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Crime & Punishment

 
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Stackable GCC
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Renegade Heart
Doomheim
#41 - 2014-11-19 17:10:10 UTC
Fenix Neutrino wrote:
If you are so eager to PvP just move to null or something.


How about you make me?
Tengu Grib
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#42 - 2014-11-19 21:26:19 UTC  |  Edited by: Tengu Grib
Fenix Neutrino wrote:

It's not fair that it pays that much to be a criminal and gank, die, repeat infinite since repeated criminal activity doesn't have any form of impact on the criminal player.

You must be high, I've never made money by ganking. Even on the rare occasion that a gank makes more than it costs, that isk goes right into paying for the next gank that will not pay a dime.

Ganking freighters is a bit of a different story, but only the idiocy of the pilots makes ganking freighters financially justifiable.

Your idea would not affect those guys really, so freighters would still be dying. Sure miners wouldn't be dying as much, but those deaths stimulate the economy and everyone benefits from that.

EDIT: After reading the rest of this thread I see you are in fact not a blathering idiot and are instead a rational and reasonable human being. I dislike your suggestion and do not think it would do anything but harm to Eve.

Rabble Rabble Rabble

Praise James, Supreme Protector of High Sec.
Agondray
Avenger Mercenaries
VOID Intergalactic Forces
#43 - 2014-11-19 21:48:35 UTC
i would agree with stackable GCC but ccp wont allow it. i believe it was in csm 8 when they commented that they wanted to cause as much chaos as they can and in the process intervened and created a group of gankers

"Sarcasm is the Recourse of a weak mind." -Dr. Smith
Michael Ignis Archangel
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#44 - 2014-11-19 22:01:21 UTC
The more I think about this, the devil is actually in the details.

What if, for instance, GCC was multiplicative like jump fatigue, but the 'initial' cooldown was, say, 15 seconds instead of the current 15 minutes of docking, waiting, perhaps contacting your victim to present them with a small survey of their experience.

So one could, in theory, go on a murderous ganking rampage and end up with a gigantic, exponential, GCC timer, then simply log off, bloodthirst momentarily slaked.

It's almost certainly not what the OP intended, but could be more interesting than the current steady diet of max 4 kills/hr regardless of gameplay choices. Never let it be said that I'm unwilling to admit I bypassed an idea with potential.
Omar Alharazaad
New Eden Tech Support
#45 - 2014-11-20 04:15:57 UTC
You lost me at 'defenseless ships'.
Last I knew the best defense any ship had wasn't in it's modules so much as a wily pilot at the helm.
Flying a non-combat oriented vessel automatically puts a pilot in the role of 'prey'. How they operate said ship determines what kind of prey they are. Being an easy or hard target is entirely up to them, but one of those choices isn't 'easymode'.
For some reason this offends some of the more gentle-hearted members of the herd.

Come hell or high water, this sick world will know I was here.
Sabriz Adoudel
Move along there is nothing here
#46 - 2014-11-20 04:29:06 UTC
Omar Alharazaad wrote:
You lost me at 'defenseless ships'.
Last I knew the best defense any ship had wasn't in it's modules so much as a wily pilot at the helm.
Flying a non-combat oriented vessel automatically puts a pilot in the role of 'prey'. How they operate said ship determines what kind of prey they are. Being an easy or hard target is entirely up to them, but one of those choices isn't 'easymode'.
For some reason this offends some of the more gentle-hearted members of the herd.


This. A dilligent miner in a Hulk that pays attention to all sources of intel available to them through the client should never be ganked in empire space, unless caught on a gate or by a very lucky hunter.

I support the New Order and CODE. alliance. www.minerbumping.com
Meilandra Vanderganken
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#47 - 2014-11-20 13:05:35 UTC
Tengu Grib wrote:
Fenix Neutrino wrote:

It's not fair that it pays that much to be a criminal and gank, die, repeat infinite since repeated criminal activity doesn't have any form of impact on the criminal player.

You must be high, I've never made money by ganking. Even on the rare occasion that a gank makes more than it costs, that isk goes right into paying for the next gank that will not pay a dime.

Ganking freighters is a bit of a different story, but only the idiocy of the pilots makes ganking freighters financially justifiable.

On average I guess I break even when ganking miners. That's mostly due to the fact that I will use cheap meta catas whenever possible, even if that means I might lack the dps to squish the pod after the barge pops and I try to recover as much as I can from my CONCORDed boats and try to scoop up loot. Should I start using more T2 catalysts (which is prolly where I'm headed), it can become quite the ISK sink for your personal wallet.

Also, the carebear community will always ***** and moan about ISK. If we make money of off ganks: "OMG, THEY MAKEZ MONIEZ OF GANKS IN HI SEC NO FAIR!1!! NERF!!!". If we gank an empty freighter: "OMG NAO THEY DON"T EVEN GANK FOR PROFITZ ANYMOAR BUT FOR LULZ NO FAIR!1!! NERF!!!".

The tragedy of threads like this being: even if we implemented every idea from the OP, there would still be ganking (just less) and there would still be people like the OP that would find the mechanics unfair asking for "One More Nerf". Now it's "he can gank 10 ships a day, why can you be a repeat offender in HISEC?!?!!", then it would be:"he can gank 10 ships a week, why can you be a repeat offender in HISEC?!?!?!". This will continue until every form of non consensual PVP is banned from highsec, at which point they will prolly switch to whining about consensual PVP "cuz it's easy to make a mistake accepting a duel/wardec." or "not a fair fight, noob vs veteran, we should all have the same skillz and equipment in PVP". After they managed to get consensual PVP destroyed too they will be asking for private instances for their mining and other PvE activities.... Roll
Beers Veldspar
Doomheim
#48 - 2014-11-20 13:58:50 UTC
Agree with OP...should be much harsher consequences for repeat criminals. Instead of 15 minutes, how about 15 months for -10s ?

Omniscient Oracle of New Eden, Incursion Hero, 6 months GCC timer advocate, Leader of bumping is bullying community, Ivy League space-lawyer, future permanent CSM member, the next level of human evolution, the epitome of modesty - Veers Belvar™
admiral root
Red Galaxy
#49 - 2014-11-20 14:52:01 UTC
Beers Veldspar wrote:
Agree with OP...should be much harsher consequences for repeat criminals. Instead of 15 minutes, how about 15 months for -10s ?


How about you provide additional consequences yourself?

No, your rights end in optimal+2*falloff
Mike Adoulin
Happys Happy Hamster Hunting Club
#50 - 2014-11-20 15:18:15 UTC
Cetaphil Thrace wrote:
It is unbalanced game play. I do not think it is fair that if i pop a miner in .5 system, i cant warp out. I am stuck until concord gets there 20 seconds later and pops me. Does that seem fair? If they want it realistic, then i should be able to run from them like the Duke Boys :)


Back in the day , you could.

And it was glorious.

Everything in EVE is a trap.

And if it isn't, it's your job to make it a trap...:)

You want to know what immorality in EVE Online looks like? Look no further than Ripard "Jester" Teg.

Chribba is the Chuck Norris of EVE.
Agondray
Avenger Mercenaries
VOID Intergalactic Forces
#51 - 2014-11-20 15:43:53 UTC
Sabriz Adoudel wrote:
Omar Alharazaad wrote:
You lost me at 'defenseless ships'.
Last I knew the best defense any ship had wasn't in it's modules so much as a wily pilot at the helm.
Flying a non-combat oriented vessel automatically puts a pilot in the role of 'prey'. How they operate said ship determines what kind of prey they are. Being an easy or hard target is entirely up to them, but one of those choices isn't 'easymode'.
For some reason this offends some of the more gentle-hearted members of the herd.


