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Are Skiffs overpowered ? Discuss.......
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Dracvlad
Taishi Combine
Astral Alliance
#101 - 2014-11-18 08:32:53 UTC
Sabriz Adoudel wrote:
I'm fine with Skiffs being unable to be soloed, but they are a tad ridiculous at the moment.

We in CODE. can get them, because we are organised and determined. The problem is that noone except for the most organised groups can kill Skiffs, even when the Skiff pilot is extremely stupid.

Incidentally the same is true of Marauders. Despite being skilled into them, I'd support them getting slapped with the nerfbat a little. (Until then, I will field the OP ship in PVP from time to time).


Its a difficult one because in spite of myself I think that there should be reasons to use the other ships, yield could be reduced a bit, the small ore bay is a factor and does hurt. Eve is supposed to be a challenge, the Skiff is a challenge, I use it as I like to be in a ship that is difficult to kill, yield is a secondary factor to me.

Marauders, they give some very interesting tactical possibilities, the price premium makes them a bit expensive to risk, from that point there is a balance to them, some very rich players do use them for PvP and there are certain scenarios that I would use them too. I have been testing the tank on the Paladin, there is a certain guy in Stain using one as bait, I have his ship scanned out (there was a cyno) and I am looking at what I need to take it out with two toons, its a challenge which is likely to be above me based on the cyno, but thats Eve...

When the going gets tough the Gankers get their CSM rep to change mechanics in their favour.

Blocked: Teckos Pech, Sonya Corvinus, baltec1, Shae Tadaruwa, Wander Prian, Daichi Yamato, Jonah Gravenstein, Merin Ryskin, Linus Gorp
Aqriue
Center for Advanced Studies
Gallente Federation
#102 - 2014-11-18 11:03:34 UTC
Sounds like a whine about someone who is unable to adapt. No where in this thread did I see a mention of a talos which I can only surmise that a lot of risk averse folks won't fly a gank boat unless it starts with Cat. Talos would probably kill a skiff, but you are not entitled to win every gank as cheap as possible. I could also point out two things 1) Catalyst could probably use a gun removed so it's not quite so OP as the preferred cheap ship if the Skiff where to be nerfed and 2) Irony meets kettle, one would assume that "emergent" game play would tell you that players would adapt to not get popped because you caused the shift towards the Skiff, adapt and stop whining to CCP to fix a problem you caused Roll. No one pilot's the other ships because they blow up easily no matter how much better they can mine, they still suck in comparison because of you guys.

Tl;dr just use a Talos, big ass glass cannon or find another ship to pop. Don't whine because you cannot figure out a problem you caused as other players adapted to itLol
Nidal Fervor
Doomheim
#103 - 2014-11-18 11:23:47 UTC
Aqriue wrote:
Sounds like a whine about someone who is unable to adapt. No where in this thread did I see a mention of a talos which I can only surmise that a lot of risk averse folks won't fly a gank boat unless it starts with Cat. Talos would probably kill a skiff, but you are not entitled to win every gank as cheap as possible. I could also point out two things 1) Catalyst could probably use a gun removed so it's not quite so OP as the preferred cheap ship if the Skiff where to be nerfed and 2) Irony meets kettle, one would assume that "emergent" game play would tell you that players would adapt to not get popped because you caused the shift towards the Skiff, adapt and stop whining to CCP to fix a problem you caused Roll. No one pilot's the other ships because they blow up easily no matter how much better they can mine, they still suck in comparison because of you guys.

Tl;dr just use a Talos, big ass glass cannon or find another ship to pop. Don't whine because you cannot figure out a problem you caused as other players adapted to itLol


Pure ignorance.

A Talos does a little over twice the DPS of a Catalyst. If it takes 10-15 Catas to kill a skiff then it would take 4-7 Talos. (At a cost of 400 to 700m). That's with T2 guns, without T1 you'd need more Talos.
Jurico Elemenohpe
Flipsid3 Tactics
#104 - 2014-11-18 11:26:40 UTC  |  Edited by: Jurico Elemenohpe
Meilandra Vanderganken wrote:
Drone damage bonus of 50%, yield on par with mackinaw so I heard (dunno if true), speed, capable of insane tank even with mostly yield oriented fits, decent ore bay and I think it had it's sig radius reduced too this year?

Nothing wrong with any of these on their own or several combined but all of them put together on a MINING vessel, yes, I'd say it's pretty goddamn overpowered.

