Wormholes

I hate doing these "ask the community" threads because they usually devolve and collapse very quickly, so I'll just put the facts down as I see it.

The frigate wormholes don't work (this is my opinion, I have no statistics for it). This has reduced down the scale of hunting and pvp to a specific class of ship, which in most respects, we don't use and we don't fly on a regular basis. We rarely jump them, rarely use them, and usually are not worth going into for the majority of wormhole space. The new 25 frigate specific wormholes would have the additional bandaid of the wolf rayet effect (pretty much, armor fits only). The wolf rayet effect in these holes is a bandaid and a additional restrictive measure, killing any shield ship people would fly into them.

This should be addressed now, not later.

I don't have an answer for this, but I have my own opinion.

The simplest fix as I've seen.. Remove the c6 effect and make those holes include up to cruisers. No battle cruisers, no battleships, just Frigs through t3's. Change all frig sized wormholes to include up to cruiser.

With that said:

• do you believe that the frigate wormholes should stay as is, and that the 25 new systems should be frig only (frigate destroyer and heavy interdictor).
• do you believe they should change all these holes (current frigate wormholes and the new frigate systems) to include cruisers.

I like the idea of frigate holes but I can't say I've actually used them for anything yet. I just wanted to say that T3's are actually the reason you can't allow allow cruiser hulls through them. T3's are just way too powerful to be mixed in with the rest of the stuff that would fit in there. As it is people fly T3's in WH's over tons of other ships, allowing them in frig holes would mean there'd be no frigates in there. Allowing HIC's in is already a similarly bad idea, especially with their recent buffs to damage output.

If they decided to remove the frigate holes I wouldn't complain, but I'd be happier if they truly limited them to frigates and destroyers only.

they have some interesting characteristics, and they are ok. nothing that would make me drop what i am doing.

this is what confuses me. this feels like wh2.0 space. like they never wanted ppl to live in wh space and do not want to give up on their ideal so that they are making this whole new space that works the way that they wanted wh space to be originally.

They are terrible for the same reason faction warfare frigate garbage is. It's a narrow range of overpowered, uninteresting ships to fly, with boring ships to shoot at that no one really cares about except poor, risk adverse nerds who think it's "fun". I mean if it gets you your $15/m then whatever right, but people like the majority of us who post here don't play this game to run around in crappy frigates.

I have mixed feelings about this.

I have long felt that if they changed the frigate holes to be cruiser sized, at least we could bring meaningful boats. A battle cruiser can't be restricted from a cruiser sized hole any more than a HIC can be restricted from a frigate hole, so you will have to come to terms with the idea that your idea includes battle cruisers.

That being said, we have gotten some ganks through frigate holes. So I guess they aren't completely useless, but ganks over fights isn't really the goal I think we should be striving for.

On the other side of the coin, with the addition of frigate systems, I think it's definitely interesting. Whether or not "interesting" every translates to good, only time will tell. If I had to guess, I would bet a lot of people are curious about the possibilities of what they could do in one. Also, with only 25 systems, it's not like this will be something we see very often.

So to try to answer your question:

• yes I think frigate only wormholes should be cruiser sized.
• no, I don't think frigate systems should be made into cruiser systems.

All of wormhole space does not have to be exactly the same, the frigate hole space has a great range of possibilities. Have we all forgotten how to use our imagination? Sure, if we want more of the same old, same old, then disappointment awaits, If you want to really dive in and try something new, different, and a diverging path from the path we took after we gained wormholes originally, then it is there. And even more so in the open shattered space.

We complained when frigate holes went nowhere, now there are complaints they go somewhere? Even If you want a fast path to Kspace for a few skillbooks, they are awesome, every frigate space has a KS static, and that is the tiniest benefit they bring, they will be full of daytrippers and new explorers, have we forgotten how to hunt in anything else than a T3? Even solo players without half a dozen alts, can have some great hunting here.
It is a great first step, once it shows as a success then hopefully there will be the chance for deep down the rabbit hole, where smaller ships and solo players/small groups can thrive.
There's now space for more playstyles to live, thrive and survive, taking nothing from those already here.

That's only because some people have reached critical mass.

I fully agree.
Frig WHs are a waste of time and effort in wspace.
they do not bring any content at all and actually remove content as people are scared of them and cant collapse them.
making the new frig only systems WRs is a bad joke that will make them even less appealing.

Yeah. F* those people who have fun. Who wants to that? Sounds terrible.

I have had several encounters via frig holes.

Example the first.

Example the second.

Now, that is after a good 2 months. Whee? Also there was a connection into a C5 we found where dudes were running cap escalations and literally gave no crap about a frig hole. This has happened twice, and yeah, i can see why they might be a bit confident about their ability to shrug off a horde of frigates with a triage Archon and 2 Moros. But there's ways and means, especially now with the new bombs.

So, we can see there is actually a way to kill people via frigate holes. Ergo, not useless. it just challenges you all to get out of your cruisers and #YOLO. Spend the time on PYFA or EFT, and look at what the onyx and Broadsword can achieve. Train the skills. Grind the ISK to afford the fits, spend the time to get them in your hole. They might sit around gathering dust, but then again, as above, if you don't actually have the skills and materials you might miss out bombing to death an escalation quad.

All of that said, I agree that these 25 new holes are stupid if it's only C6 W-R effects. It's like Fozzie is saying "helloo, i know that you know that i know that you've worked out that in a W-R frigates and dessies are ZOMG, so here's a playground for you."

Yeah, yeah, Fozzie. Genius level, as usual. *golf clap*

But, mate, it's one-dimensional. It's not challenging. We went through the whole frigate hole doctrine wargaming and PYFA-thon when we heard about the original frig hole connectors and the results are the same;

No efficient, effective and tanky logi frigates. Too weak, so ineffectual, not enough rep range, not enough resists, somewhat clunky to fit MWD's and reps. You can do a queer logi Devoter, but it's far too slow and clunky and....yeah, no.

Destroyers are naff. I've resorted to secret and classified mechanisms to make them not naff. But even then, considering the place you can push them with enough madness and ISK and effort, and where the Enyo sits bog standard T2 fit...you struggle to justify Destroyers. Full stop.

T3 Tactical Destroyers will change this. But do you really need C6 W-R to make us want to take them in? I mean, the Amarr and Gallente ones, because #LOL if you think that anyone's going to put the Caldari one on the line in a C6 W-R.

Noobs won't bother. The only thing noobs do in wormholes these days is die to smartbombing Proteii and Lokis while hacking relic and data sites. After enough of them get podded and lose 250M Asteros and 250M implants, they'll stop. