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[Rhea] Graphical Features Feedback and Discussion

First post
Author
Alvatore DiMarco
Capricious Endeavours Ltd
#121 - 2014-11-19 10:03:03 UTC
So I want to take a moment and post a follow-up for CCP Sledgehammer regarding my earlier lengthy wall of text.

I re-examined all the Amarr ships again and in general they do look pretty good. The white armor is mostly only terrible on the Oracle; everywhere else it's not too bad. I think a lot has to do with how much detail and shading is or isn't present, and the Oracle's hull doesn't seem to have much in those white areas compared to most other ships. The degree of matte or gloss in the white plating makes an enormous difference as well. A main thing I noticed was that as the ships get larger, the overall scheme looks better and better.

On the subject of matte and gloss, the Abaddon (and to an extent the Prophecy) really helped put good words to what's been bugging me about the gold trim. It's not the color - that's actually quite fine - but rather it's the glossiness on some ships. As these are Amarr ships, there is a lot of gold trim, as you'd expect. However, some ships have disproportionately more than others (Abaddon and Prophecy again) and in situations like that it's really important to make sure that the gold trim isn't over-glossy or looking rough and bumpy instead of weathered. An excellent comparison is the Abaddon's shiny, bumpy, shiny (yes, I did it deliberately) trim which makes me kind of cringe a little bit vs the Apocalypse's and Armageddon's trim which looks flat-out astounding.

More impressive still are the Impairor and the Amarr Shuttle. The Impairor has a lot of gold trim on it for a ship that size. A lot. However, the main strip down the center isn't as shiny as it could be and instead is slightly weathered to mute the sheen. The two pieces off to each side are glossier and less weathered but are broken up by that engraving which actually has enough detail in it to survive the new rendering process in a generally pleasing state. This new PBR brings out literally every last detail in a skin and not all of them have enough detail for it (perfect example being the wingtip hardpoints on the Harbinger which look perfectly terrible now).

The Amarr Shuttle, meanwhile, shows what matte armor plating should look like. If it's not going to reflect light then it bloody well shouldn't reflect light. I went back after looking at this and checked out some of the Caldari ships I thought were plastic-y and they actually reflected more light than the Shuttle but not as much as the new Minmatar ships (which are mostly all amazing by the way, now that I've stopped and had a long look at them).

The gold on the shuttle is weathered and dulled nicely, and while there's overall a higher percentage of gold on the shuttle than on the Impairor, the shuttles matte panels (which are moreso than the Impairor's) balance it very well.

So mostly, to improve Amarr further I think it goes something like this: Smooth out all the gold trim on old ships where it's rough and bumpy, dull the sheen a little bit with some weathering on ships where it's really glossy and make sure none of the white hull plating is glossy. Put some detail back into the Oracle's forward hull.

Then, when you're all done, please give the Abaddon, Harbinger and Prophecy proper 2014 reskins. Leave the model, just make new skins with the level of detail new ships are getting.

....and with all that, I wrote another wall of text. Joy.
Cyndrogen
The Greatest Corp in the Universe
#122 - 2014-11-19 10:41:19 UTC
The work is great so far and I realize it's still in development and early but good work and progress!

My question is what exactly are you doing that makes the lighting PBR? Are you raytracing? Bouncing and scattering light?
I'm a lighting artist and render engines are my passion. Curious to learn more about the PBR tech in the latest build. Are you seriously doing brute force monte carlo rendering or caching the indirect light?

Thanks!

Every day in every way I improve my skills and get better.

CCP Mankiller
C C P
C C P Alliance
#123 - 2014-11-19 11:10:35 UTC
There's a devblog coming up with all the answers! ...and lots of formulas... Big smile
Aikar Nahrnid
Hedion University
Amarr Empire
#124 - 2014-11-19 11:15:02 UTC
New version of PBR is nearly perfect, as for me. Just one thing:
Please, bring uniformity in hull lights and drone bay forcefield colors on each color scheme.
Green lights oh khanid and carthum ships looks weird. The same goes to Avatar and Providence. Et cetera.
Theran Emoner
Electronic Scientific Recreational
#125 - 2014-11-19 11:16:12 UTC
The camera pivoting in space around the new Blackbird mesh is off. In the station, the camera pivots around a point somewhere in the center of the ship, as it should be. But in space, preview windows, and the fitting window, the pivot point is below the ship for some reason.

I took a screenshot and drew some lines to illustrate this

I have checked with other ships and this doesn't happen, and my camera settings are all default (no offset or anything).
CCP Sledgehammer
C C P
C C P Alliance
#126 - 2014-11-19 11:17:04 UTC
Theran Emoner wrote:
The camera pivoting in space around the new Blackbird mesh is off. In the station, the camera pivots around a point somewhere in the center of the ship, as it should be. But in space, preview windows, and the fitting window, the pivot point is below the ship for some reason.

I took a screenshot and drew some lines to illustrate this

I have checked with other ships and this doesn't happen, and my camera settings are all default (no offset or anything).


Yeah this is the case for a couple of other ships too, we are looking into it.

Graphical QA Analyst | EVE Quality Assurance | Team TriLambda

Theran Emoner
Electronic Scientific Recreational
#127 - 2014-11-19 11:25:15 UTC
CCP Sledgehammer wrote:
Theran Emoner wrote:
The camera pivoting in space around the new Blackbird mesh is off. In the station, the camera pivots around a point somewhere in the center of the ship, as it should be. But in space, preview windows, and the fitting window, the pivot point is below the ship for some reason.

I took a screenshot and drew some lines to illustrate this

I have checked with other ships and this doesn't happen, and my camera settings are all default (no offset or anything).


Yeah this is the case for a couple of other ships too, we are looking into it.


Fantastic! Thanks for your great work Smile
Altrue
Exploration Frontier inc
Tactical-Retreat
#128 - 2014-11-19 12:15:43 UTC
Great work on the Onyx, it really looks cool now Big smile Especially with the added black instead of the red head.

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Salpun
Global Telstar Federation Offices
SLYCE Pirates
#129 - 2014-11-19 13:14:08 UTC
Black bird animation(only warp out animation works) and warp trails still not correct.

If i dont know something about EVE. I check https://wiki.eveonline.com/en/wiki/ISK_The_Guide

See you around the universe.

Valterra Craven
#130 - 2014-11-19 16:14:25 UTC  |  Edited by: Valterra Craven
Warde Guildencrantz wrote:


So you prefer super old textures and a blockship with no moving parts.

What reasons support the old one over this new one? All I've heard is complaints about the new one, but nothing about what was good about the old one.


Honestly, I never liked the old one. But given that this is a binary choice, I'm going to voice my opinion for the lesser of two evils in those circumstances every single time. The moa resigned was brilliant. Not only does it have a birdlike quality to it but it also manages to be quite mean looking. This new blackbird is just worse, yes its less blocky, but it looks like they just decided to throw everything on it and it looks like an antenna graveyard with no rhyme or reason. Blocks suck, but they are definitely better than what is coming!
elitatwo
Zansha Expansion
Brave Collective
#131 - 2014-11-19 16:34:54 UTC
Nooooes!!

Amarr ships looked much better two days ago. Where did the Amarr fleet get that black on epic ships like the Armageddon or the Apocalypse?

The Khanid ships look okay with that silver and black-glossy armor but the Damnation doesn't look like an angry bird with scary blue shining eyes anymore Sad pls reconsider the blue shiney eyes on the Damnation and the red shining eyes on the Prophecy.

The Sansha ships lost all their Terminator-steel gloss Sad

Tech one Gallente hulls look cool and the tech2 hulls are too shiney for my taste.

I am not a fan of the new Blackbird hull, she doesn't look like a bird, nor a black bird. The only Caldari hulls that need better looking hulls are the Griffin, the Bantam and the toothbru- errm.. Osprey.

I am still wondering what kind of bird a scorpion is but what do I know..

Eve Minions is recruiting.

This is the law of ship progression!

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Noriko Mai
#132 - 2014-11-19 16:36:04 UTC
CCP Sledgehammer wrote:
Theran Emoner wrote:
The camera pivoting in space around the new Blackbird mesh is off. In the station, the camera pivots around a point somewhere in the center of the ship, as it should be. But in space, preview windows, and the fitting window, the pivot point is below the ship for some reason.

I took a screenshot and drew some lines to illustrate this

I have checked with other ships and this doesn't happen, and my camera settings are all default (no offset or anything).


Yeah this is the case for a couple of other ships too, we are looking into it.

It's the same for the Oracle for ages now. The center is behind the ship. I hope you can fix this too.

"Meh.." - Albert Einstein

Andreus Ixiris
Duty.
SE7EN-SINS
#133 - 2014-11-19 16:49:51 UTC
CCP Mankiller wrote:
There's a devblog coming up with all the answers! ...and lots of formulas... Big smile

Does that include answers about the goggles? Blink

Andreus Ixiris > A Civire without a chin is barely a Civire at all.

