These forums have been archived and are now read-only.

The new forums are live and can be found at https://forums.eveonline.com/

EVE Fiction

 
  • Topic is locked indefinitely.
12Next page
 

Ship wrecks and explosions

First post
Author
Vlademyr
Absolute Order
Absolute Honor
#1 - 2014-11-18 02:53:45 UTC
Anyone care to specify what exactly would cause a spaceship to explode so violently that its reduced to a few pieces of scrap metal 100% of the time, no matter the size? Any explanation will do, as long as its specific, thanks in advance.
Uriel Paradisi Anteovnuecci
Itsukame-Zainou Hyperspatial Inquiries Ltd.
Arataka Research Consortium
#2 - 2014-11-18 03:30:05 UTC
I would guess it would be the warp core rupturing- I would assume it would emit a massive quantity of violent energy upon detonation, enough to rip a hull to shreds.
Saul Elsyn
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#3 - 2014-11-24 19:58:06 UTC
Vlademyr wrote:
Anyone care to specify what exactly would cause a spaceship to explode so violently that its reduced to a few pieces of scrap metal 100% of the time, no matter the size? Any explanation will do, as long as its specific, thanks in advance.


Game mechanics...

Truthfully we have stuff in lore and the novels that indicates ship destruction isn't quite as simplistic as we see in the game. Everything from crew survival rates (<5% to 80%) to some of the chronicles on how say the Blood Raiders operate (shoot a ship up, board it, and then hook up the survivors to pumps) indicate that ships do go down with survivors aboard. Essentially what we pick up from salvage is loose usable equipment that the scanner can identify. Considering most ships go down with 1/3rd of their modules in working order we can pickup, the visible collection of debris we see in game is probably not what is actually left of the vessel.
Vlademyr
Absolute Order
Absolute Honor
#4 - 2014-11-29 22:34:25 UTC
Saul Elsyn wrote:

Game mechanics...

Truthfully we have stuff in lore and the novels that indicates ship destruction isn't quite as simplistic as we see in the game. Everything from crew survival rates (<5% to 80%) to some of the chronicles on how say the Blood Raiders operate (shoot a ship up, board it, and then hook up the survivors to pumps) indicate that ships do go down with survivors aboard. Essentially what we pick up from salvage is loose usable equipment that the scanner can identify. Considering most ships go down with 1/3rd of their modules in working order we can pickup, the visible collection of debris we see in game is probably not what is actually left of the vessel.


So youre of the school of thought that whatever we see in game are the pods interpretations of the outside world as opposed to camera drones relaying a live feed?
Saul Elsyn
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#5 - 2014-12-04 00:22:11 UTC
Vlademyr wrote:
Saul Elsyn wrote:

Game mechanics...

Truthfully we have stuff in lore and the novels that indicates ship destruction isn't quite as simplistic as we see in the game. Everything from crew survival rates (<5% to 80%) to some of the chronicles on how say the Blood Raiders operate (shoot a ship up, board it, and then hook up the survivors to pumps) indicate that ships do go down with survivors aboard. Essentially what we pick up from salvage is loose usable equipment that the scanner can identify. Considering most ships go down with 1/3rd of their modules in working order we can pickup, the visible collection of debris we see in game is probably not what is actually left of the vessel.


So youre of the school of thought that whatever we see in game are the pods interpretations of the outside world as opposed to camera drones relaying a live feed?


Camera drones are only one layer of input we receive as pod pilots. Overall there's no reason for a Caldari frigate wreck to visually be identical to a Minmatar frigate wreck. I'm going to guess that there's some sort of filter on the feed of camera drones... as there are a number of things we should see but don't (a good example is escape pods coming off ships).
Quattras Peione
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#6 - 2014-12-05 23:03:04 UTC  |  Edited by: Quattras Peione
Also of note here is the total lack of visible damage except a single jet of plasma right before the very end. Or how ships with a few centimeters of plating added can still be completely identical to unmodified ones. Or how sometimes the visible dimensions of objects don't match the physical space they fill, causing invisible obstructions in your path.

If you want to know why camera drones don't see these things, ask some of the old hats from IGS. I would definitely be interested in seeing their answers.

