These forums have been archived and are now read-only.

The new forums are live and can be found at https://forums.eveonline.com/

Player Features and Ideas Discussion

 
  • Topic is locked indefinitely.
 

would the world end if modules automatically stopped overheat at 99%

First post
Author
Frostys Virpio
KarmaFleet
Goonswarm Federation
#41 - 2014-11-20 17:30:27 UTC
Rain6637 wrote:
Daichi Yamato wrote:

Are you saying you can over heat normally to the point of 99% damage and then switch to 'alpha' oveheat and benefit from the full effects of that massive O/H bonus and only suffer 1% module damage?

yeah, regardless of what you did before the alpha cycle, it is guaranteed burnout after. if you want to be smart about it, anyway, yes that is the best time--at the end of its damage. 1 last volley, 1 last rep, etc.

heat could also be applied to just one stat of a module, like optimal, damage, or tracking. activated by a radial menu to select heated attribute. right now, heat is a fairly blunt operation.

limited heat could have a drawback of another attribute being reduced. say you want more optimal or falloff, and you have the target dead to rights and you don't need as much tracking.


How much alpha % do you think it could give on the insta burnout mode?
Rain6637
Simulacra and Simulation
Dracarys.
#42 - 2014-11-20 18:10:04 UTC
Agondray
Avenger Mercenaries
VOID Intergalactic Forces
#43 - 2014-11-20 18:16:23 UTC
I would be happy if like modules burn at the same rate. I don't like stopping at 89% on my blasters and 2 have hit 100% and broken

"Sarcasm is the Recourse of a weak mind." -Dr. Smith

Wolf Incaelum
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#44 - 2014-11-20 18:20:41 UTC
TheExtruder wrote:
dont understand why we are still stuck with the idea that there is nothing you can do about cooling down systems when they are overheated. like not being able to put water over a flame, doesnt add up

in real life cooling is a big deal, it would be illogical if ccp didnt continue building on and evolving the overheat mechanic. because if overheat exists then cooling needs to exist too, there is simply no logic and no depth to a mechanic which has now become so commonly used


Your modules that can overheat do so because they...well, they generate heat. Just like the engine of your car in real life (if you have a car). Your car's engine generates heat, but it has a cooling system that keeps your engine's heat level below a certain temperature. But sometimes things go wrong, or perhaps someone wants to try to push his car to the limit, and the cooling system is no longer able to keep up with the heat that the engine is producing. Heads get welded to blocks, pistons get launched through the head of the engine, turret barrels become warped, and so on. It's another risk vs. reward scenario. Do you want to do less damage so that you don't have to worry about a burnout, or do you want take the risk of a burnout for the ability to blast the tears out of your enemy even faster?

What you're asking for is the ability to take the risk of a burnout in exchange for more damage, but then remove the risk. You're literally asking to be able to increase your damage/point range/speed bonus/etc. on the fly for no reason, and at no cost. You already have a way to increase the time it takes for your mods to burn out; train Thermodynamics to level 5. After that, all I can suggest is just paying attention to your mods. Turn them off before they burn out and use Nanite Paste.

ANARCHYFOREVAAARRRRRRRRRR!!!!!!!

Antillie Sa'Kan
Imperial Shipment
Amarr Empire
#45 - 2014-11-20 18:30:18 UTC
Frostys Virpio wrote:
How much alpha % do you think it could give on the insta burnout mode?

More importantly, how would this affect gank tornados? Oh wait, you mean we might have to change something else to keep this change from causing issues and throwing off an entire ship and role in the process?

I think that creative modifications to the heat mechanic are probably best left to the realm of T3 cruisers. They were supposed to be a heat focused class to begin with. Instead they are just plain over powered or under powered depending on the fit and just happen to be able to overheat for longer than other ships on top of that.
Rain6637
Simulacra and Simulation
Dracarys.
#46 - 2014-11-20 18:34:53 UTC
it's funny, the benchmark I would start with is tornado alpha. it can alpha itself already, and a couple can alpha a tengu. perhaps a group of 4 can alpha a battleship.

higher damage for lower survivability is a thing, and the latest example is polarized guns. so apparently CCP is ok with the idea of more damage for a drawback.

alpha burnout with polarized guns, now we're talking.
Frostys Virpio
KarmaFleet
Goonswarm Federation
#47 - 2014-11-20 19:03:29 UTC
Antillie Sa'Kan wrote:
Frostys Virpio wrote:
How much alpha % do you think it could give on the insta burnout mode?

More importantly, how would this affect gank tornados? Oh wait, you mean we might have to change something else to keep this change from causing issues and throwing off an entire ship and role in the process?


That was the entire point of the question tbh. I guess thrasher fit in this category of "what if" ship to look at too if something like that was to come.
Frostys Virpio
KarmaFleet
Goonswarm Federation
#48 - 2014-11-20 19:05:31 UTC
Rain6637 wrote:
it's funny, the benchmark I would start with is tornado alpha. it can alpha itself already, and a couple can alpha a tengu. perhaps a group of 4 can alpha a battleship.

higher damage for lower survivability is a thing, and the latest example is polarized guns. so apparently CCP is ok with the idea of more damage for a drawback.

alpha burnout with polarized guns, now we're talking.


