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EVE lore: Ecology and the Animals of New Eden

Author
Aiko Ueshiba
Doomheim
#21 - 2014-12-05 21:14:22 UTC
How many systems are in New Eden? How many planets? How many of those planets (Terrestrial, Oceanic, some Barren or Storm) could support life in some way? How many exist in a plausible enough "Goldilock's Zone" to have evolved or adapted to that planet?

Obviously, life is everywhere in New Eden. So have fun and don't jump the shark. :)

"... I assume that any work which engages with the future must necessarily consist of fragments of the past; any vision we have of the future is necessarily built of our experience to the moment in which we conceive of the vision." W. Gibson.

Vulxanis Viceroy
Offworld Trading Company
Khimi Harar
#22 - 2014-12-06 01:09:50 UTC
Aiko Ueshiba wrote:
How many systems are in New Eden? How many planets? How many of those planets (Terrestrial, Oceanic, some Barren or Storm) could support life in some way? How many exist in a plausible enough "Goldilock's Zone" to have evolved or adapted to that planet?

Obviously, life is everywhere in New Eden. So have fun and don't jump the shark. :)


Lol jumping the shark is what I'm trying to avoid. Whole point of this thread in the first place.

In Character: Only responds to "Lord Draconis"

Pronounced "Vulzanis"

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Vulxanis Viceroy
Offworld Trading Company
Khimi Harar
#23 - 2014-12-06 01:10:42 UTC
Robur Maximus wrote:
Thanks for the links, very cool to read about. Im a biologist and forester myself, would love to delve further into the fauna/flora of the Eve universe :). Im also Icelandic, maybe I should knock on CCP´s door


Lol given the size of the country, that sounds like an actual possibility.

In Character: Only responds to "Lord Draconis"

Pronounced "Vulzanis"

Reddit: https://www.reddit.com/r/Eve/comments/4fanm8/eve_in_a_nutshell_and_how_to_crack_it/

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Xiaohui
#24 - 2014-12-24 21:49:03 UTC
Here's a good rule of thumb:

If the life form or plant was domesticated and integral to human life (wheat, barely, rice, pigs, cows - tobacco!), you can assume the colonists brought it with them, and you can assume some of it survived. There is references in the lore to wheat and corn (Minmatar slaves in Empyrean Age are depicted farming wheat), "tobacco" exists as an item in-game, and we have "livestock" which resembles cows. So assume wheat, cows, tobacco, corn, possibly rice, and of course some trees and insects (terraforming would need these, unless they used cluster-native species, but I don't see why they would).
Xiaohui
#25 - 2014-12-28 12:43:45 UTC
BTW There are Walnuts in EVE as per POCO lore.
Bagrat Skalski
Koinuun Kotei
#26 - 2014-12-28 14:06:10 UTC  |  Edited by: Bagrat Skalski
Did anyone made up some animals in New Eden? Other than the lore ones? I look here sometimes with hope that there will be images with stories or something. I have to look in "My EVE" part of forum I suppose...

Meanwhile, look at my pet "Bezu". P
Omnivorous, scaly, bear sized creature.
Telegram Sam
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#27 - 2015-01-02 22:14:09 UTC
Bagrat Skalski wrote:
Did anyone made up some animals in New Eden? Other than the lore ones? I look here sometimes with hope that there will be images with stories or something. I have to look in "My EVE" part of forum I suppose...

Meanwhile, look at my pet "Bezu". P
Omnivorous, scaly, bear sized creature.

I like that Bezu. It reminds of theraspids-- those weird-looking proto-mammal ancestors of ours. Here's a picture of theraspids hunting and feeding. Scary....
Eojek
Starlight Moly
#28 - 2015-01-03 03:03:25 UTC
Think forward by 30,000 years. The fauna would have developed as much then as the ice-age creatures would have developed to now.

A lot of what would be introduced into New Eden would likely be domesticated stock that had gone wild. The dragon you mentioned? A genetically engineared savanna monitor with the body-form of a flying squirrel. Tiny pink ponies who eat their young, it could be anything!
Zenariae
#29 - 2015-01-15 07:17:37 UTC  |  Edited by: Zenariae
A fully self-sustained ecology requires all manner of animal/plant life to thrive and it’s simply not possible to create an entire ecology for a planet from scratch unless you were some sort of prolific maniac. Smile

A question that’s come up for me though is in terms of a cold terra-formed planet, such as Caldari Prime, how has the ecology evolved since terraforming for human occupation? How have any of the introduced species (if any) adapted and changed?