My own personal interpretation is that the camera drones aren't just cameras on a ball of thrusters - that would restrict you to detecting light in the visible spectrum. I imagine a full sensor suite analyzing several spectra and consolidating the received data into a single cohesive image that the mind can comprehend. What you "see" are not actual physical objects but the drones' interpretation thereof. That floating pile of debris is actually an "icon" that represents a rekt ship.

Dr. Quattras Alvar Peione

No, I'm not that kind of doctor.

Vlademyr
Absolute Order
Absolute Honor
#7 - 2014-12-14 15:29:29 UTC
^ +1 for saying rekt. I agree with your exposition! :D Muh immersiun is satisfied.
EdwardNardella
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#8 - 2014-12-14 16:56:14 UTC
Perhaps this?
Capsuleers are known for their emotional detachment. One reason for this is that the information a capsuleer receives through their neural interface can be heavily filtered in order to optimize performance. For example, most capsuleers consider escape pods irrelevant to any task they wish to accomplish and will thus turn on filters that remove them from view and from the capsuleers perception of reality entirely. Another example which will help explain the emotional detachment that capsuleers are known to display is that many have their filters set to "sanitize" any emotionally triggering imagery. So bodies and torn wreckage is reduced to simple placeholders that are much less unpleasant to view.
Bagrat Skalski
Koinuun Kotei
#9 - 2014-12-15 22:02:59 UTC  |  Edited by: Bagrat Skalski
I dont know if we can get a model of blowed up raven in a place of raven, that would make game slightly more demanding from the server I think. and for the filters, I cant stick it to the game and lore, we have bodies and titans visible in the overview and in the space, and in our inventories we can see corpses. As cloning removes some of the fear of death, macabre is slightly less scary, even to the point that some capsuleers are collecting the corpses of their fallen opponents...
Eojek
Starlight Moly
#10 - 2015-01-03 02:07:32 UTC
It takes time and limited resources to produce the models for each and every ship. Flatly, I would prefer to have an option to have ship explosions that involved physics, where an exploding titan would set off a smartbomb with based on proximity. Ships cripled and close would buckle, their own wrecked hulls flipping end over end away from the titan's flaming remnants.

Let's see a good example of how I wish wrecks would affect a battlefield.

http://youtu.be/ZwF67bhdXfk
Eija-Riitta Veitonen
State War Academy
Caldari State
#11 - 2015-01-07 22:21:28 UTC
I'd like to note that capital and supercapital ships leave unique and identifyable wrecks. And CCP have demonstrated they have tech to produce wrecked models in a somewhat automated way, so, perhaps, the time will come for other ship classes to leave unique wrecks as well. Soon™.

Lore-wise, I really liked Quattras Peione's explanation. There is definitely much more to the camera drone than a simple camera with thrusters.
Vash Typhoon
New Eden Public Security Section 9
#12 - 2015-01-25 18:13:42 UTC
Lore and game clash each other in many ways, there are things and mechanics you can find a work around in game, but not all.
CCP Falcon
#13 - 2015-02-02 16:43:16 UTC
Interesting discussion Big smile

CCP Falcon || EVE Universe Community Manager || @CCP_Falcon

Happy Birthday To FAWLTY7! <3

Phoenix Jones
Small-Arms Fire
#14 - 2015-02-02 19:24:04 UTC  |  Edited by: Phoenix Jones
Shrugs. Thought you were talking about a ship wreck that looks like the ship that exploded (like freighters and caps).

Yaay!!!!

Kyoko Sakoda
Achura-Waschi Exchange
Monyusaiya Industry Trade Group
#15 - 2015-02-03 07:48:52 UTC
It would be quite cool for the 4 racial types to break apart in different ways due to differences in their reactor technology etc. It's technically feasible with today's GPUs, it just requires work.

For one of our old videos we imagined Caldari ships must have reactors powered by Hawking radiation, so we went with a micro black hole shockwave effect that was equal parts explosion and tidal sheer.
Arline Kley
PIE Inc.
Khimi Harar
#16 - 2015-02-03 09:48:23 UTC
Quote:
Any explanation will do, as long as its specific, thanks in advance.


The ship is under fire, and damage control tams are desperately attempting to seal of sections of the ship to try to keep it intact; some are sealed with crew inside, left to die in either fire or vaccum so that others survive. Klaxons sound out around the ship, informing the crew that fire has spread towards the magazines and that the ammunition is dangerously close to detonation. While most of your crew flee to the escape pods in a desperate attempt to survive, others stay behind to keep the ship alive that little bit longer so that others can get out safely. A few moments later, a white flash engulfs their vision as death comes to claim them.

