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Longtom McGregor

2ndAmendment

Likes received: 24

#1 - 2014-11-17 06:21:15 UTC

I've been around for a long time. This is my first post on these forums - ever.

I don't generally complain, but today, I saw a guy camping a gate with a friend, and between them they had FIFTEEN multiboxed characters. Of course, they easily slaughtering anything that came in or out of the gate.

With that kind of money, skills don't matter. Ships don't matter. "Pay to win," indeed.

Now, I'm not trying to complain, but this just made me sad. When I say sad, I mean really, down to my toes sad.

Are we going to have to get a minimum of four accounts and learn how to multibox in order to enjoy the game? Is the difference between success or failure not by skills but by why owns the most payed accounts?

Has it sunk as low as this?

Marrr quet Whoorrr

Doomheim

Likes received: 3

#2 - 2014-11-17 06:42:41 UTC

The concept of Pay to win is not valid within Eve

Pay to win is the concept where a player uses real life currency to beat other players who may be inherently better than you within the parameters of the game
Usually by means that is unobtainable within the limits of the game if you do not use external ("real" (#eveisreal#ccpseagullweloveyouverymuch#ccpingeneraltoo)) currency

Multiboxing does require a program, or clever use of game windows and multiple computers + sticky tape and sticks to manipulate mass mouse / keyboard strokes

You absolutely do not require multiple characters to play this game, nor enjoy it
Yes certain goals are locked behind a minimum player limit but that does not mean you need more toons

Eve is fundamentally a multiplayer game, so go make friends that can all think for themselves instead of just a replicated keystroke

Also you can buy plex >>> multiple accounts, so again...not really pay to win....

Mocam

Aliastra

Gallente Federation

Likes received: 506

#3 - 2014-11-17 06:52:43 UTC

If you want to get deeper in, get more accounts.

You can do it with 3 accounts. 2 if you squeeze it into a niche in dangerous space. Beyond that, a minority of players use 1 account outside highsec.

As you can see by the above post, justifications for doing this will be common in this thread but the reality is that this game now pretty much requires multiple accounts to get deeper into it - that is accepted by the majority of those who play.

Science and Trade Institute Caldari State 3,623
Jvpiter Science and Trade Institute Caldari State Likes received: 3,623	#4 - 2014-11-17 07:01:37 UTC 1 How did you encounter a gate camp? Why would any of your assets jump a gate without knowing what's on the other side? Even if we ignore the collosal mistake that you made, which is hard to do, do you think you would have survived fifteen individual people at that gate? What is the fundamental difference between the two? Call me Joe.

Unsuccessful At Everything

The Troll Bridge

Likes received: 23,523

#5 - 2014-11-17 07:11:07 UTC

Jvpiter wrote:

How did you encounter a gate camp? Why would any of your assets jump a gate without knowing what's on the other side?

Even if we ignore the collosal mistake that you made, which is hard to do, do you think you would have survived fifteen individual people at that gate?

What is the fundamental difference between the two?

Its obvious.

You cant use the words 'Pay to Win' in a gripe about 15 individual people stomping your ***.

Its all about the buzzwords man! Lrn2gripe.

Since the cessation of their usefulness is imminent, may I appropriate your belongings?

Nevyn Auscent

Broke Sauce

Likes received: 4,077

#6 - 2014-11-17 07:16:09 UTC

Jvpiter wrote:

How did you encounter a gate camp? Why would any of your assets jump a gate without knowing what's on the other side?
Even if we ignore the colossal mistake that you made, which is hard to do, do you think you would have survived fifteen individual people at that gate?
What is the fundamental difference between the two?

Because the scout can know what's on the other side without jumping first?
And because if you don't have multiple accounts you don't always have a scout handy?
Also 15 individual people have a larger chance of human error.
And without ISboxer 15 multiboxed accounts have a command lag as they tab through each one.

So, there is a difference between one person ISBoxing 15 accounts and any other scenario.

