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Save Our Clones Initiative.

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Mharius Skjem
Guardians of the Underworld
#461 - 2014-11-22 22:26:17 UTC
Solops Crendraven wrote:
Mharius Skjem wrote:
It would be nice if we had some further comments on this from CCP as to the value of our feedback thus far.

I'm not opposed to a change of game mechanic around clones as long as death hurts you in some way or another.

After all if i fire some projectile ammo through your pod forcing your consciousness to wake up in a new body light years away in an instant, iI'd say that it was the perfect representation of a nasty experience...

to make that meaninglessness is in opposition to the very core of the values of Eve Online and it's community.

I don't want to see the equivalent of cod re spawn points being set up in our beautiful sandbox.

Make death meaningful, I don't care how CCP do it, let death keep its sting.
Why Make Death Meaningful? Hows that going to Grow our Player base? casual Players dont care about Death They just want to Log in Respawn! and Blow up ships. respawn! Blow up some ships. Respawn blow up some ships so on and log out Que up for a week in skills and unlock and come back and repeat the process again without losing there rent money the core mechanics cater only to Hardcore Players. thats why these changes are a good thing.


If that's the type of player you want to attract to Eve then I personally think that you are wrong for Eve.

A recovering btter vet,  with a fresh toon and a determination to like everything that CCP does to Eve...

Don't take me too seriously though, I like to tease a bit on the forums, but that's only because I love you...
Solops Crendraven
University of Caille
Gallente Federation
#462 - 2014-11-22 22:32:42 UTC  |  Edited by: Solops Crendraven
Mharius Skjem wrote:
Solops Crendraven wrote:
Mharius Skjem wrote:
It would be nice if we had some further comments on this from CCP as to the value of our feedback thus far.

I'm not opposed to a change of game mechanic around clones as long as death hurts you in some way or another.

After all if i fire some projectile ammo through your pod forcing your consciousness to wake up in a new body light years away in an instant, iI'd say that it was the perfect representation of a nasty experience...

to make that meaninglessness is in opposition to the very core of the values of Eve Online and it's community.

I don't want to see the equivalent of cod re spawn points being set up in our beautiful sandbox.

Make death meaningful, I don't care how CCP do it, let death keep its sting.
Why Make Death Meaningful? Hows that going to Grow our Player base? casual Players dont care about Death They just want to Log in Respawn! and Blow up ships. respawn! Blow up some ships. Respawn blow up some ships so on and log out Que up for a week in skills and unlock and come back and repeat the process again without losing there rent money the core mechanics cater only to Hardcore Players. thats why these changes are a good thing.


If that's the type of player you want to attract to Eve then I personally think that you are wrong for Eve.

Sounds Elitist If thats what CCP wants to do( Alienate Gamers) all the power to them however the playerbase wont grow and will only appeal to a very small niche market. Note: Eve Online needs a Solo Q Button and Clones Should Respawn for Free and a Mini Map would be nice.Blink

Moving To Las Vegas Watch Me Play Poker! enter link description here
Mharius Skjem
Guardians of the Underworld
#463 - 2014-11-22 23:07:32 UTC
Solops Crendraven wrote:
Mharius Skjem wrote:
Solops Crendraven wrote:
Mharius Skjem wrote:
It would be nice if we had some further comments on this from CCP as to the value of our feedback thus far.

I'm not opposed to a change of game mechanic around clones as long as death hurts you in some way or another.

After all if i fire some projectile ammo through your pod forcing your consciousness to wake up in a new body light years away in an instant, iI'd say that it was the perfect representation of a nasty experience...

to make that meaninglessness is in opposition to the very core of the values of Eve Online and it's community.

I don't want to see the equivalent of cod re spawn points being set up in our beautiful sandbox.

Make death meaningful, I don't care how CCP do it, let death keep its sting.
Why Make Death Meaningful? Hows that going to Grow our Player base? casual Players dont care about Death They just want to Log in Respawn! and Blow up ships. respawn! Blow up some ships. Respawn blow up some ships so on and log out Que up for a week in skills and unlock and come back and repeat the process again without losing there rent money the core mechanics cater only to Hardcore Players. thats why these changes are a good thing.


If that's the type of player you want to attract to Eve then I personally think that you are wrong for Eve.

Sounds Elitist If thats what CCP wants to do( Alienate Gamers) all the power to them however the playerbase wont grow and will only appeal to a very small niche market. Note: Eve Online needs a Solo Q Button and Clones Should Respawn for Free and a Mini Map would be nice.Blink


Different games for different types of people.

