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Are Skiffs overpowered ? Discuss.......
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Bethan Le Troix
Krusual Investigation Agency
#1 - 2014-11-16 17:22:47 UTC
Are Skiffs overpowered insofar as given a certain scenario they are too difficult to move on or destroy Question

I will portray a scenario and follow up with some comment and questions associated with it:

We are in a 0.6 system. There is a probable single or multiple ISBoxer controlled fleet of 18 ships comprising a Charon, Orca, Cyclone, and 15 Skiffs. They are believed to be only fluent in Russian so communication in chat channel may be problematic but using EVE mail with google translate assistance would be possible. They are using one or more MTU's to assist in collection of the ore being mined. All members of the fleet are in NPC corporations so a wardec cannot be used to destroy or disperse them.

They appear to be feeling invincible as a cursory ship scan revealed they are using modules such as ORE miner which appear to sell for about 400 million ISK each. Further intel collection will probably reveal more high value module use.

Nevertheless for small operations such as [KRUSA] these characters are proving a hard nut to crack. I am coming from a T2 fit Gallente destroyer & cruiser basis . A single T2 dessie or even a T2 Thorax isn't going to take down a Skiff with some defences, or is it? I have tried the 'James315' cruiser 'bumping' fit in a Thorax with a 10MN but this doesn't seem to move them very far at all. Do I need to approach/hit them from a certain direction ?

I cannot fit a standard 100MN on a cruiser because of lack of powergrid even with decent skills. So I am left with either sourcing a COSMOS 100MN which may be tricky or skilling up to a strategic cruiser or a battleship. Actually thinking now the battleship is probably my next option...... . Other than that I am considering attacking their MTU's to force a fight or jet can theft.

So in short I propose that the Skiff is currently overpowered and with the above scenario in place which is I daresay not uncommon. It's good for CCPs bank balance it is dare I say it 'game-breaking'. Ships have to be able to be destroyed in New Eden and this is disrupting the balance.

I open this out for discussion.

PS If others are interested in visiting destruction upon these 18 accounts I can pass on intel which I am currently collating while trying to move them on.
Tear Jar
New Order Logistics
CODE.
#2 - 2014-11-16 17:28:13 UTC  |  Edited by: Tear Jar
Here is the thing. Skiffs are overpowered in highsec. They were before they got a yield tank and damage buff. flying a skiff makes you extremely safe. Being able to afk mine with no situational awareness is extremely powerful.

However, most miners are lazy and bad. As such, skiffs are extremely underutilized. CCP is not going to nerf them until they become extremely popular, which would require miners to stop being lazy and bad(the New Order has done a lot to encourage skiff use).
Josef Djugashvilis
#3 - 2014-11-16 18:17:40 UTC
Tear Jar wrote:
Here is the thing. Skiffs are overpowered in highsec. They were before they got a yield tank and damage buff. flying a skiff makes you extremely safe. Being able to afk mine with no situational awareness is extremely powerful.

However, most miners are lazy and bad. As such, skiffs are extremely underutilized. CCP is not going to need them until they become extremely popular, which would require miners to stop being lazy and bad(the New Order has done a lot to encourage skiff use).


I notice that you have started a thread in GD to continue trolling.

Please stop.

This is not a signature.
Dracvlad
Taishi Combine
Astral Alliance
#4 - 2014-11-16 18:30:20 UTC
Well there is nothing wrong with having a target to aim for, they are made strong to be able to operate in 0.0, however rest assured that only people who want to be hard to kill use them, most people are easy to gank. Personally I like them very much and will actually mine every so often when I cannot be bothered to do anything else, the key thing is because I can use a ship with a tank, and no I do not mine AFK because I don't like being an easy kill.

When the going gets tough the Gankers get their CSM rep to change mechanics in their favour.

Blocked: Teckos Pech, Sonya Corvinus, baltec1, Shae Tadaruwa, Wander Prian, Daichi Yamato, Jonah Gravenstein, Merin Ryskin, Linus Gorp
Black Pedro
Mine.
#5 - 2014-11-16 20:59:47 UTC
Tear Jar wrote:
Here is the thing. Skiffs are overpowered in highsec. They were before they got a yield tank and damage buff. flying a skiff makes you extremely safe. Being able to afk mine with no situational awareness is extremely powerful.


I concur. Skiffs are a little too powerful now. I agree there should be a ship that is highly resistant to highsec gankers, but as it is, the yield of the Skiff is not that much lower than a Mackinaw making the choice (to those paying attention) obvious.

After all these buffs to the Skiff, there really is no reason to choose anything else in highsec, especially for the AFK miner. Buff the yield of the Hulk/Mack or nerf that of the Skiff to bring things back in line.

But to really fix things we also need to get people out of NPC corps to prevent such hiding from wardecs, as well as giving mining some more active game play so that multiboxing Skiffs in highsec is no longer the optimal strategy for being a profitable miner in this game.

The 8 Golden Rules of Eve

Why Do They Gank?
Kaarous Aldurald
Black Hydra Consortium.
#6 - 2014-11-16 21:19:25 UTC
For their incredible tank, they don't pay much in terms of yield, that's for sure.

"Verily, I have often laughed at the weaklings who thought themselves good because they had no claws."

One of ours, ten of theirs.

Best Meltdown Ever.
La Rynx
School of Applied Knowledge
Caldari State
#7 - 2014-11-16 21:33:48 UTC
Wanna shoot skiffs?
Just leave hisec you carebears!

Skiffs where buffed because guys like you, so no need for crying ganker tears.
Bear

What now codies always say miner should do more to not be ganked and now when they do...
You are crying for mama?