ISBoxer does violate the spirit of the EULA with regards to not being allowed to use programs that speed up an activity faster than a human could do so.

TharOkha

0asis Group

Likes received: 954

#7 - 2014-11-17 07:21:50 UTC | Edited by: TharOkha

Mocam wrote:

If you want to get deeper in, get more accounts.

.

And thats the problem with this game.

Wana be better?...buy more accounts
wana be unstoppable? buy multibox software

And this is not just about "to have some advantage" in game (like offgrid booster or something). In case of pvp, for example bombing runs in bombers, multibox software have a waaay too huge advantage. In fact, being a human, piloting your multiple ships, is a major disadvantage.

Dont ignore the elephant in the room... Multibox software must die in EVE.

CODE. Venture hunt contest in a nutshell

Prince Kobol

Likes received: 2,558

#8 - 2014-11-17 07:27:01 UTC | Edited by: Prince Kobol

Marrr quet Whoorrr wrote:

The concept of Pay to win is not valid within Eve

Multiboxing does require a program, or clever use of game windows and multiple computers + sticky tape and sticks to manipulate mass mouse / keyboard strokes

You do not need multiple computers, sticky tape, clever use of game windows etc etc.

All you need is ISboxer which is very easy to use considering the amount of guides both on their forums and on youtube and a decent PC.

That is all.

Marrr quet Whoorrr wrote:

You absolutely do not require multiple characters to play this game, nor enjoy it
Yes certain goals are locked behind a minimum player limit but that does not mean you need more toons

You do realise you have just contradicted yourself yeah,

Marrr quet Whoorrr wrote:

Eve is fundamentally a multiplayer game, so go make friends that can all think for themselves instead of just a replicated keystroke.

Very true, or just buy lots more characters + ISBoxer and have yourself a one many army which is what more and more people are doing.

Marrr quet Whoorrr wrote:

Also you can buy plex >>> multiple accounts, so again...not really pay to win....

So are you saying that buying plexes to obtain more accounts and then buying multiboxing software is not pay to win?

Toxicblu3

University of Caille

Gallente Federation

Likes received: 5

#9 - 2014-11-17 07:32:06 UTC | Edited by: Toxicblu3

TharOkha wrote:

Mocam wrote:

If you want to get deeper in, get more accounts.

.

And thats the problem with this game.

Wana be better?...buy more accounts
wana be unstoppable? buy multibox software

Dont ignore the elephant in the room... Multibox software must die in EVE.

Will never happen.
Too much money to be had from people paying subs and using plex to have those accounts.

CCP is a business.

Actually the mmo market in general is plagued with multiboxing for the most part. The unforunate thing though is that most of the other ones im thinking of are almost entirely pve focused, and eve is not.

Still.. If it keeps a 10+ year old game going strong with content updates every few months I dont mind dealing with it. Of course this is coming from a guy that has had several accounts over the years, doesn't remember all the login info's, and has had more inactive time than actual subscription time on all of them.

But its nice to be able to come back whenever I want and have everything still seem fresh. ;)


Jvpiter Science and Trade Institute Caldari State Likes received: 3,623	#10 - 2014-11-17 07:33:26 UTC Prince Kobol wrote: So are you saying that buying plexes to obtain more accounts [...] is not pay to win? You have lost your mind. Call me Joe.

Jvpiter

Science and Trade Institute

Caldari State

Likes received: 3,623

#11 - 2014-11-17 07:41:19 UTC | Edited by: Jvpiter

Nevyn Auscent wrote:

Because the scout can know what's on the other side without jumping first?

A scout is expendable. A scout dies so your assets don't have to.

Quote:

And because if you don't have multiple accounts you don't always have a scout handy?

Friends don't cost any money. Also, you get 3 pilots per account and gate camps don't assemble in mere minutes.

Quote:

Also 15 individual people have a larger chance of human error.
And without ISboxer 15 multiboxed accounts have a command lag as they tab through each one.

In certain activities such as mining and bombing multiboxers are better than individual pilots because they effectively bypass the logistical difficulties of a squad of individuals. I disagree that gate camps are one of these activities.