This. A dilligent miner in a Hulk that pays attention to all sources of intel available to them through the client should never be ganked in empire space, unless caught on a gate or by a very lucky hunter.



not true, even being dilligent
1 not all gankers have a negative status
2 it doesnt have to be a noob ship to be a warp in, another barge pilot could be used as a warp in

"Sarcasm is the Recourse of a weak mind." -Dr. Smith
admiral root
Red Galaxy
#52 - 2014-11-20 16:07:44 UTC
Agondray wrote:
not true, even being dilligent
1 not all gankers have a negative status
2 it doesnt have to be a noob ship to be a warp in, another barge pilot could be used as a warp in


Unless they're a first-time ganker, they have a killboard history which should give you clues. If you suspect a barge pilot may be a warp in for gankers, kill them or move well away from them.

No, your rights end in optimal+2*falloff
Omar Alharazaad
New Eden Tech Support
#53 - 2014-11-20 16:13:45 UTC
Correct on both points one and two.
When I mined I assumed ANY ship dropping on grid was NOT my friend unless they were set to blue by me. When they did so, I went somewhere else. The assumption should always be that you are not safe, and you should be acting accordingly in order to preserve your own existence while reaping what profit you can.
Your points, however, do not render the diligence argument invalid so much as emphasize it's importance.

Come hell or high water, this sick world will know I was here.
Azov Rassau
Iron Destiny
#54 - 2014-11-20 16:23:21 UTC
Cetaphil Thrace wrote:
It is unbalanced game play. I do not think it is fair that if i pop a miner in .5 system, i cant warp out. I am stuck until concord gets there 20 seconds later and pops me. Does that seem fair? If they want it realistic, then i should be able to run from them like the Duke Boys :)

Agreed. I support this idea of removing CONCORD's instant warp-disruption because currently, it's nonsense. In 0.5 systems for example, they're like 20 seconds late, but still they magically scramble criminals ship instantly. How is that possible? (and ironically, the notification still says "-PlayerName- criminals are not welcome here. Leave now or be destroyed". How can they "leave" with that instant and divine warp scramble anyway? Lol.)

Such nerf will have positive effects: 1) The ganker, upon succesfully killing the retriever, will have a chance to warp away and then come back to gank another (isn't it what they called "Boomerang ganking"?) It's more fun, exciting and challenging for the ganker.

2) ECM white knights will add Warp Disruptors to their fitting so that they can point the ganker (forcing him to wait for the CONCORD arrival) while also permajamming him (which is great fun Big smile). In other words, CONCORD's current instant and nonsense warp disruption will be replaced by real player interaction (a player's warp disruption). This is more fun for the antiganker too.
I still remember the fun I had with my ECM Skiff at the ice belts of Piekura, where I used point and permajam almost any Catalyst that attempted to gank a nearby miner. That is the result of what could be called the true spirit of EVE: PvP, real player interaction and fun. not God-like NPC Police.

Be the change you want to see in Highsec.

Anti-Ganking Fun: www.gankerjamming.com
Meilandra Vanderganken
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#55 - 2014-11-20 16:26:56 UTC
Agondray wrote:



not true, even being dilligent
1 not all gankers have a negative status
2 it doesnt have to be a noob ship to be a warp in, another barge pilot could be used as a warp in


That's right, you should be suspicious of anyone, that's part of the 'being dilligent'. Hint: if someone is hugging your ship, chances are they are providing a warp in.

Back in my mining days I was quite paranoid, I basicly checked on everyone coming through the belt I was mining in. If I didn't trust things, I'd dock up or at the very least moved my ship. Hell, I was paranoid about warp-ins b4 I even knew the mechanic existed. Lol I was rewarded by never being succesfuly ganked for my paranoia.
Ima Wreckyou
The Conference Elite
The Conference
#56 - 2014-11-20 17:52:36 UTC
This whole thread could have been avoided if the OP had only purchased a mining permit. It's only 10mil ISK per year OP, I don't really see the problem you have.

Evil RatKid
Sabriz Adoudel
Move along there is nothing here
#57 - 2014-11-20 20:58:08 UTC
Omar Alharazaad wrote:
Correct on both points one and two.
When I mined I assumed ANY ship dropping on grid was NOT my friend unless they were set to blue by me. When they did so, I went somewhere else. The assumption should always be that you are not safe, and you should be acting accordingly in order to preserve your own existence while reaping what profit you can.
Your points, however, do not render the diligence argument invalid so much as emphasize it's importance.