As it stands now, it's a 'get out of gank free (semi)afk'-card that gives good yield. In the spirit of EVE I'd say that it's yield should be by FAR the lowest of all mining barges/exhumers (except it's T1 brother of course). Like 2/3th of a Mack for instance. Then it can keep all it's other bonusses which are still very good. And I do mean a YIELD nerf, not an ore bay nerf since those are easily circumvented by using a hauler, most Skiffs I come across have Orca support anyways so an ore bay nerf would be mostly symbolic.

I like the Skiff, but it should be a low yield mining vessel with very good defense instead of having the best of not both but all worlds.
Probably already covered, but yes it is the same yield.
2 turrets on Mack - 25% bonus. 2+50% = 2.5.
1 turret on Skiff - 150% bonus. 1+150% = 2.5.
However, the Mack has a larger ore bay, thus more isk/hour due to less travel time. But yeah, I agree that maybe the yield should be nerfed a bit. Down to 100%, maybe?
About to edit with math for catalysts/talos and price.

[Catalyst, Gank]
Magnetic Field Stabilizer II
Magnetic Field Stabilizer II
Magnetic Field Stabilizer II

[empty med slot]
[empty med slot]

Light Neutron Blaster II, Void S
Light Neutron Blaster II, Void S
Light Neutron Blaster II, Void S
Light Neutron Blaster II, Void S
Light Neutron Blaster II, Void S
Light Neutron Blaster II, Void S
Light Neutron Blaster II, Void S
Light Neutron Blaster II, Void S

Small Hybrid Burst Aerator II
1249 Volley, assuming pre-prepared in a .5 system (22s react time, I think)
Perfect skills and overheated but no implants, so 1.77554 cycle time.
12.3905966636 volley, can't do .39 of a volley, so 12 volleys. 12*1249 = 14988. So each catalyst does 14988 damage.

[Skiff, Mining]
Mining Laser Upgrade II
Mining Laser Upgrade II
Damage Control II

Adaptive Invulnerability Field II
Adaptive Invulnerability Field II
Adaptive Invulnerability Field II
Medium F-S9 Regolith Shield Induction
Medium Shield Extender II

Strip Miner I

Medium Core Defense Field Extender II
Medium Core Defense Field Extender II

120770 ehp against 50% Kin/Therm.
120770/14988 = 8.05777955698
Of course, you can't have .05 of a catalyst, so 9 catalysts.
According to Evepraisal, 1 catalyst = 9.94m. So 9.94*9 = 89.46m. The skiff costs 229m. So yeah, Catalysts are ISK efficient. On paper, anyway.
Now the Talos math.

[Talos, Gank]
Magnetic Field Stabilizer II
Magnetic Field Stabilizer II
Magnetic Field Stabilizer II
Magnetic Field Stabilizer II
Tracking Enhancer II

Tracking Computer II, Tracking Speed Script
Tracking Computer II, Tracking Speed Script
Tracking Computer II, Tracking Speed Script
Tracking Computer II, Tracking Speed Script

Neutron Blaster Cannon II, Void L
Neutron Blaster Cannon II, Void L
Neutron Blaster Cannon II, Void L
Neutron Blaster Cannon II, Void L
Neutron Blaster Cannon II, Void L
Neutron Blaster Cannon II, Void L
Neutron Blaster Cannon II, Void L
Neutron Blaster Cannon II, Void L

Medium Hybrid Burst Aerator II
6420 Volley, 3.95051 cycle time. 22/3.95051 = 5.56890123047. So 5 volleys. 6420*5 = 32100 damage per Talos.
120770/32100 = 3.76230529595.
4 Talos.
Each Talos is 117.57m. 117.57*4 = 470.28m
Not very ISK efficient.

So there we have it. On paper, the gankers using Catalysts still end up more isk efficient than the miners. using Talos', however, they do not.
Aqriue
Center for Advanced Studies
Gallente Federation
#105 - 2014-11-18 13:17:45 UTC  |  Edited by: Aqriue
Nidal Fervor wrote:


Pure ignorance.

A Talos does a little over twice the DPS of a Catalyst. If it takes 10-15 Catas to kill a skiff then it would take 4-7 Talos. (At a cost of 400 to 700m). That's with T2 guns, without T1 you'd need more Talos.

