships just disappear under volleys. They will pre-call for repps when they see the enemies light up with yellow boxes and *fwoosh* they are gone. Entire tank in one go.

CCP - Building ant hills and magnifying glasses for fat kids

Not even once

EVE is becoming shallow and puerile; it will satisfy neither the veteran nor the "WoW" type crowd in the transition.
Zylona Femtov
Center for Advanced Studies
Gallente Federation
#23 - 2014-11-24 12:40:39 UTC
Indy are far too easy target for a bunch of bullies that don't do anything good.

They use very cheap hardware to destroyed very expensive ships and cargo.
Adding the fact that Concord is far too slow to respond.

Some game mechanics should be rethink here.
Those people don't have balls to play, just acting like bullies in a playground.
Daichi Yamato
Jabbersnarks and Wonderglass
#24 - 2014-11-24 12:44:05 UTC
Zylona Femtov wrote:
Indy are far too easy target for a bunch of bullies that don't do anything good.

They use very cheap hardware to destroyed very expensive ships and cargo.
Adding the fact that Concord is far too slow to respond.

Some game mechanics should be rethink here.
Those people don't have balls to play, just acting like bullies in a playground.


this might not be the right game for you...

EVE FAQ "7.2 CAN I AVOID PVP COMPLETELY? No; there are no systems or locations in New Eden where PvP may be completely avoided"

Daichi Yamato's version of structure based decs
Komi Toran
Perkone
Caldari State
#25 - 2014-11-24 17:17:32 UTC
Zylona Femtov wrote:
Indy are far too easy target for a bunch of bullies that (A)don't do anything good.

They use very cheap hardware to (B)destroyed very expensive ships and cargo.

The industrialist in me demands that I inform you that statement (A) is contradicted by statement (B).
Jean Luc Lemmont
Carebears on Fire
#26 - 2014-11-24 17:44:43 UTC
Zylona Femtov wrote:
Indy are far too easy target for a bunch of bullies that don't do anything good.

They use very cheap hardware to destroyed very expensive ships and cargo.
Adding the fact that Concord is far too slow to respond.

Some game mechanics should be rethink here.
Those people don't have balls to play, just acting like bullies in a playground.


The fact that you refer to a certain segment of legitamate game play as bullies says worlds about your own perspective on the game.

Will I get banned for boxing!?!?!

This thread has degenerated to the point it's become like two bald men fighting over a comb. -- Doc Fury

It's bonuses, not boni, you cretins.
Tineoidea Asanari
Liga Freier Terraner
Northern Coalition.
#27 - 2014-11-24 19:28:17 UTC
Jenshae Chiroptera wrote:
I have now flown all of the Gallente Haulers. They all have rubbish tanks. You might be able to hull tank and shield tank a few for somewhat okay eHP but then you move slower than a freighter.


Run a MWD 1 cycle and you are much faster in warp. Freighters cant do this, they need webbers.

Quote:
The Viator has covert cloak that helps a fair bit.


A fair bit means that you are basically uncatchable without bubbles, as long as you are using instant dock/undock spots.

Quote:
However, the Occator? Even trying to make it fast, it is a horribly slow ship and again no real tank to speak of


You know that the Occator has a bonus on overheating stuff? Pre-heat your hardeners and as soon as you see a swarm of Catalysts/Talos warping to you, you activate the mods. You might want to fit specific faction hardeners, those cost around ~ 3 - 5 million each and give a significant boost to your tank

Quote:
and you need a scout & pings then you sit around cloaked while slowly aligning to places. Wasting huge amounts of two people's time to move a cargo worth as much as the ship (and it isn't worth what you pay for it)


First off: Use a MWD to accelerate getting into warp. Even Capitals use this fairly effectivly, so dont tell me it doesnt work for your Occator.
Second: If your Cargo isnt worth it, noone will gank you.

Quote:
What I am essentially saying is that if a gank is set up perfectly, there is nothing you can do. You are blown up.

How about a volley can only take you down to 50% of your eHP and then it takes another 1.5 seconds before you can wipe it out? This would mean the logi have the time to lock, the same time as you but they can then respond.