As said: Leave hisec and grow some hair...
Twisted

Atomic Virulent : "You can't spell DOUCHE. without CODE."
Zedutchman
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#8 - 2014-11-16 22:23:11 UTC  |  Edited by: Zedutchman
La Rynx wrote:
Wanna shoot skiffs?
Just leave hisec you carebears!

Skiffs where buffed because guys like you, so no need for crying ganker tears.
Bear

What now codies always say miner should do more to not be ganked and now when they do...
You are crying for mama?

As said: Leave hisec and grow some hair...
Twisted




.... Why... Nell sec ores are worth nothing and low-sec has been a death trap for a decade.


I feel your pain though OP... I saw a VERY similar group(prolly the same guy) in an ice belt the other day with 15 skiffs and Orca and a hauler in perfect formation cruising slowing through and devouring everything....


And i thought.... You know for ALL the times i've been suicide ganked.. those CODE B******* are never around when you need them.
McChicken Combo HalfMayo
The Happy Meal
#9 - 2014-11-16 23:12:32 UTC
Pointing out that a ship has too much yield is now trolling in the eyes of the carebears. Roll

Eventually just logging in will be trolling, and they'll ask CCP to nerf that somehow too.

There are all our dominion

Gate camps: "Its like the lowsec watercooler, just with explosions and boose" - Ralph King-Griffin
Ima Wreckyou
The Conference Elite
Safety.
#10 - 2014-11-16 23:26:45 UTC
While I agree that the Skiff is overpowered, I have to point out that ganking is not the only weapon against them.

Bumping, while not really effective against a single Skiff is highly effective against a fleet of them. They often rely on an Orcas fleet hangar to move their Ore to the Freighter. Bump the Orca away with a 100MN MWD Cruiser and you will shutdown their complete operation. It's extremely satisfactory to shutdown a fleet of 10+ ships with just one cruiser.

Evil RatKid
Bethan Le Troix
Krusual Investigation Agency
#11 - 2014-11-16 23:37:15 UTC
Yes I am going to use 'bumping' to get them to move elsewhere. I had a brain block or something earlier and now realise I can probably use a Brutix as that will have more powergrid so I can fit a 100MN on it. I didn't think about just 'bumping' the Orca far away. That will be much easier.
CODE Agent AC
The Conference Elite
Safety.
#12 - 2014-11-17 00:20:23 UTC
Ima Wreckyou wrote:
While I agree that the Skiff is overpowered, I have to point out that ganking is not the only weapon against them.

Bumping, while not really effective against a single Skiff is highly effective against a fleet of them. They often rely on an Orcas fleet hangar to move their Ore to the Freighter. Bump the Orca away with a 100MN MWD Cruiser and you will shutdown their complete operation. It's extremely satisfactory to shutdown a fleet of 10+ ships with just one cruiser.


Skiff bumping an ice mining OP always makes me happy.

The Artist Formerly Known As AC. 

The terminal end of the digestive system. 

The Best CSM Candidate
Sabriz Adoudel
Move along there is nothing here
#13 - 2014-11-17 00:23:36 UTC
Confirming that bumping Skiffs is very effective if the Skiff pilot is AFK.

If they aren't AFK, they should be using a Hulk instead.

I support the New Order and CODE. alliance. www.minerbumping.com
Hannibal Carlisle
Relapse Anonymous
Sedition.
#14 - 2014-11-17 01:18:55 UTC
As a few others noted, bumping the orca is the key. The skiffs generally orbit the orca so 3-4 good bumps on the orca pretty much ends it all together.
Michael Ruckert
Hohere Kavallerie-Kommando
#15 - 2014-11-17 01:21:47 UTC
Position a Skiff or Procurer right up against ice or roid. Proceed to mine. Note what happens when bumping is attempted. Nice having that ice or roid close for a bump. Blink

"No matter how well you perform there's always somebody of intelligent opinion who thinks it's lousy." - Laurence Olivier
CODE Agent AC
The Conference Elite
Safety.
#16 - 2014-11-17 01:57:04 UTC
Hannibal Carlisle wrote:
As a few others noted, bumping the orca is the key. The skiffs generally orbit the orca so 3-4 good bumps on the orca pretty much ends it all together.



I call this event 'Eve-Bowling'

The Artist Formerly Known As AC. 

The terminal end of the digestive system. 

The Best CSM Candidate
Sabriz Adoudel
Move along there is nothing here
#17 - 2014-11-17 05:01:18 UTC
Hannibal Carlisle wrote:
As a few others noted, bumping the orca is the key. The skiffs generally orbit the orca so 3-4 good bumps on the orca pretty much ends it all together.


Ganking the Orca should also be considered. It sends a very clear message to the Skiff pilots.

I support the New Order and CODE. alliance. www.minerbumping.com
Jurico Elemenohpe
Flipsid3 Tactics
#18 - 2014-11-17 06:00:47 UTC
In fleet mining, the Skiff is actually better than the Mackinaw.
Their yield is equal, but in fleet mining, there is no travel time for the ships, so the larger hold of the Mackinaw is completely useless, which is why the Skiff is super popular. It's also probably better than the hulk in fleet mining, because of the fact it'll rarely get ganked, so your "effective isk/hour" is better. I think.. I'm not sure how many hours a hulk needs to mine to cover the cost of itself.
Ria Nieyli
Nieyli Enterprises
SL33PERS
#19 - 2014-11-17 07:47:01 UTC
So, a single person can not deal with a congregation of eighteen players? Seems to be working as intended. HTFU.
Josef Djugashvilis
#20 - 2014-11-17 07:47:51 UTC
The Skiff is not overpowerd, the ganker is under-skilled.

This is not a signature.
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