On both our parts, thought that beast could do more. Again, you are not entitled to fly and die cheap vs your target. You fly cheap to avoid loss, they fly expensive because of you to protect themselves while the best miners with zero tank could mine more. So grow a pair, drop your nuts, face the damn wall and take a loss...they could be making more way isk in the hulk or you take a massive loss to destroy their skiff. Forget the efficiency or risk the risk, remember they are flying that ship because of you.
Black Pedro
Mine.
#106 - 2014-11-18 13:51:41 UTC
Aqriue wrote:
On both our parts, thought that beast could do more. Again, you are not entitled to fly and die cheap vs your target. You fly cheap to avoid loss, they fly expensive because of you to protect themselves while the best miners with zero tank could mine more. So grow a pair, drop your nuts, face the damn wall and take a loss...they could be making more way isk in the hulk or you take a massive loss to destroy their skiff. Forget the efficiency or risk the risk, remember they are flying that ship because of you.

That's actually kind of the point of this thread - you are describing how it should be but not how it actually is. The yield of the Skiff is practically the same as the Mackinaw and a little less (~15%? depending on fitting) than the Hulk.

The Hulk should mine much more than the Skiff to make there be a choice, but that isn't the case right now. Buff one, nerf the other or whatever, but some tweaks seem to be necessary.

Looking at the exhumers as they currently are, can you honestly recommend to a new miner in your corp to fly anything other than a Skiff in highsec?

The 8 Golden Rules of Eve

Why Do They Gank?
La Nariz
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#107 - 2014-11-18 13:53:07 UTC
Remove auto repeat from mining equipment, remove ewar from concord and increase concord response times for each sec by 10s. All problems solved.

This post was loving crafted by a member of the Official GoonWaffe recruitment team. Improve the forums, support this idea: https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&find=unread&t=345133
Fenix Neutrino
Viziam
Amarr Empire
#108 - 2014-11-18 14:31:42 UTC  |  Edited by: Fenix Neutrino
I have now gone through tons of forum posts since forever it feels.

As soon as a miner get tank all gankers yell and cries.
Why is that?
You could adapt in the same way all miners have when they are nerfed etc.

Nerf the tank and introduce a stackable GCC like the jump fatigue then it will be fair game again.
As it is now there is no what so ever punishment for being concorded over and over and over again forver and EVER...

Acting like a criminal over and over again should have higher punishment everytime until some time have gone since the last criminal act.

Gankers shouldn't be able to gank.die, repeat forever with no punishment.
Losing sec status is no punishment if you don't care about that and pod jumping in HS so a stackable GCC is the only solution if you want to nerf miners more than they are today.

/Fenix
Thomas Mayaki
Perkone
Caldari State
#109 - 2014-11-18 14:34:11 UTC
When a skiff can be taken out by a handful of cheap catalysts you realise its not the skiff which is overpowered but the catalyst.
Catalysts just are too effective at what they do for their cost.
Jurico Elemenohpe
Flipsid3 Tactics
#110 - 2014-11-18 14:59:25 UTC  |  Edited by: Jurico Elemenohpe
Black Pedro wrote:
Aqriue wrote:
On both our parts, thought that beast could do more. Again, you are not entitled to fly and die cheap vs your target. You fly cheap to avoid loss, they fly expensive because of you to protect themselves while the best miners with zero tank could mine more. So grow a pair, drop your nuts, face the damn wall and take a loss...they could be making more way isk in the hulk or you take a massive loss to destroy their skiff. Forget the efficiency or risk the risk, remember they are flying that ship because of you.

That's actually kind of the point of this thread - you are describing how it should be but not how it actually is. The yield of the Skiff is practically the same as the Mackinaw and a little less (~15%? depending on fitting) than the Hulk.

The Hulk should mine much more than the Skiff to make there be a choice, but that isn't the case right now. Buff one, nerf the other or whatever, but some tweaks seem to be necessary.

Looking at the exhumers as they currently are, can you honestly recommend to a new miner in your corp to fly anything other than a Skiff in highsec?
My impression was that the ships were made with an idea in mind.
Hulk - Fleet miner. Doesn't really matter where it mines, or that it has a small orehold because it should have 3rd part protection (fleet defense) and someone to gather the ore.
Mackinaw - Solo miner. Should be mining in relatively secure space, because it's tank + damage is good enough for non capsuleers, but a capsuleer wouldn't have much trouble destroying one.
Skiff - Should be used in territory where chances of being attacked aren't very low and you will be paying attention anyway, because its tank is great but it can't stay out for as long as a Mackinaw.