You awake in a clean, medical bay 20 systems over from when your ship was destroyed. You board another ship from your hangar and head back out for more.



Kyoko Sakoda wrote:
For one of our old videos we imagined Caldari ships must have reactors powered by Hawking radiation, so we went with a micro black hole shockwave effect that was equal parts explosion and tidal sheer.
Well for the Amarr it would be fantastically violent death - the amount of Anti-Matter in the drives would instantly annhilate itself the moment its containment field failed. Fragments of the ship would be catapulted into space in all directions and the light would be blinding.

The Caldari ships would be torn asunder, but also be more compact - the brief existance of the black hole enough to keep the majority of the ship in one location. The missile racks could also detonate, tearing the ship apart even if the reactor was not breached.

The Gallente ships would be consumed with nuclear fire - a micro-star forming around their engineering bay as the fusion reactor was parted, and if the weapons bays are ignited, the enery stored in the capacitors would be violently released, acting in a similar way to an ammunition explosion.

And the Minmatar? Its difficult to say.. their ships are ruins anyway ;)

"For it was said they had become like those peculiar demons, which dwell in matter but in whom no light may be found." - Father Grigori, Ravens 3:57

Kyoko Sakoda
Achura-Waschi Exchange
Monyusaiya Industry Trade Group
#17 - 2015-02-03 10:01:38 UTC
If you look at the construction components the Amarrians use fusion and the Gallenteans use antimatter.

You're right though, wouldn't want to be caught in that gamma ray blast. :s
epicurus ataraxia
Illusion of Solitude.
Illusion of Solitude
#18 - 2015-02-03 15:16:19 UTC
The destruction of a ship you have put everything into destroying is very anticlimatic. Whilst not going totally bananas, something a little more satisfying would be nice.

There is one EvE. Many people. Many lifestyles. WE are EvE

Balthasar Dorian
Ministry of War
Amarr Empire
#19 - 2015-04-27 05:04:21 UTC  |  Edited by: Balthasar Dorian
epicurus ataraxia wrote:
The destruction of a ship you have put everything into destroying is very anticlimatic. Whilst not going totally bananas, something a little more satisfying would be nice.


I think that they are releasing new explosion effects pretty soon. They look pretty sweet but it all happens so quickly that you can't really enjoy it Straight

Maybe slow down the explosion velocity for us onlookers? Blink

All things considered the current explosion effects don't do these ships justice.

As for why so little salvage remains (with the exception of capitals), I would say that it has to do with the incredible amount of energy contained in a ship's warp core. It is not a stretch to say that the binding energy of particles in your ship doesn't stand a chance in hell of holding up against the blast from that dying core. The average ship can warp several thousand times the speed of light and accelerate to that speed in a few seconds.

To put things in perspective, if you were to use E=MC2 for mass energy equivalence you would need several thousand times the annual energy consumption of the United States to simply FORM a warp bubble around an object equal in mass to an EVE frigate. Let's not even go there with the bigger ships! Shocked

Now propel that already difficult to assemble warp bubble to a few billion kilometers per second!

If we are to extrapolate from Einstein's field equations and general relativity, the stress-energy tensor for forward-like momentum of a warp bubble could be considered equivalent to the "Killing Vector field" moving across the surface of a stabilized 4th dimensional Lorentzian or Pseudo-Riemannian manifold (i.e "warp bubble"). Assuming first that quantum gravity is an actual thing and that this is riding on hyperspaces like a wheel. The difference now is that the integral form of the gravitational field is no longer zero but has been altered to increase exponentially. To translate that into non-android language, it's like rolling mount Everest across the entire continent of Asia at Mach 20! .....Damn

Forget about calculations. There is no easily digestible comparison for how much energy is needed to move gravity to that speed in a matter of seconds.

If anything, eve ship explosions should be far more terrifying and destructive than any weapon currently in game! Twisted
Teinyhr
Ourumur
#20 - 2015-04-27 23:07:13 UTC
Kyoko Sakoda wrote:
If you look at the construction components the Amarrians use fusion and the Gallenteans use antimatter


https://wiki.eveonline.com/en/wiki/Capital_Antimatter_Reactor_Unit

Actually it is the other way around, just making a note here.
12Next page