If someone sets up something perfectly, you wouldnt have a chance either way. And they earned to get that kill on you.
Your buff to logistics would be fairly stupid. Right now logistics as force multiplier is already closely-to-overpowered or already overpowered. At least its's very strong. If I - as someone flying like only logistics - am able to give reps in fleets where we encounter more incoming DPS on ships tanked just as hard, you shouldnt have a hard time either. Maybe you need to skill "Signature Analysis" or you might wanna fit a Sensor Booster on your Logi.
McChicken Combo HalfMayo
The Happy Meal
#28 - 2014-11-24 20:43:38 UTC  |  Edited by: McChicken Combo HalfMayo
Jenshae Chiroptera wrote:

The tank doesn't buy you any time, a ship scan and a calculation later the right number of ships are waiting. However, you can fly a ship without modules if you have a good scout.

You must have missed my post.

You can get 900xx EHP with a slaved Impel so yes the tank buys you everything you need to stay safe.

The Nereus and Badger can hit over 50xx EHP while fit for the cloak-MWD maneuver. There's 3 reasons why you will rarely be ganked like this. They can't scan you so they won't know if it's profitable. You can use the same maneuver on the gank gate and won't be catchable. They gank solo or in small groups, rarely having the 4-5 guys on standby needed within the next couple minutes to make this happen.

There is no issue hauling safely in high-sec, none whatsoever. Only freighters propose a reasonable level of risk.

There are all our dominion

Gate camps: "Its like the lowsec watercooler, just with explosions and boose" - Ralph King-Griffin
Andrew Indy
Cleaning Crew
#29 - 2014-11-25 03:56:24 UTC
McChicken Combo HalfMayo wrote:
[quote=Jenshae Chiroptera]


The Nereus and Badger can hit over 50xx EHP while fit for the cloak-MWD maneuver.


MWD + Cloak trick is super useful . If it can get you past huge gangs in Low Sec (It can, I use it all the time) then it should be even easier in HS.

As long as you can fit a MWD + T2 cloak you have no reason to get caught other than lazyness.
Reaver Glitterstim
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#30 - 2014-11-25 05:34:49 UTC  |  Edited by: Reaver Glitterstim
I don't see a problem with sudden death in EVE. If you want to push for a firing delay on artillery, I might be on-board. But what you propose is out of the question and I will not offer support.


baltec1 wrote:
Go find a freighter that was alpha'ed.

I have an orca on my killboard that was alpha'ed. Close enough?
Trust me, it happens.
edit: I can't find the orca killmail, not sure what happened to it.

FT Diomedes: "Reaver, sometimes I wonder what you are thinking when you sit down to post."

Frostys Virpio: "We have to give it to him that he does put more effort than the vast majority in his idea but damn does it sometime come out of nowhere."
Jenshae Chiroptera
#31 - 2014-11-25 23:31:36 UTC
I am sure somewhere that I meantioned the MWD trick. Anyway, it is an exploit work around and when they fix it to how they intende the ship to work, what will you fall back on?

CCP - Building ant hills and magnifying glasses for fat kids

Not even once

EVE is becoming shallow and puerile; it will satisfy neither the veteran nor the "WoW" type crowd in the transition.
8 EyedSpy
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#32 - 2014-11-25 23:42:02 UTC
Jenshae Chiroptera wrote:
No chance for your team to apply some skill to change the outcome?


Whining to ccp to change mechanics is not skillful gameplay.
ShahFluffers
Ice Fire Warriors
#33 - 2014-11-26 00:01:15 UTC
Jenshae Chiroptera wrote:
I am sure somewhere that I meantioned the MWD trick. Anyway, it is an exploit work around and when they fix it to how they intende the ship to work, what will you fall back on?

The MWD-trick may be a workaround... but it is a clever one that has been around for ages and CCP doesn't seem to mind (see: only CCP can declare something an exploit). The same applies for the webbing-trick.

And how are Deep Space Transports "intended to work?"
The way I see it... they are industrial ships that give up speed/mobility in exchange for a very beefy tank and a relatively large cargo hold.

How did you Veterans start?
Reaver Glitterstim
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#34 - 2014-11-26 01:54:21 UTC
ShahFluffers wrote:
Jenshae Chiroptera wrote:
I am sure somewhere that I meantioned the MWD trick. Anyway, it is an exploit work around and when they fix it to how they intende the ship to work, what will you fall back on?