Also, ISK/hour numbers. Assuming 1DC2 and the rest of the lows are MLU2s, no implants, rigs or drones, perfect skills, no boosts and mining Kernite and selling it at Amarr Buy prices. 2 minute round trip (no hauler). T1 strip miners on barges/exhumers, t2 miners on Venture/Prospect. T1 upgrades on Prospect. T2 tank mods except where meta is better because you can fit more. T1 rigs on the t1 ships except venture/prospect. Ship/fit prices based on Jita.

Ship Name - Ƶisk/hour - EHP assuming maximum tankability! - ISK/EHP spent on hull+fit. (so 10,000,000 isk for 5000 EHP = 10000000/5000 = 2000isk/ehp)
Venture - Ƶ4,442,368 - 7,768 - 2525
Prospect - Ƶ5,902,447 - 9,831 - 3549
Covetor - Ƶ9,738,874 - 14,798 - 2970
Retriever - Ƶ9,785,426 - 18,964 - 2216
Procurer - Ƶ8,392,378 - 60,748 - 542
Hulk - Ƶ11,546,404 - 22,930 - 10404
Mackinaw - Ƶ10,960,711 - 27,984 - 8305
Skiff - Ƶ10,203,557 - 118,079 - 1879

Also, about your last point.. Procurer works fine as well :)
E: Spelling Oops
Jurico Elemenohpe
Flipsid3 Tactics
#111 - 2014-11-18 15:03:42 UTC  |  Edited by: Jurico Elemenohpe
Thomas Mayaki wrote:
When a skiff can be taken out by a handful of cheap catalysts you realise its not the skiff which is overpowered but the catalyst.
Catalysts just are too effective at what they do for their cost.
Can't argue with the fact that it may be OP. But I don't think it's purely the ship. Blasters are (as everyone knows because vindicator facemelting all the ships with 99% lolwebbing and 2k+ dps) just plain super strong. Even the smalls. But the reason the catalyst is so good with blasters is because it follows the ideology of all gank no tank.
Fenix Neutrino wrote:
I have now gone through tons of forum posts since forever it feels.

As soon as a miner get tank all gankers yell and cries.
Why is that?
You could adapt in the same way all miners have when they are nerfed etc.

Nerf the tank and introduce a stackable GCC like the jump fatigue then it will be fair game again.
As it is now there is no what so ever punishment for being concorded over and over and over again forver and EVER...

Acting like a criminal over and over again should have higher punishment everytime until some time have gone since the last criminal act.

Gankers shouldn't be able to gank.die, repeat forever with no punishment.
Losing sec status is no punishment if you don't care about that and pod jumping in HS so a stackable GCC is the only solution if you want to nerf miners more than they are today.

/Fenix
I don't remember mining nerfs. Then again I only started reading dev blogs recently. Also, gankers don't need to adapt. Catalysts are still cost efficient against Skiffs.
Fenix Neutrino
Viziam
Amarr Empire
#112 - 2014-11-18 15:38:55 UTC
Jurico Elemenohpe wrote:
Thomas Mayaki wrote:
When a skiff can be taken out by a handful of cheap catalysts you realise its not the skiff which is overpowered but the catalyst.
Catalysts just are too effective at what they do for their cost.
Can't argue with the fact that it may be OP. But I don't think it's purely the ship. Blasters are (as everyone knows because vindicator facemelting all the ships with 99% lolwebbing and 2k+ dps) just plain super strong. Even the smalls. But the reason the catalyst is so good with blasters is because it follows the ideology of all gank no tank.
Fenix Neutrino wrote:
I have now gone through tons of forum posts since forever it feels.

As soon as a miner get tank all gankers yell and cries.
Why is that?
You could adapt in the same way all miners have when they are nerfed etc.

Nerf the tank and introduce a stackable GCC like the jump fatigue then it will be fair game again.
As it is now there is no what so ever punishment for being concorded over and over and over again forver and EVER...

Acting like a criminal over and over again should have higher punishment everytime until some time have gone since the last criminal act.

Gankers shouldn't be able to gank.die, repeat forever with no punishment.
Losing sec status is no punishment if you don't care about that and pod jumping in HS so a stackable GCC is the only solution if you want to nerf miners more than they are today.

/Fenix
I don't remember mining nerfs. Then again I only started reading dev blogs recently. Also, gankers don't need to adapt. Catalysts are still cost efficient against Skiffs.


What I did mean with adapt is that every player needs to adapt or they leave EVE ;)
I'm to new to know much about any nerfs so that was wrong from me to say that miners are nerfed today...