There's a reason why I don't play star trek online or wow. They don't appeal to me.

same reason why I don't read historical romance or books about religion. Different tastes for different people.

It's not possible to make a game that appeals to everyone, it would be foolish to try.

It would be like writing a book and hoping that everyone who buys books will want to buy and read it.

different demographics etc.

A recovering btter vet,  with a fresh toon and a determination to like everything that CCP does to Eve...

Don't take me too seriously though, I like to tease a bit on the forums, but that's only because I love you...
Rowells
Blackwater USA Inc.
Pandemic Horde
#464 - 2014-11-22 23:15:15 UTC
Medalyn Isis wrote:
Rowells wrote:
E: do we really want a mechanic that discourages risk for higher SP characters? Don't we want them undocked and shootable? Don't we want them risking real assets in space more often? Clone costs do not help that in any way.

Why don't we turn tranquillity into sisi, put everything on the market at 100 isk with unlimited supply, after all, we don't want to discourage people from pvp do we?

Your logic is flawed. Pod loss is meant to be the most detrimental thing which can happen to a pod pilot, the consequence should reflect that. Then the bounty system might finally make sense too.

Your calling my logic flawed while pulling a slippery slope? Good lord.

As has been said before there is a spectrum of effects clones have. It doesn't affect low so characters that much but much more against higher sp characters.

The point is, clone costs add nothing to the game. Everything else has the diversity of decision to either increase risk and possible reward, or decrease risk and potential reward. Do clones fit in there? No, they are binary. Can't play with them, can't risk one that is better than your opponent, no gameplay. Eve is supposed to be risky, but there is also supposed to be degrees of reward for taking that risk. It's just not there. And until the current system gets removed, there is not much room for improvement
Ssabat Thraxx
DUST Expeditionary Team
Good Sax
#465 - 2014-11-22 23:38:46 UTC
Rowells wrote:
Ssabat Thraxx wrote:
Rowells wrote:

So far, I have seen to main arguments on how clones are useless in providing any meaningful content.

- Clones are so cheap they just become an annoyance.
- clones are so expensive they become a detrimental factor in deciding whether to undock or not

So on both ends of the spectrum you see it providing no meaningful content, and on the flipside, having a negative impact on content. In a worst case scenario, it makes people want to risk less. Its not because nobody wants to pay isk for it, but why do it? Why pour isk into something that provides no benefit? Why would you fit an expensive module on your ship if it did absolutely nothing, aside from keeping your ship from prematurely exploding? Theres nothing to be gained by spending more on it, but something to be lost by spending less on it. It doesnt even follow the rule of diminishing returns like everything else. There is a set point for each person where it either works, or it doesnt. Its annoyingly binary.

Simply put, it reduces the amount of 'fun' risk pilots are willing to take and provides no 'fun' gameplay in return. Getting rid of clone costs offers otions to replace it with a better system later, as has been mentioned.


I disagree. In other MMO's where one had a choice as to if they wanted to play in a PVP or straight PVE shard, I always chose PVP even if I wasnt wild about that game's PVP. This is because, to me, half the damn fun of playing is having to watch your back, a constant threat of danger and loss!

I keep 4 rather expensive clones, and 1 empty. The empty is for wild shenanigans in null, the others are optimized for certain ships. I make a "meaningful decision" with real consequences to my gameplay just about every day as I decide whether to jump into another clone and which one.

Like I said, removing the element of danger is removing part of the fun!


do you mean empty as in implants or as in clone upgrades


Implants. AFAIK your 1 med clone is all u need to retain SP. If not, Ive been doing it wrong :D


\m/ O.o \m/

"You're a freak ..." - Solecist Project
Mharius Skjem
Guardians of the Underworld
#466 - 2014-11-22 23:38:54 UTC
Rowells wrote:
Medalyn Isis wrote:
Rowells wrote:
E: do we really want a mechanic that discourages risk for higher SP characters? Don't we want them undocked and shootable? Don't we want them risking real assets in space more often? Clone costs do not help that in any way.

Why don't we turn tranquillity into sisi, put everything on the market at 100 isk with unlimited supply, after all, we don't want to discourage people from pvp do we?

Your logic is flawed. Pod loss is meant to be the most detrimental thing which can happen to a pod pilot, the consequence should reflect that. Then the bounty system might finally make sense too.

Your calling my logic flawed while pulling a slippery slope? Good lord.

