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Hauling: Best defense against high sec pirates?

Author
Koweim Imm'Yka
Science and Trade Institute
Caldari State
#1 - 2014-11-18 03:11:33 UTC
I just got ganked for 300 million in cargo. Any advice on the best defense against being ganked in high sec by pirates? I'm flying an industrial ship, am I just vulnerable until I can pilot a freighter?

Thanks in advance for any help.
Justin Zaine
#2 - 2014-11-18 03:39:52 UTC
You'll be vulnerable until the day you stop autopiloting

He will win who knows when to fight and when not to fight.

He will win who, prepared himself, waits to take the enemy unprepared.

Omar Alharazaad
New Eden Tech Support
#3 - 2014-11-18 04:02:50 UTC
Don't autopilot.
If you plan on flying through known choke points it's not a bad idea to check out the map for recent kills in that area.
Don't autopilot.
Also, if you have the skills for it, you may wish to consider looking into a deep space transport. Those things can be tanked to the gills, making them quite a bit more expensive to try to gank.
Don't autopilot.
And you might want to check out...
http://evedarklord.blogspot.ca/2014/07/counter-ganking.html

Come hell or high water, this sick world will know I was here.

Koweim Imm'Yka
Science and Trade Institute
Caldari State
#4 - 2014-11-18 04:06:48 UTC
I don't auto-pilot
Omar Alharazaad
New Eden Tech Support
#5 - 2014-11-18 04:14:03 UTC
A Bustard or Crane might be right down your alley then. Tayra's are pretty easy to pop, whereas their advanced cousins have advantages that make em harder targets. The Bustard can be ubertanked, and the Crane gains the sneakages for survival in exchange for a much smaller cargohold.

Come hell or high water, this sick world will know I was here.

Mitch Ryan
Zirconium Industries
#6 - 2014-11-18 04:18:51 UTC
If you are going to move high value cargo in a standard industrial, try moving it at non peak times,, eg at server restart. Even then you are taking a chance.

Learn how to use the MWD/cloak trick
https://www.youtube.com/results?search_query=eve+online+MWD+cloak+trick

Train for a freighter and if you have an alt account, learn to use the webbing technique
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sAzjs229_kM

Fly smart and good luck
Iyokus Patrouette
University of Caille
Gallente Federation
#7 - 2014-11-18 05:16:23 UTC
So I took a look at the loss mail, you were hauling 1806m3 worth of items. in a ship that can haul 7300m3 worth of cargo space before fittings.

You then went and put 4x Cargo Expander tech 2's on it, DECREASING it's EHP

And then you put Cargohold Optimization rigs on.. Decreasing the EHP even more.

I will accept you then tried to tank it as an after thought with an Invuln, Medium extender and a shield booster. But even still it was a silly ship/fitting choice to make for such limited amount of items.

So the best defense is as much tank as you can cram onto the thing and just enough cargo space to suit your needs.

---- Advocate for the initiation of purple coloured wormholes----

Chainsaw Plankton
FaDoyToy
#8 - 2014-11-18 05:23:55 UTC
warp off before they can lock and scan you this usually involves not flying a hauler. or using a t2 hauler, and/or mwd/cloak.

or fit enough EHP it isn't profitable for them to try and gank you.

@ChainsawPlankto on twitter

Cephelange du'Krevviq
Gildinous Vangaurd
The Initiative.
#9 - 2014-11-18 06:13:36 UTC
I would advise against whichever of the Tech II Industrial hulls prevents cargo scanners from seeing what you're hauling. The gankers will automatically presume it's worth a lot and try to pop you.

"I am a leaf on the...ah, frak it!"

Justin Zaine
#10 - 2014-11-18 06:57:37 UTC  |  Edited by: Justin Zaine
Koweim Imm'Yka wrote:
I don't auto-pilot


Really?

It's difficult to cargo scan someone, take a look at their items, decide whether or not it's worth the gank and then lock and pop them before they have time to warp off.

Are you sure you weren't sitting afk on a gate or something?

Technically, you're vulnerable as long as the items in your cargo exceed the cost of the ships that are lost in the gank. Even then you're not safe, because lots of people don't gank for profit.