Also, I feel there is some discrepancy between what’s stated in Source and some of the wiki information regarding climate on this planet. Source states that Caldari Prime doesn’t experience seasonal variation on account of its stable planetary axis, however Cold Wind chronicle makes reference to autumn and elsewhere in wiki it is mentioned that Caldari Prime’s equatorial and tropic regions are temperate while the rest of the planet is tundra. It also manages sustainable food production which would suggest some warmer regions, or is it entirely managed under artificial environments? Also, mention of tropics suggests that the planet does indeed have an axis.

I bring this up as I’d like to describe some flora/fauna for Caldari Prime for Roleplay purposes but I don’t want to be called up on it as being ‘wrong’ when there are evident discrepancies to work with. How do I work around this?


Edit: Heart-of-the-Forest in Caldari spirituality would also suggest that there are indeed some more temperate and hospitable zones than tundra.
Jandice Ymladris
Aurora Arcology
#30 - 2015-01-15 10:19:54 UTC  |  Edited by: Jandice Ymladris
As you noted Caldari Prime is only temperate in the Tropic regions (who must be very small if the planet has a negligible axis rotation) & the rest of the planet is tundra to frozen. So yes, there's a more hospitable place: the equoatorial regions.

The few times I've seen the abundant food production, it tended to be in correlation with the ocean eco system. Hypothesis: It might be it lacks (top?) predators, allowing fish to flourish to the point of them overcrowding the ocean if the Caldari prime Settlers didn't catch them en masse.
Alternativly, ocean collapse was maximal, allowing only plants to thrive greatly, so settlers got tons & tons of seaweed & algae to harvest, up to the point they have to to keep the ocean from suffocating under too wild plant growth.

Landside, there's very few mention of life, albeit the Kresh Trees are native to the planet (mentioned in cold wind) Regarding the autumn mention there, keep in mind, Cold wind is a tale, a fable referencing to things past. It's likely autumn has a different meaning for Caldari then us, regarding their lack of seasons(minimal axial tilt). Could be it refers to some other periodic (weather) event.
All in all, it seems that the Caldari prime Ecosystem is unstable, missing a variety of essential life, filled in by humans to keep it going.

Describing local flora & fauna for Caldari Prime won't be easy, as for most references that can be found, the planet's fairly barren, save for the equatorial regions who enjoy a temperate climate (with lack of seasons) & lots of Caldari roleplayers have strong feelings to anything that happens to Caldari Prime (this is for all prime lore planets).
Considering the planet was a barren inhospitable world prior to the terraforming, it's likely all life was imported from elsewhere. Note, most life is hence probably from Earth origin, but what suvrived the ecosystem collapse evolved to adapt to a much colder climate with thinner atmosphere

Providing a new home for refugees in the Aurora Arcology

Zenariae
#31 - 2015-01-15 11:37:17 UTC
Thanks for this Jandice, your comments are noted and very much appreciated.

Source clearly states the equatorial regions of Caldari Prime experience -15 to -3C year round, which is hardly temperate, yet in wiki it states the planet is given to temperate zones at the equator so I’m not really sure how to reconcile this difference. I also find it difficult to conceptualise how huge Kresh trees could evolve natively on a mostly barren tundra planet with little to no other lifeforms to sustain an ecology for the tree. I'm not trying to quibble or pick fault, I just want to avoid being caught in a minefield of possible errors and credibility/believability isses if I create some animals/plants for Roleplay purposes. To me the difference in descriptions between Source and wiki concerning temperate zones is a clear discrepancy.