As has been said before there is a spectrum of effects clones have. It doesn't affect low so characters that much but much more against higher sp characters.

The point is, clone costs add nothing to the game. Everything else has the diversity of decision to either increase risk and possible reward, or decrease risk and potential reward. Do clones fit in there? No, they are binary. Can't play with them, can't risk one that is better than your opponent, no gameplay. Eve is supposed to be risky, but there is also supposed to be degrees of reward for taking that risk. It's just not there. And until the current system gets removed, there is not much room for improvement


The reward is that you've accrued and are protecting a **** load of sp that you are using to pwn the enemy.

A recovering btter vet,  with a fresh toon and a determination to like everything that CCP does to Eve...

Don't take me too seriously though, I like to tease a bit on the forums, but that's only because I love you...
Ssabat Thraxx
DUST Expeditionary Team
Good Sax
#467 - 2014-11-22 23:46:43 UTC
Rowells wrote:


The point is, clone costs add nothing to the game. Everything else has the diversity of decision to either increase risk and possible reward, or decrease risk and potential reward. Do clones fit in there? No, they are binary. Can't play with them, can't risk one that is better than your opponent, no gameplay. Eve is supposed to be risky, but there is also supposed to be degrees of reward for taking that risk. It's just not there. And until the current system gets removed, there is not much room for improvement


No. Today, do I take my HG Slave Pod out? It gives a huge advantage to me should I be flying armor... sure would suck to lose it tho... Should I take out my Talisman Pod? I sure like that new Ashimmu.... Maybe I'll just hop in a frig and derp around in the local null systems, don't really need an implant for it... and dont rly care if I die...

See? Choices, diversity, risk vs reward. All right there.

TBH, for me it's the principle here that matters more than the substance of the nerf. Clone replacements are cheap enough that they should be trivial for just about anyone. The big deal here IMO is gonna be if your implants survive. They let that happen and fuggit, yes you can have my stuff.

A freakin gamre based around PVP with no penalty for dying... the thought of it makes me angry, lol.


\m/ O.o \m/

"You're a freak ..." - Solecist Project
Mharius Skjem
Guardians of the Underworld
#468 - 2014-11-22 23:50:50 UTC
Ssabat Thraxx wrote:
Rowells wrote:


The point is, clone costs add nothing to the game. Everything else has the diversity of decision to either increase risk and possible reward, or decrease risk and potential reward. Do clones fit in there? No, they are binary. Can't play with them, can't risk one that is better than your opponent, no gameplay. Eve is supposed to be risky, but there is also supposed to be degrees of reward for taking that risk. It's just not there. And until the current system gets removed, there is not much room for improvement


No. Today, do I take my HG Slave Pod out? It gives a huge advantage to me should I be flying armor... sure would suck to lose it tho... Should I take out my Talisman Pod? I sure like that new Ashimmu.... Maybe I'll just hop in a frig and derp around in the local null systems, don't really need an implant for it... and dont rly care if I die...

See? Choices, diversity, risk vs reward. All right there.

TBH, for me it's the principle here that matters more than the substance of the nerf. Clone replacements are cheap enough that they should be trivial for just about anyone. The big deal here IMO is gonna be if your implants survive. They let that happen and fuggit, yes you can have my stuff.

A freakin gamre based around PVP with no penalty for dying... the thought of it makes me angry, lol.




That my friends is how you win the moral argument.

If there's nothing to risk is there actually any contest.

If there's no loss when you lose it diminishes the value of the other guys win.

good post.

A recovering btter vet,  with a fresh toon and a determination to like everything that CCP does to Eve...

Don't take me too seriously though, I like to tease a bit on the forums, but that's only because I love you...
Rowells
Blackwater USA Inc.
Pandemic Horde
#469 - 2014-11-23 01:03:12 UTC
Ssabat Thraxx wrote:
Rowells wrote:


The point is, clone costs add nothing to the game. Everything else has the diversity of decision to either increase risk and possible reward, or decrease risk and potential reward. Do clones fit in there? No, they are binary. Can't play with them, can't risk one that is better than your opponent, no gameplay. Eve is supposed to be risky, but there is also supposed to be degrees of reward for taking that risk. It's just not there. And until the current system gets removed, there is not much room for improvement


No. Today, do I take my HG Slave Pod out? It gives a huge advantage to me should I be flying armor... sure would suck to lose it tho... Should I take out my Talisman Pod? I sure like that new Ashimmu.... Maybe I'll just hop in a frig and derp around in the local null systems, don't really need an implant for it... and dont rly care if I die...