What Lyokus said was right, you didn't need any of those expanded cargohold mods on your ship. But only in a perfect world do we ever fit only as many cargo rigs as we need. Most people tend to fit for max cargo and just try to be as cautious as possible en-route by not autopiloting, so in that respect you didn't do anything "wrong" even though you could have taken further steps to prevent it.

If what you're saying about not autopiloting is true, then i'd say you're simply a victim of bad luck. Can't say i've seen too many people get their ship ganked while not autopiloting. Then again, I don't do ganks.

He will win who knows when to fight and when not to fight.

He will win who, prepared himself, waits to take the enemy unprepared.

BaByTemP
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#11 - 2014-11-18 07:14:43 UTC
also what haulers dont understant is the basics of tanking. shield extenders blap your sig radius meaning those pesky catalysts are going to have even more of a great time hitting you with ease.
Luwc
State War Academy
Caldari State
#12 - 2014-11-18 08:11:28 UTC
Dont Go Afk

fit a mwd + cloak.

if you get scanned on one side or see stuff that looks like "HEY TIME TO GANK SOME HAULER"

mwd and cloak until you can either insta-warp out of cloak . i.e. the cloak warp trick or you are out of range.

http://hugelolcdn.com/i/267520.gif

Kagura Nikon
Native Freshfood
Minmatar Republic
#13 - 2014-11-18 10:21:00 UTC
Koweim Imm'Yka wrote:
I just got ganked for 300 million in cargo. Any advice on the best defense against being ganked in high sec by pirates? I'm flying an industrial ship, am I just vulnerable until I can pilot a freighter?

Thanks in advance for any help.



You cannot be 100% safe. But.

Carry less

Tank a lot your ship ( makes them need more ships to gank you so lower their profit margin and reduces chances).

Scout your travel with an alt or friend

NEVER AP on anything that is not a shutle.

Use a blockade runner (by far the safest way)

"If brute force does not solve your problem....  then you are  surely not using enough!"

Kagura Nikon
Native Freshfood
Minmatar Republic
#14 - 2014-11-18 10:22:10 UTC
BaByTemP wrote:
also what haulers dont understant is the basics of tanking. shield extenders blap your sig radius meaning those pesky catalysts are going to have even more of a great time hitting you with ease.



Seems You are the one with lack of understanding. Any hauler signature is already WAY LARGER than the weapon resolutiosn on a catalysis. Increasing even more makes ZERO effect because they will not be orbiting you at speed.

"If brute force does not solve your problem....  then you are  surely not using enough!"

ggodhsup
relocation LLC.
#15 - 2014-11-18 10:40:23 UTC
300 mil isnt that much...you should consider yourself lucky.

300 mil worth of stuffs could probably be moved in an interceptor. unless its ships. in which case you should be using t2 haulers.

if you werent afk, then your align time must be terrible. i would suggest training evasive maneuvers to 5 and spaceship command to 5.

agility is your friend, and stabs....that being said, im still not sure how you got ganked in a hauler in high sec if you werent afk....a freighter maybe....but a hauler......for 300 mil.....im just not convinced.
Kagura Nikon
Native Freshfood
Minmatar Republic
#16 - 2014-11-18 10:46:25 UTC
ggodhsup wrote:
300 mil isnt that much...you should consider yourself lucky.

300 mil worth of stuffs could probably be moved in an interceptor. unless its ships. in which case you should be using t2 haulers.

if you werent afk, then your align time must be terrible. i would suggest training evasive maneuvers to 5 and spaceship command to 5.

agility is your friend, and stabs....that being said, im still not sure how you got ganked in a hauler in high sec if you werent afk....a freighter maybe....but a hauler......for 300 mil.....im just not convinced.



do not know why ... people keep scanning haulers that arrive at JITA and take second to dock all the time. If they arrive again in the next few minutes, people expect same value... and kill it.

"If brute force does not solve your problem....  then you are  surely not using enough!"

Bronson Hughes
The Knights of the Blessed Mother of Acceleration
#17 - 2014-11-18 15:10:39 UTC
When you cram several hundred million ISK worth of goods into a slow ship with the tank of a paper bag, you are going to be a target. Consider fitting more for agility and/or tank instead of capacity.

