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EVE lore: Ecology and the Animals of New Eden

Author
Vulxanis Viceroy
Offworld Trading Company
Khimi Harar
#1 - 2014-11-18 23:50:33 UTC
I've been curious about this for a while now, and have been very hesitant to incorporate it into my roleplay.

Is it safe to assume most of the animals that are in New Eden came from earth?

Is it a big deal if we make up our own animals? What about the life on terrestrials in lowsec? Nullsec? Wormhole space?

Are there animals similar to dragons in New Eden? What are the biggest animals? Rarest? Most beautiful? Kinds that poachers prefer? Feline, canine, bovine, etc? What about the plant life?

Just how far can we push the envelope?

In Character: Only responds to "Lord Draconis"

Pronounced "Vulzanis"

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Samira Kernher
Cail Avetatu
#2 - 2014-11-19 00:23:09 UTC  |  Edited by: Samira Kernher
I doubt there are dragons. And any dragon-like creature would need to keep in mind the limitations of planetary environment: It most likely wouldn't be able to fly, and if very large the atmosphere and ecosystem would need to be one that would support that kind of creature. IE a planet at dinosaurian levels of life.

Not all animals in New Eden came from Earth, but many are. Furriers, fedos, and slaver hounds are all examples of alien animals. An animal we know that was not brought over from Earth are wolves: Wolves are considered a mythical creature in lore, probably in the same manner as direwolves are seen today, according to the Wolf frigate description. Wild dogs probably exist though, since domesticated dogs were probably brought over and went feral during the dark ages on many worlds. The wolf would probably be hypothesized as the pre-historic (by New Eden history) progenitor of wild dogs. Likewise cats and wild cats would probably exist, and pigs and wild pigs.

Cows and sheep probably exist, due to the livestock items depicting cows and sheep.
Vulxanis Viceroy
Offworld Trading Company
Khimi Harar
#3 - 2014-11-19 01:05:44 UTC
Samira Kernher wrote:
I doubt there are dragons. And any dragon-like creature would need to keep in mind the limitations of planetary environment: It most likely wouldn't be able to fly, and if very large the atmosphere and ecosystem would need to be one that would support that kind of creature. IE a planet at dinosaurian levels of life.

Not all animals in New Eden came from Earth, but many are. Furriers, fedos, and slaver hounds are all examples of alien animals. An animal we know that was not brought over from Earth are wolves: Wolves are considered a mythical creature in lore, probably in the same manner as direwolves are seen today, according to the Wolf frigate description. Wild dogs probably exist though, since domesticated dogs were probably brought over and went feral during the dark ages on many worlds. The wolf would probably be hypothesized as the pre-historic (by New Eden history) progenitor of wild dogs. Likewise cats and wild cats would probably exist, and pigs and wild pigs.

Cows and sheep probably exist, due to the livestock items depicting cows and sheep.



Lol well maybe not dragons, but dinosaurs are likely possible, yea. Especially underwater.

I hadn't seen that part about wolves. I wonder if there is some other kind of wild-like hounds native to some planets.

What animals are the most likely to be "extinct" as far as New Eden is concerned? What animals are most likely to have been brought over? Aside from the Livestock.
Did the Amarr use horses?
What about the minmatar empire?
Caldari/Gallente homeworlds?
What would have been the pack animals?
Animals that cultures centered around?
Were cows viewed in the same way they are as in Ancient Earth cultures?

In Character: Only responds to "Lord Draconis"

Pronounced "Vulzanis"

Reddit: https://www.reddit.com/r/Eve/comments/4fanm8/eve_in_a_nutshell_and_how_to_crack_it/

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Lunarisse Aspenstar
Societas Imperialis Sceptri Coronaeque
Khimi Harar
#4 - 2014-11-19 01:15:45 UTC  |  Edited by: Lunarisse Aspenstar
Vulxanis Viceroy wrote:
Samira Kernher wrote:
I doubt there are dragons. And any dragon-like creature would need to keep in mind the limitations of planetary environment: It most likely wouldn't be able to fly, and if very large the atmosphere and ecosystem would need to be one that would support that kind of creature. IE a planet at dinosaurian levels of life.

Not all animals in New Eden came from Earth, but many are. Furriers, fedos, and slaver hounds are all examples of alien animals. An animal we know that was not brought over from Earth are wolves: Wolves are considered a mythical creature in lore, probably in the same manner as direwolves are seen today, according to the Wolf frigate description. Wild dogs probably exist though, since domesticated dogs were probably brought over and went feral during the dark ages on many worlds. The wolf would probably be hypothesized as the pre-historic (by New Eden history) progenitor of wild dogs. Likewise cats and wild cats would probably exist, and pigs and wild pigs.

Cows and sheep probably exist, due to the livestock items depicting cows and sheep.



Lol well maybe not dragons, but dinosaurs are likely possible, yea. Especially underwater.

I hadn't seen that part about wolves. I wonder if there is some other kind of wild-like hounds native to some planets.

What animals are the most likely to be "extinct" as far as New Eden is concerned? What animals are most likely to have been brought over? Aside from the Livestock.
Did the Amarr use horses?
What about the minmatar empire?
Caldari/Gallente homeworlds?
What would have been the pack animals?
Animals that cultures centered around?
Were cows viewed in the same way they are as in Ancient Earth cultures?


I think there's a lot of room for manuever within scientific reason. Certainly practical animals (livestock/pets) and perhaps pests probably came from earth even if mutated evolved by now

here's the eve wiki on this point:
https://wiki.eveonline.com/en/wiki/Flora_and_fauna_(NPCs)
Vulxanis Viceroy
Offworld Trading Company
Khimi Harar
#5 - 2014-11-19 02:28:13 UTC  |  Edited by: Vulxanis Viceroy
Lunarisse Aspenstar wrote:


I think there's a lot of room for manuever within scientific reason. Certainly practical animals (livestock/pets) and perhaps pests probably came from earth even if mutated evolved by now

here's the eve wiki on this point:
https://wiki.eveonline.com/en/wiki/Flora_and_fauna_(NPCs)


I've actually seen that wiki, and it seemed too short for me. I was wondering if there was more lol

In Character: Only responds to "Lord Draconis"

Pronounced "Vulzanis"

Reddit: https://www.reddit.com/r/Eve/comments/4fanm8/eve_in_a_nutshell_and_how_to_crack_it/

Public channel: VXV EVE

Twitter: https://wiki.eveonline.com/en/wiki/Vulxanis_Viceroy

Jandice Ymladris
Aurora Arcology
#6 - 2014-11-19 11:55:01 UTC  |  Edited by: Jandice Ymladris
There is probably alot more that isn't mentioned on the list.

I do find it odd that Luminaire skippers didn't make it on the list. They're frogs (or frog-like creatures) that are (now?) native to Gallente Prime. They're indigo-colored and weight around 2 kg, so either they evolved form an existing frog the original settlers brought over, or it's a local creature that looks very much like a frog.
Link to the item: Luminaire skipper

Also, Turkeys did make it into New Eden, as per this link: Cold Turkey (bonus feature, it seems the phrase going 'Cold turkey' on addictions is a term only know to pirates somehow)

With what has been posted by others above, I believe it's safe to assume all lifestock animals did make it in Eve, from horses to pigs, sheep, cows, chickens etc.
As to alien life, it's out there, but it's probably not always easy to know when something was either originally from earth, or just an alien species that looked very similar to it's earth counterparts (See luminaire skippers) Also possible, alien life getting imported from beyond the eve gate before the collapse, after all the galaxy was largely colonized before finding the Eve gate, making things even more complicated.

Some more time to dig might see more animals unearthed, but I guess you got alot of leeway with animals.

Providing a new home for refugees in the Aurora Arcology

Qvar Dar'Zanar
Ministry of War
Amarr Empire
#7 - 2014-11-19 18:18:36 UTC
I wonder if the seas big creatures have been brought over to EVE, seing how ORE knows about rorquals, orcas, etc.
Vulxanis Viceroy
Offworld Trading Company
Khimi Harar
#8 - 2014-11-19 19:18:38 UTC
Jandice Ymladris wrote:
There is probably alot more that isn't mentioned on the list.

I do find it odd that Luminaire skippers didn't make it on the list. They're frogs (or frog-like creatures) that are (now?) native to Gallente Prime. They're indigo-colored and weight around 2 kg, so either they evolved form an existing frog the original settlers brought over, or it's a local creature that looks very much like a frog.
Link to the item: Luminaire skipper

Also, Turkeys did make it into New Eden, as per this link: Cold Turkey (bonus feature, it seems the phrase going 'Cold turkey' on addictions is a term only know to pirates somehow)

With what has been posted by others above, I believe it's safe to assume all lifestock animals did make it in Eve, from horses to pigs, sheep, cows, chickens etc.
As to aline life, it's out there, but it's probably not always to know when something was either originally from earth, or just a an alien species that looked very similar to it's earth counterparts (See luminaire skippers) Also possible, alien life getting imported from beyond the eve gate before the collapse, after all the galaxy was largely colonized before finding the Eve gate, making things even more complicated.

Some more time to dig might see more animals unearthed, but I guess you got alot of leeway with animals.


I guess what I'm asking is "Would it be against the PF if we started making up animals? Or at least can we get CCP to start making more for the planetside lore?"

In Character: Only responds to "Lord Draconis"

Pronounced "Vulzanis"

Reddit: https://www.reddit.com/r/Eve/comments/4fanm8/eve_in_a_nutshell_and_how_to_crack_it/

Public channel: VXV EVE

Twitter: https://wiki.eveonline.com/en/wiki/Vulxanis_Viceroy

Samira Kernher
Cail Avetatu
#9 - 2014-11-19 21:19:42 UTC
People have made up animals.

Some of these have been acknowledged by dev actors. For example, Mikramurkan snow leopard-like things called skadis, made up by Ava and which Citizen Ahvar (Nation dev actor) later talked about experimenting with.
Telegram Sam
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#10 - 2014-11-21 02:30:29 UTC
I asked the same question a while back, and the results were inclusive, but I think worth reading. Here's the short thread.

We do know that many ships are named after Terran animals (Badger, Hawk, Jaguar, etc.) But, we also know that the description for the Wolf ship says it's named for "a mythical animal." I think the issue goes back to terraforming. We know that the initial New Eden settlers terraformed planets to make them both habitable and able to support more than just Mars Lander-like life. Ecosystems were created, and they were able to sustain humans at sustenance level after the EVE Gate closed. So they had enough edible flora and fauna to support human life in a Dark Ages environment.

We also know that New Eden has native lifeforms, such as fedos and long-limbs. The must be carbon-based and breathe oxygen, because they can either survive in human environments, or are digestible. So, it seems that at least some planets in New Eden were hospitable to introduction of Terran-type life.

And, the lore points toward the early days of moving through the EVE Gate being about exploration and settling. The initial settlers had a supply chain back to Earth, and once that closed, they were in deep trouble. So, if they were living on New Eden planets, and ff they were terraforming planets to make them habitable, they must have been importing Terran DNA for the terraforming. Otherwise, they would be doing advanced DNA engineeringterraforming specific to New Eden (inside New Eden or back in the pipeline through the Gate?)

Were they advanced enough to invent new DNA to cover every aspect of a terraformed ecosytem, from virus to plant up to animal? Or did they import successful organisms from Earth as seeds or patterns? From the names of ships, it seems like they brought at least the basic hawk, badger, rattlesnake, etc. patterns with them. Maybe the creature is not exactly a hawk as we'd know it in New Eden, but it has a similar shape and lives in a similar ecological niche.

[Here's a list of ships with references to Terran animals or Terran mythological gods and entities. Many ships named after Earth animals and rather obscure mythological beings. If you name a ship after it, it's pretty much a part of the lore, no?]
Vulxanis Viceroy
Offworld Trading Company
Khimi Harar
#11 - 2014-11-21 16:54:31 UTC
Samira Kernher wrote:
People have made up animals.

Some of these have been acknowledged by dev actors. For example, Mikramurkan snow leopard-like things called skadis, made up by Ava and which Citizen Ahvar (Nation dev actor) later talked about experimenting with.


So I'm guessing if it's biologically possible, you will not likely get anyone's feathers ruffled? How did they get them acknowledged by dev actors?

Telegram Sam wrote:
I asked the same question a while back, and the results were inclusive, but I think worth reading. Here's the short thread.

We do know that many ships are named after Terran animals (Badger, Hawk, Jaguar, etc.) But, we also know that the description for the Wolf ship says it's named for "a mythical animal." I think the issue goes back to terraforming. We know that the initial New Eden settlers terraformed planets to make them both habitable and able to support more than just Mars Lander-like life. Ecosystems were created, and they were able to sustain humans at sustenance level after the EVE Gate closed. So they had enough edible flora and fauna to support human life in a Dark Ages environment.

We also know that New Eden has native lifeforms, such as fedos and long-limbs. The must be carbon-based and breathe oxygen, because they can either survive in human environments, or are digestible. So, it seems that at least some planets in New Eden were hospitable to introduction of Terran-type life.

And, the lore points toward the early days of moving through the EVE Gate being about exploration and settling. The initial settlers had a supply chain back to Earth, and once that closed, they were in deep trouble. So, if they were living on New Eden planets, and ff they were terraforming planets to make them habitable, they must have been importing Terran DNA for the terraforming. Otherwise, they would be doing advanced DNA engineeringterraforming specific to New Eden (inside New Eden or back in the pipeline through the Gate?)