See? Choices, diversity, risk vs reward. All right there.

TBH, for me it's the principle here that matters more than the substance of the nerf. Clone replacements are cheap enough that they should be trivial for just about anyone. The big deal here IMO is gonna be if your implants survive. They let that happen and fuggit, yes you can have my stuff.

A freakin gamre based around PVP with no penalty for dying... the thought of it makes me angry, lol.



Implants have absolutely nothing to do with clone costs. You don't lose anything other than opportunity for not using them.
Rowells
Blackwater USA Inc.
Pandemic Horde
#470 - 2014-11-23 01:06:50 UTC
Mharius Skjem wrote:
Rowells wrote:
Medalyn Isis wrote:
Rowells wrote:
E: do we really want a mechanic that discourages risk for higher SP characters? Don't we want them undocked and shootable? Don't we want them risking real assets in space more often? Clone costs do not help that in any way.

Why don't we turn tranquillity into sisi, put everything on the market at 100 isk with unlimited supply, after all, we don't want to discourage people from pvp do we?

Your logic is flawed. Pod loss is meant to be the most detrimental thing which can happen to a pod pilot, the consequence should reflect that. Then the bounty system might finally make sense too.

Your calling my logic flawed while pulling a slippery slope? Good lord.

As has been said before there is a spectrum of effects clones have. It doesn't affect low so characters that much but much more against higher sp characters.

The point is, clone costs add nothing to the game. Everything else has the diversity of decision to either increase risk and possible reward, or decrease risk and potential reward. Do clones fit in there? No, they are binary. Can't play with them, can't risk one that is better than your opponent, no gameplay. Eve is supposed to be risky, but there is also supposed to be degrees of reward for taking that risk. It's just not there. And until the current system gets removed, there is not much room for improvement


The reward is that you've accrued and are protecting a **** load of sp that you are using to pwn the enemy.
not getting a punishment =/= reward. If I decide not to invest money into a new capital production line, do I have less money than I started? No. If I don't decide to fit a mid slot in my ship, does it suffer from a detriment? No. If I don't use implants, do I lose anything at all? No. The only thing lost is opportunity to do more or lose more. Clone costs don't allow that. You either pay enough to keep sp or enough to keep it.
Rowells
Blackwater USA Inc.
Pandemic Horde
#471 - 2014-11-23 01:10:10 UTC
Mharius Skjem wrote:
Ssabat Thraxx wrote:
Rowells wrote:


The point is, clone costs add nothing to the game. Everything else has the diversity of decision to either increase risk and possible reward, or decrease risk and potential reward. Do clones fit in there? No, they are binary. Can't play with them, can't risk one that is better than your opponent, no gameplay. Eve is supposed to be risky, but there is also supposed to be degrees of reward for taking that risk. It's just not there. And until the current system gets removed, there is not much room for improvement


No. Today, do I take my HG Slave Pod out? It gives a huge advantage to me should I be flying armor... sure would suck to lose it tho... Should I take out my Talisman Pod? I sure like that new Ashimmu.... Maybe I'll just hop in a frig and derp around in the local null systems, don't really need an implant for it... and dont rly care if I die...

See? Choices, diversity, risk vs reward. All right there.

TBH, for me it's the principle here that matters more than the substance of the nerf. Clone replacements are cheap enough that they should be trivial for just about anyone. The big deal here IMO is gonna be if your implants survive. They let that happen and fuggit, yes you can have my stuff.

A freakin gamre based around PVP with no penalty for dying... the thought of it makes me angry, lol.




That my friends is how you win the moral argument.

If there's nothing to risk is there actually any contest.

If there's no loss when you lose it diminishes the value of the other guys win.

good post.

You're making the assumption that the only thing someone brought was a pod. How often to you engage someone in your pod? And assuming someone brought a ship, then they have risked something. Clones are not the risk we should be associating with combat. The actual things (ships implants and modules) are the risk. And there is plenty of room for risk to get involved there.
Nevyn Auscent
Broke Sauce
#472 - 2014-11-23 01:11:53 UTC  |  Edited by: Nevyn Auscent
Solops Crendraven wrote:
and a Mini Map would be nice.Blink

Press F11 in game. Or turn brackets on and know how to use the tactical overlay.
One of those two applies.

