These forums have been archived and are now read-only.

The new forums are live and can be found at https://forums.eveonline.com/

EVE General Discussion

 
  • Topic is locked indefinitely.
 

Save Our Clones Initiative.

First post First post First post
Author
Previous Topic Next Topic
Mocam
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#41 - 2014-11-15 10:50:11 UTC
Clueless Noobness wrote:
This change may possibly result in effectively closing off low sec systems with medical facilities. What good will it do to kill 3 or 4 times each of the horde of crap frigates attacking you when they show back up 45 seconds later with almost zero expense to their side. There is being more friendly to new players and then there is changing the game to arcade mode. This feels like a step towards the latter. I hope the actual implementation will prove me wrong.


...

So let me get this straight.

What good is it to wrack up a lot of kills on targets coming out repeatedly to get blown up in lowsec...

And this will shut it down? Hell that sounds more like a reason for many to move there if this happens. Mass action with kill mails and losses? ...

/tilt on the overall logic there.
Challus Mercer
Viziam
Amarr Empire
#42 - 2014-11-15 10:58:19 UTC
I don't support the topic starter. Clones must go. They doesn't add any interesting gameplay. It's just a routine operation that you have to do each time after pod was killed. I would say 99% of players dont forget it and have never lost SP because of it. Clone costs have no sense as well, because they punish people with lot SP for dying, but to loose a ship is already a good punishment.
lost packet
Alpha Flight
#43 - 2014-11-15 11:12:24 UTC
Altrue wrote:
So basically some people are complaining about the removal of clone costs? Shocked

What's wrong with you??


This. /me waves at clone.

Alpha Flight are recruiting pilots | Almost Broken are recruiting corporations
lost packet
Alpha Flight
#44 - 2014-11-15 11:20:40 UTC
Zappity wrote:
Definitely WTB pod interdiction nullification. If we're talking choices, there is currently no choice about getting podded in 0.0. It just discourages implant use for no good reason.

Edit: also WTB Tags4Standings as discussed in the CSM9 minutes.


Attrbiute boost, engineering or gunnery implants? There's plenty of choice on fitting implants for good reasons as well as non good reasons I guess :P

Alpha Flight are recruiting pilots | Almost Broken are recruiting corporations
Ama Scelesta
#45 - 2014-11-15 11:31:11 UTC
Altrue wrote:
So basically some people are complaining about the removal of clone costs? Shocked

What's wrong with you??


They have the feels. They can't justify the necessity of the system in a rational way. They do have emotional connection to the issue though and the change is bringing up unwanted feelings they can't exactly put in to words to explain to others. Therefore they feel something negative is happening and try to oppose it by any passing argument, that has even a minuscule superficial connection to the issue. Problem being their opposition has very little rational basis, so they struggle to bring up anything that will stand up to objective scrutiny.
Xeris Takier
Court of Evermore
#46 - 2014-11-15 13:19:17 UTC
13kr1d1 wrote:
Clones and clone costs have always been a part of Eve. They make sense in the scope of the game. They aren't a problem for anyone to pay off, ever. Anyone who can fly a T3 can pay off medical clones. Why would the empires simply hand out clones for free just cause of feels?

First it was the removal of needed standings for certain game mechanics, now it's clone costs. If we don't halt this now, it'll be learning implants gone next, and then standings will probably go away altogether. Why is the original vision of Eve being torn apart? It was fine for 10 years.

Let's not allow this Rhea patch to go through. Post here to save our clones.



I fully Agree... it is Sad that Eve which has always been the world to be in if you had a brain, should start "dumbing themselves down" this is the start to the slippery slope to wow mentality. Please voice your concern.
Commissar Kate
Kesukka
#47 - 2014-11-15 13:42:26 UTC
I like cake....

And free clones.

Now I can spend more ISK on clothes \o/

-k8

My Fanclub
handige harrie
Vereenigde Handels Compagnie
#48 - 2014-11-15 13:44:48 UTC
I think that clones do have a reason to be in the game, but not in the way they are. It would be a much more interesting choice to have different clone grades, salvaged by players from I don't know what and have them support different Implant and/or Hardwire levels and/or replace the Omega Implants with different Clonetypes.

So to get the maximum out of your high end slaves, you'll need a compatible body

Baddest poster ever
Jur Tissant
Garoun Investment Bank
Gallente Federation
#49 - 2014-11-15 13:46:29 UTC  |  Edited by: Jur Tissant
No, consequences in EVE should come because you took a risky short route through low-sec or mined in a high-population ice belt. Consequences should not be the result of forgetting to file the right paperwork - especially not at the cost of weeks of training.

There's a fairly simple way to tell if a feature should be kept. We can imagine that EVE never had clone grades or skill point loss, until CCP announces that in Rhea, you will have to buy new clones when you are killed and will lose skill points if you don't have a good enough clone. Do you think this change would be well-received by the community? I don't - I think we would see it as a pointless mechanic, if not a slightly merciless one.