But I still stand with the stackable GCC that should work as the newly introduced jump fatigue.
With that it will be more fair since gankers need to pick victim instead as of now, mass gank everything they see.
It's not fair that someone can repeat criminal activity with the tiny punishment that they get today.
It's like the movie "Live, die, repeat" except that they "Gank, die, repeat" infinite ;)
ForTheEmpire2014
Doomheim
#113 - 2014-11-18 15:43:27 UTC
My oh My, I just love this thread!!

I could tell you a number of ways to deal with the Skiff...

but I won't.
Cool

PS. crying about it won't kill it, tears just buff the ehpLol
Jurico Elemenohpe
Flipsid3 Tactics
#114 - 2014-11-18 15:48:03 UTC  |  Edited by: Jurico Elemenohpe
Fenix Neutrino wrote:
Jurico Elemenohpe wrote:
Thomas Mayaki wrote:
When a skiff can be taken out by a handful of cheap catalysts you realise its not the skiff which is overpowered but the catalyst.
Catalysts just are too effective at what they do for their cost.
Can't argue with the fact that it may be OP. But I don't think it's purely the ship. Blasters are (as everyone knows because vindicator facemelting all the ships with 99% lolwebbing and 2k+ dps) just plain super strong. Even the smalls. But the reason the catalyst is so good with blasters is because it follows the ideology of all gank no tank.
Fenix Neutrino wrote:
I have now gone through tons of forum posts since forever it feels.

As soon as a miner get tank all gankers yell and cries.
Why is that?
You could adapt in the same way all miners have when they are nerfed etc.

Nerf the tank and introduce a stackable GCC like the jump fatigue then it will be fair game again.
As it is now there is no what so ever punishment for being concorded over and over and over again forver and EVER...

Acting like a criminal over and over again should have higher punishment everytime until some time have gone since the last criminal act.

Gankers shouldn't be able to gank.die, repeat forever with no punishment.
Losing sec status is no punishment if you don't care about that and pod jumping in HS so a stackable GCC is the only solution if you want to nerf miners more than they are today.

/Fenix
I don't remember mining nerfs. Then again I only started reading dev blogs recently. Also, gankers don't need to adapt. Catalysts are still cost efficient against Skiffs.


What I did mean with adapt is that every player needs to adapt or they leave EVE ;)
I'm to new to know much about any nerfs so that was wrong from me to say that miners are nerfed today...

But I still stand with the stackable GCC that should work as the newly introduced jump fatigue.
With that it will be more fair since gankers need to pick victim instead as of now, mass gank everything they see.
It's not fair that someone can repeat criminal activity with the tiny punishment that they get today.
It's like the movie "Live, die, repeat" except that they "Gank, die, repeat" infinite ;)
Oh. Yeah, well there might've been nerfs, who knows.

I could agree with a stackable GCC, except for 1 things - using the same stats as jump fatigue would be a bit too much. And not in lowsec.
Black Pedro
Mine.
#115 - 2014-11-18 15:59:19 UTC
Fenix Neutrino wrote:
ut I still stand with the stackable GCC that should work as the newly introduced jump fatigue.
With that it will be more fair since gankers need to pick victim instead as of now, mass gank everything they see.
It's not fair that someone can repeat criminal activity with the tiny punishment that they get today.
It's like the movie "Live, die, repeat" except that they "Gank, die, repeat" infinite ;)


This is getting off-topic, but of course it is fair that someone can be a criminal in highsec. The whole Crimewatch system with security status, GCCs and other flags, and the faction police are explicitly designed for there to be a "career criminal" profession in highsec. There are plenty of ways to protect yourself from these criminals (the Skiff being a major tool), so I don't see what is unfair about it.

Without criminals, highsec would be a very, very, very boring place, not to mention the effect that would have on the economy.

But just for fun I quickly scanned through all the Skiff losses in the last week (https://zkillboard.com/ship/22546/losses/) and found a total of two suicide ganks (courtesy of CODE.). I'm not sure what that adds to this discussion, but certainly establishes the Skiff as essentially immune to suicide ganking.