Were they advanced enough to invent new DNA to cover every aspect of a terraformed ecosytem, from virus to plant up to animal? Or did they import successful organisms from Earth as seeds or patterns? From the names of ships, it seems like they brought at least the basic hawk, badger, rattlesnake, etc. patterns with them. Maybe the creature is not exactly a hawk as we'd know it in New Eden, but it has a similar shape and lives in a similar ecological niche.

[Here's a list of ships with references to Terran animals or Terran mythological gods and entities. Many ships named after Earth animals and rather obscure mythological beings. If you name a ship after it, it's pretty much a part of the lore, no?]


Those are some interesting points. I would assume you're correct. Also thanks for the list!

In Character: Only responds to "Lord Draconis"

Pronounced "Vulzanis"

Reddit: https://www.reddit.com/r/Eve/comments/4fanm8/eve_in_a_nutshell_and_how_to_crack_it/

Public channel: VXV EVE

Twitter: https://wiki.eveonline.com/en/wiki/Vulxanis_Viceroy

Soren Tyrhanos
PIE Inc.
Khimi Harar
#12 - 2014-11-25 01:05:23 UTC
According to my sources (Dust 514 alt) animals unfortunately do not exist. No confirmed sightings of indigenous wildlife on any planet in New Eden in well over 18 months......
Vulxanis Viceroy
Offworld Trading Company
Khimi Harar
#13 - 2014-11-25 08:57:01 UTC
Soren Tyrhanos wrote:
According to my sources (Dust 514 alt) animals unfortunately do not exist. No confirmed sightings of indigenous wildlife on any planet in New Eden in well over 18 months......


As one of the open beta vets, I know this. However, I'm not really sure how "lore-friendly" the landscapes are. Because the Dust landscapes don't always match up with the planet type (eg terrestrials will have dust battlegrounds where there are lore mountains and... um... AIR! and dust looks like you have to wear a space suit to breathe) and it's like literally every planet in new eden has died.

How the Human race can continue if this were the case, however, is beyond anything even "hand waiving" can achieve.

In Character: Only responds to "Lord Draconis"

Pronounced "Vulzanis"

Reddit: https://www.reddit.com/r/Eve/comments/4fanm8/eve_in_a_nutshell_and_how_to_crack_it/

Public channel: VXV EVE

Twitter: https://wiki.eveonline.com/en/wiki/Vulxanis_Viceroy

Samira Kernher
Cail Avetatu
#14 - 2014-11-25 09:13:34 UTC
Vulxanis Viceroy wrote:
Samira Kernher wrote:
People have made up animals.

Some of these have been acknowledged by dev actors. For example, Mikramurkan snow leopard-like things called skadis, made up by Ava and which Citizen Ahvar (Nation dev actor) later talked about experimenting with.


So I'm guessing if it's biologically possible, you will not likely get anyone's feathers ruffled? How did they get them acknowledged by dev actors?


There's no kind of procedure to "get acknowledged". Devs use or get inspired by player things if and when they feel like it.

And yes, like many things in RP, if it's logically possible no one will be bothered in most cases.
Vulxanis Viceroy
Offworld Trading Company
Khimi Harar
#15 - 2014-11-25 21:22:26 UTC
Samira Kernher wrote:
Vulxanis Viceroy wrote:
Samira Kernher wrote:
People have made up animals.

Some of these have been acknowledged by dev actors. For example, Mikramurkan snow leopard-like things called skadis, made up by Ava and which Citizen Ahvar (Nation dev actor) later talked about experimenting with.


So I'm guessing if it's biologically possible, you will not likely get anyone's feathers ruffled? How did they get them acknowledged by dev actors?


There's no kind of procedure to "get acknowledged". Devs use or get inspired by player things if and when they feel like it.

And yes, like many things in RP, if it's logically possible no one will be bothered in most cases.


Makes sense. I was just apprehensive for some reason about possibly getting a Dev mad at me or disagreeing with me. Plus, I would very likely jump straight into designing a whole bunch of animals, so I just wanted to clarify.

Another question: How logical are inter-special combinations in the name of "science"? I've heard of people talking about having exotic things happen (monkeys with sebiestor brains?), and I'm also wondering how far we would likely be able to take this, coming up with indigenous alien animals to planets (another reason I was apprehensive. I say it's native to this planet, then CCP disagrees that it even exists and whatnot, etc).

