EVE General Discussion

Contradiction? My posts about the downsides of wardeccs referred to how they affect new players, not how they affects vets.

They are effective against new players who don't have alts to play on. They tend to live in kinda useless PvE corps that have no chance of fighting back, and tell them to keep mining, whereupon the new players end up like lambs to the slaughter. Result - new players give up on corps, live in NPC corps, maybe ragequit the game. Assessment - bad.

Contrast that to wardeccing me, I can either just roll corp, or dock and play on alts. The last thing I will ever do is give the deccers the pleasure of acceding to their style of gameplay and fighting them.

What the wardeccs do accomplish is encouraging solo play, and discouraging social interaction in player corps. I mean if you don't feel like dropping corp you can dock up and play on alts...but fundamentally you don't even have to do that - you can set up your corp as a fly by night, and just roll it every time you get decced. Even more fundamentally, since your corp is just a shell anyway, it drives you towards solo play. The only victims here are new players in PvE corps too egotistical to disband, who get hopelessly blown to bit by the deccers.

To do a full lock out on all high sec system with all ship classes on a single player would be rather pricy. Factor in half the money going to the defender...

I think you will find it would be hardly griefing.

Sorry Marlona, lots of respect for you, but your wardec mechanic is just a griefing mechanic. Get rid of the triangle that says "player" and develop a better plan for targeting an NPC corp, would be my suggestion.


What would be a better mechanic? I don't really know myself. You're the experienced player here.


E: You know putting a high price tag on griefing isn't going to stop it. It's better not to introduce a mechanic that is so prone to be used for griefing in the first place.

Well, new players aren't doing L4s. Pause wardeclared alt, unpause other alt, go do some low SP low level thing. But I understand what you're saying. Doing a lot of these pauses can put the main at a severe disadvantage.





Yeah, ok. I can wardecs/awoxes being the primary reason why incursion corps don't exist.

Fair enough. Feel free to alter it if you like. Perhaps people should start listing things they would like to see possible. Not presenting some grand idea, but smaller things that.

For me I would like to see the all or nothing aspect go away.

1. then he can wardec him again, if the defender is being interupted by setting up a POS again, only to be taken down later, then it's definitely a win.

what about hisec? MY GAME, MY SANDBOX, MY MOON. my interest/fun > hisec, get it?

2. if people can not be arsed to defend themselves and just disband corps and/or dock up when decced and they leave the game, IMHO, it would be better for the game in the long run, this is clearly NOT the game for them. they are welcome to play other games like tera, blade&soul, etc.

i know player retention is an issue but for these people it does NOT matter, they will leave sooner or later or if they stay they will just become like you.

3. they were not happy, how could you not consider that a win? you're wierd



you're too hanged-up with marmite, i wonder why.... anyway, do you have any evidence to support this claim? do you know my alt's corp? my production were never been this high thanks to the mercs that kept my rivals docked.

Of course we all would like all wars to be fun, engaging and meaningful for all the participants, but fundamentally Eve isn't designed to balance each individual encounter - it is an open-world competitive sandbox where players are always competing on multiple levels. This means that just like random PvP fights in wormholes or lowsec, a large percentage of them are going to be one-sided affairs where one side gets stomped, or alternatively, successfully escapes and no kill results. Wars are similar in that regard that many of them do not produce kills as either one-side choose to escape/flee from the war by a multitude of methods, or perhaps the aggressor never intended to pursue a kill, but had another meta-game purpose (disrupting supply lines, trying to get members to quit, etc.) for the wardec. Therefore, the 5% figure is to be expected.

How can wars be more like those envisioned by the devblog? Fundamentally, the design of Eve is to have increased rewards flow from increased risk. Players should always have the option to flee back to relative safety of NPC corps (to rebuild if they lose everything), but if corps are going to allow players to earn increased rewards, they need to be meaningful and persistant structures that they want to defend and that can be attacked. Players earning these increased rewards can just not opt-out of a war because it is "not their play-style".

So first, make dec-dodging an exploit again. Make it harder to drop corp on a whim. Incentivize player to defend their corp. If players aren't interested in PvP, the current mechanics give them free allies to defend themselves with. They have to be made to understand that the increased rewards of a corp come with the responsibility that the have to spend some of their ISK on mercenaries to defend it. If they truly do not want to fight? fine; I would support a surrender mechanic that allows them to buy protection similar to the NPC corp for a small ISK cost and the temporary assumption of all the limitations of an NPC corp.

But even if all this done still the majority of wars are not going to result in kills, just like ship-to-ship encounters. However, this does not automatically make the mechanic broken or useless in any way.

Whilst NPC Corps and High Sec Corps have very little distinction between them, High Sec Wars will never work

Yes, and it should be on aggressor's side. So that it would be meaningful for grief decced (mistakenly called war decced) corps to hire those merks who blow aggressor's "strategical assets" to bits and make them actually have something they have to do in a war, aside from gate and hub camping for risk-free "war" griefing.
Let's face it, current grief decs are too risk averse. Make that one tiny risk for griefers on having to actually do something, and they'll go down to 4.7% of what we have now.


I for once would change a lot of things too. Aggressor corps are aggressors, and need to be automatically set to -10.0 sec status, have a structure they have to defend, and should have 50% tax going to defender on ships blown up. Which is just exactly as stupid as your ideas.
Also, considering the cost of even small POS running nowadays, 10% tax reduction isn't going to be profitable unless your corp makes less than 10b per month in taxable income, which is WAY over 95.3% of hisec total income range, let alone taxable. If the pos needs to be a large and well-equipped one to add, it's 40b, which is something hisec indies don't make in a year, so tax option fails.


And getting grief decced should give people an alt with 50% SP of a main, so they and you could be at least somewhat equal in alt rolling to avoid said killrights. You're right, I'm not being serious again, just mirroring the stupid to make you reflect on it.


That needs to be implemented now, the rest is not needed.


If only second part gets implemented, the complain will be less, but the grief dec will still be overwhelmingly on side of a griefer - the usually grief decced ones - indy/pve/newbie corps - would never have a fleet capable of harming a well-equipped and defended hisec POS. Most of them aren't even capable of fielding something to fend off a destroyer roam of equal numbers. They may pay for help, but still, even assuming that helper has a fleet to bring down POS, the cost is going to be WAY OVER what it takes to grief dec, so we may have the new dawn of merc corps alt-deccing people, then selling them fleet to bring down their own (stripped beforehand) POS and get all the money they invested in grief dec back (yay no sink), and get paid by the said newbies for doing it at the same time. This is too exploitable and promotes grief deccing.

I'm both hands for a meaningful war deccing, but stand severely against grief deccing. You want to harm indy corp, grab your balls and go gank them, it's not like they can avoid you, war dec or not. You want to fight, but too scared to go lowsec/nullsec/Thera/RvB/Thunderdome/Ponyland/Tournaments/Hubduels? HTFU.
A proper war dec must be meaningful and balanced. One corp paying 50m to make other corp pay 500m and still avoid gameplay for a week is not balanced. Grief deccing a group which you know to have no other choice but to avoid is not meaningful.