There isn't any lower survivability of you are using it for ganking. How tanky of a ship can be ganked even in a 1.0 system if arty get more possible alpha?
Rivr Luzade
Coreli Corporation
Pandemic Legion
#49 - 2014-11-20 19:15:42 UTC
Frostys Virpio wrote:
Rain6637 wrote:
it's funny, the benchmark I would start with is tornado alpha. it can alpha itself already, and a couple can alpha a tengu. perhaps a group of 4 can alpha a battleship.

higher damage for lower survivability is a thing, and the latest example is polarized guns. so apparently CCP is ok with the idea of more damage for a drawback.

alpha burnout with polarized guns, now we're talking.


There isn't any lower survivability of you are using it for ganking. How tanky of a ship can be ganked even in a 1.0 system if arty get more possible alpha?


Enough so that Blow Job 4 doesn't end in the disaster of this year's Blow Job 3.

UI Improvement Collective

My ridicule, heavy criticism and general pale outlook about your or CCP's ideas is nothing but an encouragement to prove me wrong. Give it a try.

Rain6637
Simulacra and Simulation
Dracarys.
#50 - 2014-11-20 19:26:38 UTC
Frostys Virpio wrote:
Rain6637 wrote:
it's funny, the benchmark I would start with is tornado alpha. it can alpha itself already, and a couple can alpha a tengu. perhaps a group of 4 can alpha a battleship.

higher damage for lower survivability is a thing, and the latest example is polarized guns. so apparently CCP is ok with the idea of more damage for a drawback.

alpha burnout with polarized guns, now we're talking.


There isn't any lower survivability of you are using it for ganking. How tanky of a ship can be ganked even in a 1.0 system if arty get more possible alpha?

i dunno... bowheads?
Ormand Audel
Doomheim
#51 - 2014-11-20 19:28:20 UTC
ShahFluffers wrote:
So you want to add a "safety" after you have clearly turned off the "safeties." An override to stop an override. Limit things when you are clearly trying to go past your limits in the first place.

Part of the idea behind overheat is that you are disabling the "safe" operation of modules for better performance... at the risk that they might burn out and leave you more helpless than if you did not.

My computer can overclock the fans, but if it uses too much power it'll lower it. Similar idea.
Also, to OP, the heat damage isn't how much it's overheated, it's how much damage has been caused by the overheating. So 99% damage means that 99% of the module is pretty much melted.
A think overheating should be changed, so the benefits are great, but the module loses effectiveness the higher the damage goes. So instead of "overheat prop mod and point for a couple of cycles while I burn into range" it becomes "if I overheat my prop mod and point now, will I be able to keep up and hold point later?"
Ormand Audel
Doomheim
#52 - 2014-11-20 19:33:59 UTC
Rain6637 wrote:
it's funny, the benchmark I would start with is tornado alpha. it can alpha itself already, and a couple can alpha a tengu. perhaps a group of 4 can alpha a battleship.

higher damage for lower survivability is a thing, and the latest example is polarized guns. so apparently CCP is ok with the idea of more damage for a drawback.

alpha burnout with polarized guns, now we're talking.
4 do like 45k damage and it costs 400m+.
Rain6637
Simulacra and Simulation
Dracarys.
#53 - 2014-11-20 19:56:40 UTC
my info must be old, I thought it was around 14k per currently. assuming level V skills
Ormand Audel
Doomheim
#54 - 2014-11-20 19:59:20 UTC
Rain6637 wrote:
my info must be old, I thought it was around 14k per currently. assuming level V skills
I think so, EFT shows 11790 Alpha with a full rack of Howitzers loaded with Quake and 4 gyrostabs. No implants or rigs.
Rain6637
Simulacra and Simulation
Dracarys.
#55 - 2014-11-20 20:09:04 UTC
top-tier officer mod performance for 1 cycle maybe. for the damage bonus, I mean.
Frostys Virpio
KarmaFleet
Goonswarm Federation
#56 - 2014-11-20 20:50:40 UTC
Rain6637 wrote:
top-tier officer mod performance for 1 cycle maybe. for the damage bonus, I mean.


From T2 to top level officer module, it's about 20% extra alpha single shot compared to the regular OH bonus of 15% ROF. If a fully skilled tornado can currently get more than one shots off while overloading, then it's not worth it to insta burn unless you can change your overload profile on the fly and burn them on the last shot you know you will get. 15% ROF bonus followed by a last shot at 20% bonus alpha would be the cap.
Rain6637
Simulacra and Simulation
Dracarys.
#57 - 2014-11-20 21:45:26 UTC  |  Edited by: Rain6637
I'm doing other things, so I can't look closely at the moment. but basically some figure that is high enough.

hey, what about an alpha strike that is so violent it makes your ship explode.
Doddy
Excidium.
#58 - 2014-11-25 00:52:33 UTC
Rain6637 wrote:
lots of naysayers, no alternatives. this is so productive.


The alternative is the completely fine mechanic we currently have....
Zavand Crendraven
Rolling Static
Wardec Mechanics
#59 - 2014-11-25 01:13:47 UTC
Semi related but id like if you could repair 100% burned mods at a mobile depot it kinda sucks when your in null and cant repair your dead heated modules unless you take a 22j route to a NPC station (or if ur like me dont have a clue where the NPC stations is in null and need to find a uncamped exit to LS or HS)
uppo nalle
Imperial Academy
Amarr Empire
#60 - 2014-11-25 02:33:03 UTC
I can't help but to shake my head... the amount of lazy, ignorant, stupid and incapable people there are playing eve these days. X If you want to be spoonfed the whole way trough there are other games. Meanwhile let the ones actually capable of playing this wonderful game keep enjoying what is left instead of turning it more into hello kitty island adventure. End of rant.

https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=256081&find=unread