As for 'more SP gives you advantages' it's been pointed out a million times why this is a lie.
SP in EVE gives you diversity of choices, not advantages in a specific ship (once you hit a certain point). It's fairly easy to max out a single fit option. Not so easy to max out every potential option.
But if I have 100 Mil SP, nothing says I have more than 1 mil SP towards a specific ship, meaning that 2 Mil SP character may actually fly the specific ship they are in better.
Ssabat Thraxx
DUST Expeditionary Team
Good Sax
#473 - 2014-11-23 01:13:51 UTC
Rowells wrote:
Ssabat Thraxx wrote:
Rowells wrote:


The point is, clone costs add nothing to the game. Everything else has the diversity of decision to either increase risk and possible reward, or decrease risk and potential reward. Do clones fit in there? No, they are binary. Can't play with them, can't risk one that is better than your opponent, no gameplay. Eve is supposed to be risky, but there is also supposed to be degrees of reward for taking that risk. It's just not there. And until the current system gets removed, there is not much room for improvement


No. Today, do I take my HG Slave Pod out? It gives a huge advantage to me should I be flying armor... sure would suck to lose it tho... Should I take out my Talisman Pod? I sure like that new Ashimmu.... Maybe I'll just hop in a frig and derp around in the local null systems, don't really need an implant for it... and dont rly care if I die...

See? Choices, diversity, risk vs reward. All right there.

TBH, for me it's the principle here that matters more than the substance of the nerf. Clone replacements are cheap enough that they should be trivial for just about anyone. The big deal here IMO is gonna be if your implants survive. They let that happen and fuggit, yes you can have my stuff.

A freakin gamre based around PVP with no penalty for dying... the thought of it makes me angry, lol.



Implants have absolutely nothing to do with clone costs. You don't lose anything other than opportunity for not using them.

They have everything to do with clone value. A clone can have a few billion ISK worth of implants in it, do you risk it and get the benefit those implants offer, or do you feel the risk is too great and you decide not to use that clone?


\m/ O.o \m/

"You're a freak ..." - Solecist Project
Ssabat Thraxx
DUST Expeditionary Team
Good Sax
#474 - 2014-11-23 01:17:11 UTC
Rowells wrote:
not getting a punishment =/= reward. If I decide not to invest money into a new capital production line, do I have less money than I started? No. If I don't decide to fit a mid slot in my ship, does it suffer from a detriment? No. If I don't use implants, do I lose anything at all? No. The only thing lost is opportunity to do more or lose more. Clone costs don't allow that. You either pay enough to keep sp or enough to keep it.


Precisely. Economists call it "Opportunity Cost," and a failure to understand it is why, for example, ships get sold for less than their material value by boobs who think the minerals were "free" because they mined them themselves.


\m/ O.o \m/

"You're a freak ..." - Solecist Project
Rowells
Blackwater USA Inc.
Pandemic Horde
#475 - 2014-11-23 01:17:33 UTC
Ssabat Thraxx wrote:
Rowells wrote:
Ssabat Thraxx wrote:
Rowells wrote:


The point is, clone costs add nothing to the game. Everything else has the diversity of decision to either increase risk and possible reward, or decrease risk and potential reward. Do clones fit in there? No, they are binary. Can't play with them, can't risk one that is better than your opponent, no gameplay. Eve is supposed to be risky, but there is also supposed to be degrees of reward for taking that risk. It's just not there. And until the current system gets removed, there is not much room for improvement


No. Today, do I take my HG Slave Pod out? It gives a huge advantage to me should I be flying armor... sure would suck to lose it tho... Should I take out my Talisman Pod? I sure like that new Ashimmu.... Maybe I'll just hop in a frig and derp around in the local null systems, don't really need an implant for it... and dont rly care if I die...

See? Choices, diversity, risk vs reward. All right there.

TBH, for me it's the principle here that matters more than the substance of the nerf. Clone replacements are cheap enough that they should be trivial for just about anyone. The big deal here IMO is gonna be if your implants survive. They let that happen and fuggit, yes you can have my stuff.

A freakin gamre based around PVP with no penalty for dying... the thought of it makes me angry, lol.



Implants have absolutely nothing to do with clone costs. You don't lose anything other than opportunity for not using them.

They have everything to do with clone value. A clone can have a few billion ISK worth of implants in it, do you risk it and get the benefit those implants offer, or do you feel the risk is too great and you decide not to use that clone?



They have nothing to do with clone costs. I use implants rarely and I don't get punished for not using them.