The MWD-trick may be a workaround... but it is a clever one that has been around for ages and CCP doesn't seem to mind (see: only CCP can declare something an exploit). The same applies for the webbing-trick.

I think the MWD-cloak, web, and other insta-warp tricks are things CCP dislikes being available, but which they see no decent way to remove. As they are a decent company and against arbitrary rules that press unreasonable limits against players (might be the only decent MMO company out there) they refuse to stoop and make arbitrary rulings either preventing the "exploit" or banning players for using it. And so they declare it okay, and it gets used to such great effect that it is the status quo.

But I imagine if CCP discovered a clever way to make it not work without stepping on any toes save for those who are relying on the advantage they get from insta-warp tricks, that CCP would implement it if even slowly or tentatively to see what happens.

FT Diomedes: "Reaver, sometimes I wonder what you are thinking when you sit down to post."

Frostys Virpio: "We have to give it to him that he does put more effort than the vast majority in his idea but damn does it sometime come out of nowhere."
ShahFluffers
Ice Fire Warriors
#35 - 2014-11-26 02:03:32 UTC
Reaver Glitterstim wrote:
I think the MWD-cloak, web, and other insta-warp tricks are things CCP dislikes being available, but which they see no decent way to remove.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Q38HD7PbN4o&feature=youtu.be&t=19m15s

If you back up a bit, you'll hear about the design principles that the DEVs teams try to adhere to.
Basically they are fine with some workarounds as long as there a margin of error that other players can take advantage of... or something along those lines.


So you are right Reaver that CCP isn't unreasonable when it comes to certain things and will bend a bit. But it those rulings seem to be based more on the spirit of what they want the game to be than the hard letter of the rules themselves.

How did you Veterans start?
Jenshae Chiroptera
#36 - 2014-11-26 22:05:47 UTC
Cracking down on multi-boxing. Maybe they will crack down on exploits.

CCP - Building ant hills and magnifying glasses for fat kids

Not even once

EVE is becoming shallow and puerile; it will satisfy neither the veteran nor the "WoW" type crowd in the transition.
Anhenka
The New Federation
Sigma Grindset
#37 - 2014-11-26 22:23:57 UTC
Jenshae Chiroptera wrote:
Cracking down on multi-boxing. Maybe they will crack down on exploits.


What exploits...


Do you consider ganking an exploit.....?
Jenshae Chiroptera
#38 - 2014-11-27 02:10:28 UTC
Anhenka wrote:
Jenshae Chiroptera wrote:
Cracking down on multi-boxing. Maybe they will crack down on exploits.


What exploits...


Do you consider ganking an exploit.....?


No, it is a philosphy with which I disagree. You clearly haven't read the thread. P

CCP - Building ant hills and magnifying glasses for fat kids

Not even once

EVE is becoming shallow and puerile; it will satisfy neither the veteran nor the "WoW" type crowd in the transition.
FT Diomedes
The Graduates
#39 - 2014-11-27 02:32:51 UTC
Jenshae Chiroptera wrote:
Cracking down on multi-boxing. Maybe they will crack down on exploits.


Just because you call it an exploit, does not make it so. Hitting your MWD, then hitting your cloak, is a tactic that has been around for ages, and is well-established. Only CCP can change my word "tactic" to your "exploit." So long as it is not foolproof, they are unlikely to do that.

CCP should add more NPC 0.0 space to open it up and liven things up: the Stepping Stones project.

Jenshae Chiroptera
#40 - 2014-11-27 03:20:21 UTC  |  Edited by: Jenshae Chiroptera
FT Diomedes wrote:
Jenshae Chiroptera wrote:
Cracking down on multi-boxing. Maybe they will crack down on exploits.


Just because you call it an exploit, does not make it so. Hitting your MWD, then hitting your cloak, is a tactic that has been around for ages, and is well-established. Only CCP can change my word "tactic" to your "exploit." So long as it is not foolproof, they are unlikely to do that.

Quote:
In video games, an exploit (colloquially sploit) is the use of a bug or glitches, game system, rates, hit boxes, or speed, etc. by a player to their advantage in a manner not intended by the game's designers.


There, I looked the word up for you.

CCP - Building ant hills and magnifying glasses for fat kids

Not even once

EVE is becoming shallow and puerile; it will satisfy neither the veteran nor the "WoW" type crowd in the transition.
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