Pieter Tuulinen > He'd be Civirely disadvantaged, Andreus.

Andreus Ixiris > ...

Andreus Ixiris > This is why we're at war.

Rena Monachica
Capital Hot Rods
#134 - 2014-11-19 16:54:21 UTC
As I said in the other thread .. the Gallente T2 Hulls are way too shiny for my taste
Rivr Luzade
Coreli Corporation
Pandemic Legion
#135 - 2014-11-19 16:55:19 UTC
And the Loki, where the center is under the ship with some sub system configurations that make the Loki look like an arc.

UI Improvement Collective

My ridicule, heavy criticism and general pale outlook about your or CCP's ideas is nothing but an encouragement to prove me wrong. Give it a try.

Danglabesh
Viziam
Amarr Empire
#136 - 2014-11-19 17:42:36 UTC
Pls leave Sansha as they are now. The dark shiny is way better on TQ; but i like the new golden coercer.
Bienator II
madmen of the skies
#137 - 2014-11-19 17:51:11 UTC
something is wrong with amarr tech-part textures. It looks to me as if two textures have been merged into one.

compare Oracle back side
http://i.imgur.com/wUEsFAh.png (two textures used, one brown and one is the ship hull texture)
with
http://i.imgur.com/Xo2C6G1.png (new, all black)

or Sentinel top side
http://i.imgur.com/P8fVi3h.png (two materials)
with
http://i.imgur.com/ACFMSSQ.png (one material again)

you also notice that the tech parts of small ships look very oily. Esp on the sentinel. Some material properties might need adjustments there.

how to fix eve: 1) remove ECM 2) rename dampeners to ECM 3) add new anti-drone ewar for caldari 4) give offgrid boosters ongrid combat value

Bienator II
madmen of the skies
#138 - 2014-11-19 18:13:59 UTC
CCP Sledgehammer wrote:
Theran Emoner wrote:
The camera pivoting in space around the new Blackbird mesh is off. In the station, the camera pivots around a point somewhere in the center of the ship, as it should be. But in space, preview windows, and the fitting window, the pivot point is below the ship for some reason.

I took a screenshot and drew some lines to illustrate this

I have checked with other ships and this doesn't happen, and my camera settings are all default (no offset or anything).


Yeah this is the case for a couple of other ships too, we are looking into it.

same for oracle (center behind the ship) and tornado

how to fix eve: 1) remove ECM 2) rename dampeners to ECM 3) add new anti-drone ewar for caldari 4) give offgrid boosters ongrid combat value

Steve Atreides
Phoenix Interstellar Enterprises
#139 - 2014-11-19 18:16:54 UTC
The only thing I really could copmment on was the rendering of my Cynabal. It looked horrible, there semed more details but the colour was washed out and my already nice looking ship did not look nice at all.

Also, while docked, the frame rate seemd to be really jerky but the fps monitor said 55-60 so would assume this would be something t do with the server processing the new graphics

New details good, colour depth very bad, please improve the colour for the new rendering a lot.

Also very concerned about adding dust and other particles in belts. I get problems with missions with dust etc and alsways my frame drops a lot. There was supposed to be an option to disable this effect but I cant find it. Adding similar effects to all the belts we need to ensure that a pilot has some control over the settings for these effects, switch them off entirely or switch off/activate different aspects of this at will.

Lower end machines are not going to enjoy the new effects and it could put people off the game.

My machine is not amazingly high end but I have intel i7, 2gb Nvidia GTX 750 ti, 16gm RAm and Gigabyte Motherboard, normally deals with max settings no problem for two clients. Gets a bit hot with 3 on max :)
Maruk Ihnati
Coreli Corporation
Pandemic Legion
#140 - 2014-11-19 18:29:20 UTC  |  Edited by: Maruk Ihnati
CCP Sledgehammer wrote:


  • Ship Redesigns - Enyo, Ishkur
  • STATUS: DEPLOYED, UPDATES MADE BASED ON ISSUES FOUND
    The aforementioned Hulls have been updated with new geometry and textures.



    The old Enyo and Ishkur have distinctive engines and antennas. The new ships do not. Can we have them back? They look now just like the Incursus but different color. They lost their personality. The Taranis and Ares still have the specific T2 modifications, why did the Incursus T2 ships lose them?

    From the status on them it seems you are done with them. It would be a shame though.

    And a big thank you for the step down on the shininess of Duvolle Labs ships.