This is exactly true.

And even if someone cloaky is used as a warpin - a dilligent miner will be pre-aligned to something, will see 2 or more gank ships on D-scan, and will get the hell out.

It's not hard. And the only thing that can gank a person with that level of dilligence is a sizable number of ships that can warp cloaked - which is not ISK efficient or even close unless you are mining in an officer fit ship.

Safety is yours for the taking already, but you have to actually take it.

I support the New Order and CODE. alliance. www.minerbumping.com
Agondray
Avenger Mercenaries
VOID Intergalactic Forces
#58 - 2014-11-20 21:54:13 UTC
Sabriz Adoudel wrote:
Omar Alharazaad wrote:
Correct on both points one and two.
When I mined I assumed ANY ship dropping on grid was NOT my friend unless they were set to blue by me. When they did so, I went somewhere else. The assumption should always be that you are not safe, and you should be acting accordingly in order to preserve your own existence while reaping what profit you can.
Your points, however, do not render the diligence argument invalid so much as emphasize it's importance.



This is exactly true.

And even if someone cloaky is used as a warpin - a dilligent miner will be pre-aligned to something, will see 2 or more gank ships on D-scan, and will get the hell out.

It's not hard. And the only thing that can gank a person with that level of dilligence is a sizable number of ships that can warp cloaked - which is not ISK efficient or even close unless you are mining in an officer fit ship.

Safety is yours for the taking already, but you have to actually take it.



even being aligned isnt enough as it takes time to spool up, you have to have 2 spots you pace back and forth so you dont go to far from what you are mining.

and if you want to warp our every little ship on your dscan then you will also never accomplish anything

just like freighter pilots, even the ones not on AP get ganked as the ships are far to slow and even with a tank they die, but most dont have a tank, nor does ccp falcons idiotic rant on having guns nor logi work as i watched a freighter with a logi fleet get bumped and die between 2 fleet attacks

"Sarcasm is the Recourse of a weak mind." -Dr. Smith
John E Normus
New Order Logistics
CODE.
#59 - 2014-11-20 21:59:18 UTC
ONE MORE NERF, ONE MORE NERF, ONE MORE NERF!

Between Ignorance and Wisdom
Sabriz Adoudel
Move along there is nothing here
#60 - 2014-11-20 22:16:23 UTC
Agondray wrote:
Sabriz Adoudel wrote:
Omar Alharazaad wrote:
Correct on both points one and two.
When I mined I assumed ANY ship dropping on grid was NOT my friend unless they were set to blue by me. When they did so, I went somewhere else. The assumption should always be that you are not safe, and you should be acting accordingly in order to preserve your own existence while reaping what profit you can.
Your points, however, do not render the diligence argument invalid so much as emphasize it's importance.



This is exactly true.

And even if someone cloaky is used as a warpin - a dilligent miner will be pre-aligned to something, will see 2 or more gank ships on D-scan, and will get the hell out.

It's not hard. And the only thing that can gank a person with that level of dilligence is a sizable number of ships that can warp cloaked - which is not ISK efficient or even close unless you are mining in an officer fit ship.

Safety is yours for the taking already, but you have to actually take it.



even being aligned isnt enough as it takes time to spool up, you have to have 2 spots you pace back and forth so you dont go to far from what you are mining.

and if you want to warp our every little ship on your dscan then you will also never accomplish anything

just like freighter pilots, even the ones not on AP get ganked as the ships are far to slow and even with a tank they die, but most dont have a tank, nor does ccp falcons idiotic rant on having guns nor logi work as i watched a freighter with a logi fleet get bumped and die between 2 fleet attacks



Heaven forbid that you might need to bounce between *several* align points. Even mission runners have to do more complex things than that - they have to master the use of acceleration gates.

Freighters can't defend themselves, but they absolutely can have escorts. You've established that a purely logi escort didn't help - try a different escort configuration next time.



I support the New Order and CODE. alliance. www.minerbumping.com