The 8 Golden Rules of Eve

Why Do They Gank?
Jurico Elemenohpe
Flipsid3 Tactics
#116 - 2014-11-18 16:01:19 UTC  |  Edited by: Jurico Elemenohpe
Black Pedro wrote:
Fenix Neutrino wrote:
ut I still stand with the stackable GCC that should work as the newly introduced jump fatigue.
With that it will be more fair since gankers need to pick victim instead as of now, mass gank everything they see.
It's not fair that someone can repeat criminal activity with the tiny punishment that they get today.
It's like the movie "Live, die, repeat" except that they "Gank, die, repeat" infinite ;)


This is getting off-topic, but of course it is fair that someone can be a criminal in highsec. The whole Crimewatch system with security status, GCCs and other flags, and the faction police are explicitly designed for there to be a "career criminal" profession in highsec. There are plenty of ways to protect yourself from these criminals (the Skiff being a major tool), so I don't see what is unfair about it.

Without criminals, highsec would be a very, very, very boring place, not to mention the effect that would have on the economy.

But just for fun I quickly scanned through all the Skiff losses in the last week (https://zkillboard.com/ship/22546/losses/) and found a total of two suicide ganks (courtesy of CODE.). I'm not sure what that adds to this discussion, but certainly establishes the Skiff as essentially immune to suicide ganking.
They're not really immune at all. I did the math above, but the thing is that if you can get 9 people together, some of them can probably fly talos/brutix, so it's better to gank freighters than it is skiffs. And you can probably get more, making ganking freighters even easier.
Thanatos Marathon
Moira.
#117 - 2014-11-18 16:03:59 UTC
La Nariz wrote:
Remove auto repeat from mining equipment, remove ewar from concord and increase concord response times for each sec by 10s. All problems solved.


Remove auto-repeat from all the things! No more repeating guns/missile launchers, no more repeating hardeners. Man Mode everywhere!

JUSTK is recruiting
La Nariz
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#118 - 2014-11-18 16:09:51 UTC
Thanatos Marathon wrote:
La Nariz wrote:
Remove auto repeat from mining equipment, remove ewar from concord and increase concord response times for each sec by 10s. All problems solved.


Remove auto-repeat from all the things! No more repeating guns/missile launchers, no more repeating hardeners. Man Mode everywhere!


Does that mean the person that can click the most buttons has more "skill?" Also ahahahahahahahaha at the rest of the highsec hypocrites pouring into the thread.

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Shiloh Templeton
Cheyenne HET Co
#119 - 2014-11-18 16:19:02 UTC
Nidal Fervor wrote:
Aqriue wrote:
Tl;dr just use a Talos, big ass glass cannon or find another ship to pop.
A Talos does a little over twice the DPS of a Catalyst. If it takes 10-15 Catas to kill a skiff then it would take 4-7 Talos. (At a cost of 400 to 700m). That's with T2 guns, without T1 you'd need more Talos.
This seems overstated so I went through KB data for exhumer kills this month in high sec:

- The 10 most recent skiff kills are wardecs. All of the kills were 2-4 attackers. All of the skiffs had 3 MLU in the lows (No DC) and most did not have full tank in the mids or tanking rigs. Avg damage taken: 24.5K ; Max damage taken: 29.9K

This may be the average skiff profile since tank isn't a problem for a wardec and targets should be on guard.

Conference Elite data which has 223 exhumer kills MTD in Novemenber.

Hulk: most recent 10 kills: Avg damage taken - 8k
Mack: most recent 10 kills: Avg damage taken - 10k
Skiff: only 4 kills MTD: Avg damage taken - 27k (6-8 cats were used for each)


tl,dr: Even if miners aren't tanking, it's not worth ganking skiffs for the isk/effort when hulks and macks are so plentiful and can be taken by two cats. It even looks like a Mack will be left alone if he uses some low slots for tank.


Perhaps Code can provide more data about what they see when their scout is scanning for targets.





Black Pedro
Mine.
#120 - 2014-11-18 16:19:42 UTC
Jurico Elemenohpe wrote:
They're not really immune at all. I did the math above, but the thing is that if you can get 9 people together, some of them can probably fly talos/brutix, so it's better to gank freighters than it is skiffs. And you can probably get more, making ganking freighters even easier.


Of course I didn't mean they are literally immune - I mean Skiff's have less EHP than freighters and they get ganked semi-regularly. But of all the thousands of Skiffs in space last week, only two of them were destroyed by suicide gank (compared to the dozens of Hulks and Mackinaws killed each day) meaning that the odds of a random gank are essentially 0. If you are worried at all about getting suicide ganked, a Skiff solves your problem.

I am not even saying that is a bad thing. I just wonder if such immunity to attack should come with the same or similar yield to the other two exhumers.

The 8 Golden Rules of Eve

Why Do They Gank?