This discussion is on the clone upgrade costs. Not the implants.
Rain6637
GoonWaffe
Goonswarm Federation
#476 - 2014-11-23 01:21:04 UTC
jump fatigue for the distance you were reset to your med clone. a time throttle, rather than an ISK throttle.

Help, I can't download EVE

President of the Commissar Kate Fanclub

PLEX: A Giffen good? (It's 1B?)
Ssabat Thraxx
DUST Expeditionary Team
Good Sax
#477 - 2014-11-23 01:29:13 UTC
Rowells wrote:
Ssabat Thraxx wrote:
Rowells wrote:
Ssabat Thraxx wrote:
Rowells wrote:


The point is, clone costs add nothing to the game. Everything else has the diversity of decision to either increase risk and possible reward, or decrease risk and potential reward. Do clones fit in there? No, they are binary. Can't play with them, can't risk one that is better than your opponent, no gameplay. Eve is supposed to be risky, but there is also supposed to be degrees of reward for taking that risk. It's just not there. And until the current system gets removed, there is not much room for improvement


No. Today, do I take my HG Slave Pod out? It gives a huge advantage to me should I be flying armor... sure would suck to lose it tho... Should I take out my Talisman Pod? I sure like that new Ashimmu.... Maybe I'll just hop in a frig and derp around in the local null systems, don't really need an implant for it... and dont rly care if I die...

See? Choices, diversity, risk vs reward. All right there.

TBH, for me it's the principle here that matters more than the substance of the nerf. Clone replacements are cheap enough that they should be trivial for just about anyone. The big deal here IMO is gonna be if your implants survive. They let that happen and fuggit, yes you can have my stuff.

A freakin gamre based around PVP with no penalty for dying... the thought of it makes me angry, lol.



Implants have absolutely nothing to do with clone costs. You don't lose anything other than opportunity for not using them.

They have everything to do with clone value. A clone can have a few billion ISK worth of implants in it, do you risk it and get the benefit those implants offer, or do you feel the risk is too great and you decide not to use that clone?



They have nothing to do with clone costs. I use implants rarely and I don't get punished for not using them.

This discussion is on the clone upgrade costs. Not the implants.


I said clone value which is not the same thing as cost, granted. As for being punished for not using them, it comes back to the "Opportunity Cost" we just mentioned. It's perhaps a matter of how you look at it, but all other things being equal, if your opponent has a set of HG implants that boost his tank, for example, and you do not, I'm not sure if "punished" is the right word, but you've certainly chosen to put yourself at a decidedly objective disadvantage.

As for the discussion being about the clone upgrade costs, you're right. We've meandered off topic a little bit, I suppose. That said, I'll repeat what I said earlier in the thread - there should be some penalty incurred for getting killed. Otherwise, whats the point? Contrary to what may be the PC way to look at things these days, I believe in there being winners and losers. I play (and often fail) to WIN.

\m/ O.o \m/

"You're a freak ..." - Solecist Project
Rowells
Blackwater USA Inc.
Pandemic Horde
#478 - 2014-11-23 01:43:53 UTC
I understand the the clone value argument thing.

My stance in the death cost: it's not necessarily a bad idea, but the current system is too binary. Dying is not the issue, it's what you lost previous to the death that actually matters. And one could argue being sent back to home station is pretty risky, and that can be mitigated by not going far, or increased by going farther in search of potential content. Clones are not where the risk should be and especially shouldn't be related to SP at all.
Rowells
Blackwater USA Inc.
Pandemic Horde
#479 - 2014-11-23 01:47:03 UTC
Rain6637 wrote:
jump fatigue for the distance you were reset to your med clone. a time throttle, rather than an ISK throttle.

Wrong. The fatigue would be based on SP. The more you have the longer timer. Regardless if distance.
Ssabat Thraxx
DUST Expeditionary Team
Good Sax
#480 - 2014-11-23 03:49:58 UTC
Rowells wrote:
I understand the the clone value argument thing.

My stance in the death cost: it's not necessarily a bad idea, but the current system is too binary. Dying is not the issue, it's what you lost previous to the death that actually matters. And one could argue being sent back to home station is pretty risky, and that can be mitigated by not going far, or increased by going farther in search of potential content. Clones are not where the risk should be and especially shouldn't be related to SP at all.


Yeah, like I said Im less worried about clone costs specifically and more worried about the "spirit" of the change. I just dont want them going and making Eve too "soft."

\m/ O.o \m/

"You're a freak ..." - Solecist Project