This and your comments answer my question at least in that there is no work around for this. I'll leave it well enough alone. Moving on to other ideas.
Jandice Ymladris
Aurora Arcology
#32 - 2015-01-15 12:13:21 UTC
To reconcile the freezing temperatures with a temperate climate, it's important to remember they're averages. Further, the Caldari prime atmosphere is usually referred to thin, allowing large temperature-differences between day/night (thinner atmospheres have trouble trapping heat).
So a -3 to -15 average temp, yet a temperate region, it can be explained that the planet has a slow rotation on its axis (long days) allowing for a nice temperature on dayside (longer explosure means higher temperatures, but only to an upper limit, and it is mentioned that Caldari prime is at the edge of habitability, so I theorize it's day temperateure probably never gets high) but freezing cold at night. This can explain the temperate conditions, yet freezing averages.
Life can survive this by having adapted a night hibernal cycle or using deep burrows. Plant life could be restricted to needles or something that we don't have on earth (heavy wax small leafs?)

On the Kresh Tree, it could be an imported tree from earth, genetically engineered for better growth under cold conditions. Can't find mention of its size, but considering that Tundra trees are usually stunted in their growth, it could be that the reference huge kresh trees' is just compared to the ordinary tundra runts, making even a small tree a giant compared to it.
In all likelyhood, most life-forms imported would probably be genetically engineered to survive the initial cold conditions, in order to built up a more stable warm ecosystem later- obviously this warmer period never came to be, albeit the 'thicker' atmosphere helped in creating a more agreeable day temperature.

On liquid water for Caldari prime, despite freezing temperatures: some things might help: High salt content & strong ocean currents under the ice (as it's likely most of the north & south hemisphere is frozen on top) It's theorized Earth actually went through a period like this (Snowball Earth) in it's early history

Providing a new home for refugees in the Aurora Arcology

Vulxanis Viceroy
Offworld Trading Company
Khimi Harar
#33 - 2015-01-15 19:09:19 UTC
I love how this has gone into a very logical and thoughtful discussion xD Keep it up!

Also, just so you know, regarding "Source" (I'm meaning the in game descriptions) not all of them make sense. EG, the captial planet of Kor-Azor (where my character's palace is as well) is too big to sustain human life. The gravity and year/time of the cycles, it's just utter chicken scratch.

Wiki lore, imo, should probably trump in game stuff if they conflict.

Continue!

In Character: Only responds to "Lord Draconis"

Pronounced "Vulzanis"

Reddit: https://www.reddit.com/r/Eve/comments/4fanm8/eve_in_a_nutshell_and_how_to_crack_it/

Public channel: VXV EVE

Twitter: https://wiki.eveonline.com/en/wiki/Vulxanis_Viceroy

Jandice Ymladris
Aurora Arcology
#34 - 2015-01-15 21:50:06 UTC
Vulxanis Viceroy wrote:
I love how this has gone into a very logical and thoughtful discussion xD Keep it up!

Also, just so you know, regarding "Source" (I'm meaning the in game descriptions) not all of them make sense. EG, the captial planet of Kor-Azor (where my character's palace is as well) is too big to sustain human life. The gravity and year/time of the cycles, it's just utter chicken scratch.

Wiki lore, imo, should probably trump in game stuff if they conflict.

Continue!


The ingame planet info is quatch. Anyone with even a slight astronomic background would start twitching when he saw that data.
In short: ingame planetary details are not a good indicator for lore.

I would mainly use it as a guidance for Lore. In Kor-Azor example, don't take the planet info at face value, but as guidance, treat the data as indicating that Kor Azor Prime is a larger planet with higher then normal gravity.
For rotational periods, lets not go there... because there's alot more wrong then just rotational periods (temperate planets nearly kissing their star or in the frozen edge of the system etc)

Providing a new home for refugees in the Aurora Arcology

Vulxanis Viceroy
Offworld Trading Company
Khimi Harar
#35 - 2015-01-16 00:04:51 UTC
Jandice Ymladris wrote:
Vulxanis Viceroy wrote:
I love how this has gone into a very logical and thoughtful discussion xD Keep it up!

Also, just so you know, regarding "Source" (I'm meaning the in game descriptions) not all of them make sense. EG, the captial planet of Kor-Azor (where my character's palace is as well) is too big to sustain human life. The gravity and year/time of the cycles, it's just utter chicken scratch.

Wiki lore, imo, should probably trump in game stuff if they conflict.

Continue!


The ingame planet info is quatch. Anyone with even a slight astronomic background would start twitching when he saw that data.
In short: ingame planetary details are not a good indicator for lore.