Tradition is no reason to keep a game mechanic and your slippery slope argument is rather unconvincing.
Ria Nieyli
Nieyli Enterprises
SL33PERS
#50 - 2014-11-15 13:46:56 UTC
Commissar Kate wrote:
Now I must spend more ISK on clothes \o/


Corrected.
Carmen Electra
AlcoDOTTE
Test Alliance Please Ignore
#51 - 2014-11-15 13:52:11 UTC
Rhea patch looks excellent. +1 for Rhea.

Bacon makes us stronger
Ria Nieyli
Nieyli Enterprises
SL33PERS
#52 - 2014-11-15 13:53:47 UTC
Carmen Electra wrote:
Ria patch looks excellent. +1 for Ria.


Aw, you shouldn't have.
Black Pedro
Mine.
#53 - 2014-11-15 13:54:06 UTC
I agree that the current clone system isn't especially compelling game play.

Still, I can't help but wonder if it wouldn't be better to wait to remove the current system until this "new and improved" clone system is ready. Removing it now with nothing in its place will just train players to treat clones as valueless and cause yet another period of re-adjustment if/when a new system is implemented.

The 8 Golden Rules of Eve

Why Do They Gank?
Carmen Electra
AlcoDOTTE
Test Alliance Please Ignore
#54 - 2014-11-15 13:56:22 UTC
Zappity wrote:
Definitely WTB pod interdiction nullification. If we're talking choices, there is currently no choice about getting podded in 0.0. It just discourages implant use for no good reason.

Edit: also WTB Tags4Standings as discussed in the CSM9 minutes.

This is an excellent idea that deserves to be seen outside of this awful thread.

Bacon makes us stronger
Commissar Kate
Kesukka
#55 - 2014-11-15 13:57:18 UTC
Also OP

Why don't you just wait and see what CCP has in store for clones in the near future. It might just actually be better then what we have right now.

-k8

My Fanclub
Carmen Electra
AlcoDOTTE
Test Alliance Please Ignore
#56 - 2014-11-15 13:59:03 UTC
Ria Nieyli wrote:
Carmen Electra wrote:
Ria patch looks excellent. +1 for Ria.


Aw, you shouldn't have.

Oh, you!

Bacon makes us stronger
Jean Luc Lemmont
Carebears on Fire
#57 - 2014-11-15 14:46:34 UTC
CCP Darwin wrote:
13kr1d1 wrote:
Unezka Turigahl wrote:
Most games have one death and it is meaningless. Eve has two deaths that are both full loot-loss deaths with the possibility for a third XP death if you're forgetful. It stupid. It adds nothing. Good riddance.

And no, I've never personally lost XP. I just know stupid when I see it.


So you don't like the core of Eve gameplay. Don't wander into lowsec, you may not enjoy it.


With the caveat that I'm not a game designer, I do understand the reasoning and I'll share it.

The fundamental issue is that clone grades don't add a choice. When you are pod killed, you aren't presented with an interesting question -- "Should I upgrade my pod? How much should I upgrade it?"

Instead, you either upgrade, and protect your skill points against an inevitable further pod kill, or you don't, and suffer. One choice is so incredibly better than the other that you'll always pick it, unless you happen to forget.

Good game design isn't about punishing mere forgetfulness. It should be about presenting a meaningful choice to a player and letting them pick which way to go, with benefits to offset risk. Clone upgrade costs just don't do that -- they present a choice for which there's only one right answer.


/thread

Will I get banned for boxing!?!?!

This thread has degenerated to the point it's become like two bald men fighting over a comb. -- Doc Fury

It's bonuses, not boni, you cretins.
Rowells
Blackwater USA Inc.
Pandemic Horde
#58 - 2014-11-15 14:47:07 UTC
handige harrie wrote:
So to get the maximum out of your high end slaves, you'll need a compatible body

I'm just gonna take out the context real quick....and there.

Nice and dirty
Tolkenmoon
Hogan's Heroes
#59 - 2014-11-15 15:06:26 UTC
Eve is turning into a theme park, clones are going the way of the skill que, they said it would never be longer than a 24hour slot so you could learn all the small skills without having to set the alarm clock. Yes you could put a long skill in at the end to make it longer. They caved in and made it as long as you want.

This game really is getting easy, befor long it will be wow in space.
Azda Ja
Native Freshfood
Minmatar Republic
#60 - 2014-11-15 15:14:19 UTC
Tolkenmoon wrote:
Eve is turning into a theme park, clones are going the way of the skill que, they said it would never be longer than a 24hour slot so you could learn all the small skills without having to set the alarm clock. Yes you could put a long skill in at the end to make it longer. They caved in and made it as long as you want.

This game really is getting easy, befor long it will be wow in space.


Quality of life improvements != making the game a themepark.

Grrr.