Thread starter should never have been in that situation to begin with.

Call me Joe.

Josef Djugashvilis

Likes received: 3,578

#12 - 2014-11-17 07:46:12 UTC | Edited by: Josef Djugashvilis

[quote=Jvpiter]

How did you encounter a gate camp? Why would any of your assets jump a gate without knowing what's on the other side?

Even if we ignore the collosal mistake that you made, which is hard to do, do you think you would have survived fifteen individual people at that gate?

What is the fundamental difference between the two?

[/quote

Perhaps it because it takes more effort to organize fifteen people to death camp a gate than for two multi-boxers to death camp a gate?

This is not a signature.

Baneken

Arctic Light Inc.

Arctic Light

Likes received: 522

#13 - 2014-11-17 07:54:19 UTC

Jvpiter wrote:

Friends don't cost any money. Also, you get 3 pilots per account and gate camps don't assemble in mere minutes.

You are aware that you can use only one character at a time per account, right ?
That means each of those characters is it's own account.

Though I don't see ISB or other similar software as a problem in it self. I see it as problem in that there could had been 14 more actual players in gate camp and that takes way the M in MMO and that can't be a good thing for EVE in the long run.

Almethea

Trans Stellar Express

Likes received: 201

#14 - 2014-11-17 08:08:40 UTC | Edited by: Almethea

hey look a new isboxer thread!

also since plex, eve turn to pay2win (buy gtc > sell plex > buy toon/ship/mods)

also check Elite Dangerous, Star Citizen, Star Conflict (warning it's a pay2win but can be fun if you found good wingmen)

oh btw i used isboxer so i pay2win too

there's so many thing to fix in eve.... and they fix forum ! GJ! but ok i like it !

CCP Fozzie : AFK cloaking, however, is an entirely social form of power

Space Mermaids 870
Ocih Space Mermaids Likes received: 870	#15 - 2014-11-17 08:09:15 UTC EVE Online is an old MMO that has old consepts. One of those concepts is that gank trumps all. 3 guys, 15 ships. 15 guys, 15 ships. People gank because it works. If it was new I could better appreciate your story but it's as old as EVE.

Toxicblu3

University of Caille

Gallente Federation

Likes received: 5

#16 - 2014-11-17 08:11:07 UTC

Baneken wrote:

Jvpiter wrote:

Friends don't cost any money. Also, you get 3 pilots per account and gate camps don't assemble in mere minutes.

Hes talking about logging off your main, logging on an alt, scanning the gate from the contact side, logging off the alt, logging back into the main, and jumping through.

Tedious but if your jumping anything of value its better than the alternative


Jvpiter Science and Trade Institute Caldari State Likes received: 3,623	#17 - 2014-11-17 08:12:52 UTC 2 Josef Djugashvilis wrote: Perhaps it because it takes more effort to organize fifteen people to death camp a gate than for two multi-boxers to death camp a gate? No one should amend the EULA to account for a person's lack of ability to rally corpies to do something. Call me Joe.

Arronicus

State War Academy

Caldari State

Likes received: 1,581

#18 - 2014-11-17 10:35:27 UTC

Longtom McGregor wrote:

I've been around for a long time.

I don't generally complain, but today, I saw a guy camping a gate with a friend, and between them they had FIFTEEN multiboxed characters.

You've been around a long time, and this is one of the first times that you've run into a gatecamp with 2 people 7-8 ships each.

Sounds to me like, by your own statements, this is not a common issue.

Weaponised Vegemite Flying Dangerous 47,807
Scipio Artelius Weaponised Vegemite Flying Dangerous Likes received: 47,807	#19 - 2014-11-17 10:51:00 UTC Longtom McGregor wrote: Are we going to have to get a minimum of four accounts and learn how to multibox in order to enjoy the game? Is the difference between success or failure not by skills but by why owns the most payed accounts? No. One character. Avoid the gate. Simple problem solved and no kills for them.