I would mainly use it as a guidance for Lore. In Kor-Azor example, don't take the planet info at face value, but as guidance, treat the data as indicating that Kor Azor Prime is a larger planet with higher then normal gravity.
For rotational periods, lets not go there... because there's alot more wrong then just rotational periods (temperate planets nearly kissing their star or in the frozen edge of the system etc)


Lol my point exactly

In Character: Only responds to "Lord Draconis"

Pronounced "Vulzanis"

Reddit: https://www.reddit.com/r/Eve/comments/4fanm8/eve_in_a_nutshell_and_how_to_crack_it/

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Zenariae
#36 - 2015-01-16 00:44:04 UTC
The information I used is taken from Eve Source and the EVE wiki, not the in game planet info popups, which is why I noted the discrepancies as puzzling. My understanding of 'temperate' in terms of weather is that it is characterised by moderate/mild temperatures. Am I confusing definitions of geographical zones with climate?
Vulxanis Viceroy
Offworld Trading Company
Khimi Harar
#37 - 2015-01-16 01:18:04 UTC
Well I personally don't own that book, but I would say you're on the right track lol and Idk about the planet. It sounds right to me.

In Character: Only responds to "Lord Draconis"

Pronounced "Vulzanis"

Reddit: https://www.reddit.com/r/Eve/comments/4fanm8/eve_in_a_nutshell_and_how_to_crack_it/

Public channel: VXV EVE

Twitter: https://wiki.eveonline.com/en/wiki/Vulxanis_Viceroy

Zenariae
#38 - 2015-01-16 06:29:29 UTC
Vulxanis Viceroy wrote:
Well I personally don't own that book, but I would say you're on the right track lol and Idk about the planet. It sounds right to me.


Thanks for the vote of confidence, but I think Jandice is probably correct in advising to stay away from Caldari Prime to try this project and I'm not comfortable with what I see as differences in the two sources of lore about the same planet. Perhaps some unknown, non-descript planet to begin with?
Vulxanis Viceroy
Offworld Trading Company
Khimi Harar
#39 - 2015-02-15 22:30:51 UTC  |  Edited by: Vulxanis Viceroy
Zenariae wrote:
Thanks for the vote of confidence, but I think Jandice is probably correct in advising to stay away from Caldari Prime to try this project and I'm not comfortable with what I see as differences in the two sources of lore about the same planet. Perhaps some unknown, non-descript planet to begin with?


Not sure how accurate this is, but a visual representation of planet size comparison.

In Character: Only responds to "Lord Draconis"

Pronounced "Vulzanis"

Reddit: https://www.reddit.com/r/Eve/comments/4fanm8/eve_in_a_nutshell_and_how_to_crack_it/

Public channel: VXV EVE

Twitter: https://wiki.eveonline.com/en/wiki/Vulxanis_Viceroy

Ibrahim Tash-Murkon
Itsukame-Zainou Hyperspatial Inquiries Ltd.
Arataka Research Consortium
#40 - 2015-02-15 23:44:59 UTC
Vulxanis Viceroy wrote:
Zenariae wrote:
Thanks for the vote of confidence, but I think Jandice is probably correct in advising to stay away from Caldari Prime to try this project and I'm not comfortable with what I see as differences in the two sources of lore about the same planet. Perhaps some unknown, non-descript planet to begin with?


Not sure how accurate this is, but a visual representation of planet size comparison.


Those are accurate based on the ingame planet information but not typically considered accurate lore-wise as the ingame descriptions seem somewhat random and would create conditions rendering human habitation impossible. You can tell from the image that Caldari Prime and Gallente Prime would have lethally high gravity while Matar and Amarr Prime probably couldn't hold an atmosphere more than a hundredth or a tenth that of Earth. Barring exotic planetary compositions the conditions are going to be sufficiently hostile that nobody is going to survive long enough to make a sandwich let alone a spaceship.

It's a neat picture but the game information it draws upon isn't helpful.

"I give you the destiny of Faith, and you will bring its message to every planet of every star in the heavens: Go forth, conquer in my Name, and reclaim that which I have given." - Book of Reclaiming 22:13

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