In Character: Only responds to "Lord Draconis"

Pronounced "Vulzanis"

Reddit: https://www.reddit.com/r/Eve/comments/4fanm8/eve_in_a_nutshell_and_how_to_crack_it/

Public channel: VXV EVE

Twitter: https://wiki.eveonline.com/en/wiki/Vulxanis_Viceroy

Jandice Ymladris
Aurora Arcology
#16 - 2014-11-25 23:05:27 UTC
Vulxanis Viceroy wrote:


Makes sense. I was just apprehensive for some reason about possibly getting a Dev mad at me or disagreeing with me. Plus, I would very likely jump straight into designing a whole bunch of animals, so I just wanted to clarify.

Another question: How logical are inter-special combinations in the name of "science"? I've heard of people talking about having exotic things happen (monkeys with sebiestor brains?), and I'm also wondering how far we would likely be able to take this, coming up with indigenous alien animals to planets (another reason I was apprehensive. I say it's native to this planet, then CCP disagrees that it even exists and whatnot, etc).


Generally, stay away from the mad scientist stuff if you enjoy being taken seriously (unless you have a very good explanation for it). Crazy/silly things are a fast lane to losing credibility. You can use the Backstage OOC forum to have a discussion up about the life-forms you create, to check if people have any suggestions around them.

Overall, as long as you stay away from public lore planets (like Amarr, Caldari etc etc) you tend to have alot of freedom in designing life-forms. Just remember, keep it believable. CCP/Devs don't interfere with players making up their own lifeforms in RP, as the Lore community tends to be fairly self-correcting.

Providing a new home for refugees in the Aurora Arcology

Bagrat Skalski
Koinuun Kotei
#17 - 2014-11-26 16:40:51 UTC  |  Edited by: Bagrat Skalski
Jandice Ymladris wrote:

alot of freedom in designing life-forms. Just remember, keep it believable.


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Convergent_evolution

Life finds the way.
If your creature lives mainly on ground, give it some legs or snake motion, if it flies, give it some wings, if it swims, give it some fins. Rest is your imagination, but remember to give it digestive system, it has to metabolise, and some senses, so it can aquire information.

It has to do something to live: metabolise, multiplicate, spread or move, it has to defend itself or hunt. When you will say that it can do everything that, it can live, and probably it lives or lived somewhere in the universe.
Vulxanis Viceroy
Offworld Trading Company
Khimi Harar
#18 - 2014-11-26 22:19:08 UTC
Bagrat Skalski wrote:
Jandice Ymladris wrote:

alot of freedom in designing life-forms. Just remember, keep it believable.


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Convergent_evolution

Life finds the way.
If your creature lives mainly on ground, give it some legs or snake motion, if it flies, give it some wings, if it swims, give it some fins. Rest is your imagination, but remember to give it digestive system, it has to metabolise, and some senses, so it can aquire information.

It has to do something to live: metabolise, multiplicate, spread or move, it has to defend itself or hunt. When you will say that it can do everything that, it can live, and probably it lives or lived somewhere in the universe.


Let's try and keep this away from getting into evolution vs creationism and bla bla bla. But yes, I was aware of how physiology pertains to environment :P I was just wondering how bizarre we can logically go, EG we don't have Aliens in EVE for a reason.

In Character: Only responds to "Lord Draconis"

Pronounced "Vulzanis"

Reddit: https://www.reddit.com/r/Eve/comments/4fanm8/eve_in_a_nutshell_and_how_to_crack_it/

Public channel: VXV EVE

Twitter: https://wiki.eveonline.com/en/wiki/Vulxanis_Viceroy

Zenariae
#19 - 2014-11-27 04:12:31 UTC
New Eden creatures are already quite bizarre both visually and in their narrative descriptions. For some examples see the following chronicle links:

Furrier

Hanging Long Limb

Fedo

Slaver

In consideration they're no stranger than an Elephant, Platypus or Axolotl to name a few real life creatures. Life in New Eden is most likely extremely diverse but its detailed description is vastly incomplete and wouldn’t be practical for the developers in the context of a video game. The laws of physics in describing an organism and believability would be the main limitations to think about.
Robur Maximus
Sonnenlegion
Shadow Cartel
#20 - 2014-12-05 15:42:58 UTC  |  Edited by: Robur Maximus
Thanks for the links, very cool to read about. Im a biologist and forester myself, would love to delve further into the fauna/flora of the Eve universe :). Im also Icelandic, maybe I should knock on CCP´s door
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