Relatively Notorious By Association

My Many Misadventures

I predicted FAUXs

Eli Stan
Center for Advanced Studies
Gallente Federation
#18 - 2014-11-18 16:50:23 UTC
Koweim Imm'Yka wrote:
I just got ganked for 300 million in cargo. Any advice on the best defense against being ganked in high sec by pirates? I'm flying an industrial ship, am I just vulnerable until I can pilot a freighter?

Thanks in advance for any help.


Looks like your industrial ship was paper thin - about 5k EHP or so? Take a look at some other industrials - some have enough powergrid (such that one or more large shield extenders can be fitted) to tank over 40k EHP assuming your rigs are tank oriented too. Based on some charts I've seen, you can still be ganked for the lulz but it would require enough Tornados to not be at all profitable for the gankers.
Paranoid Loyd
#19 - 2014-11-18 18:02:11 UTC
Justin Zaine wrote:

It's difficult to cargo scan someone, take a look at their items, decide whether or not it's worth the gank and then lock and pop them before they have time to warp off.
For a single player yes, but any ganker that is in it for profit will have a dedicated scanner. So its not really hard, especially with a slow aligning hauler.

Kagura Nikon wrote:
NEVER AP on anything that is not a shutle.
This is terrible advice, just never autopilot ever unless you don't care about losing your pod.



General rule of thumb ignoring the lolz factor is to carry less than 200 mil and be tanked for at least 15K EHP if you are using a T1 hauler. Blockade Runners and Deep Space Transports are preferred in most circumstances when carrying a high value load.

The MWD cloak trick will keep you safe as long as you are doing it properly. (I scan many that think they are doing it right but are not)

Best practice is to only fit cargo expanders to accommodate the load you are hauling and use a tankier ship whenever the load permits. Cargo rigs should rarely if ever be used when carry anything you don't want to lose. You should have been using a Badger with a healthy tank to carry that load.

Buffer is always preferable to hardeners or boosters, especially when dealing with the alpha of a Tornado as the hardeners and boosters did absolutely nothing in this case. PDUs in the lows give you extra shield hitpoints so fit them even if you don't need the power they provide.

"There is only one authority in this game, and that my friend is violence. The supreme authority upon which all other authority is derived." ISD Max Trix

Fix the Prospect!

Sgt Soulless
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#20 - 2014-11-18 18:03:52 UTC
Train Evasive Maneuvering to at least level 4. Also train other ship and navigation skills that improve your ship's agility or acceleration. This will significantly reduce your align and warp time, giving gankers less time to decide if you're worth shooting. Also train Mechanics, Hull Upgrades, and Shield Management to at least level 4, preferably level 5. These skills all increase your ships EHP. There are also shield and armor resistance skills you may want to train to increase EHP even further.

If you don't need your max cargo space, fitting a damage control in a low slot can give you a big EHP boost for only 1 slot (don't forget to turn it on!). But realistically, the best way to avoid ganking is with a blockade runner or deep space transport. The BR is very difficult to tackle without a bubble, and is immune to cargo scans. The DST just has so much EHP that it's not profitable to gank in highsec unless you've got a hold full of plex or something silly like that, plus it has a free warp stab bonus. In my personal experience using blockade runners, nobody has ever been able to tackle me without a bubble. If you're quick on the cloak button they get a fraction of a second to lock you. It can still happen, but most gankers are not flying with the ships you need to do it.

A couple general tips:
1. Use numbers to your advantage. If you're moving into a hub and there are other indy ships moving along the same path, wait for them to jump before you jump. Likewise, wait for them to align and warp before you align and warp. The ganker can only manage so many targets at once, and they may be too busy with other targets to catch you.

2. Use a cheap fast ship and make insta-undock bookmarks at major trading stations. You're invulnerable for about 30 seconds after undocking if you don't give any ship commands, and you're moving at full speed. A properly placed bookmark straight off the station exit can be warped to almost instantly. Place it either about 120km off the station, or off grid of the station. Far enough that you're well out of tackle range, but not so far that a ganker could just warp to you.

3. If you're moving especially valuable stuff from one hub to another, try to take an alternative route from the one that "set destination" gives you, and do it at off peak times. Generally after 9PM eastern on weekdays or around server restart. Never move valuable stuff on weekends if you can avoid it.
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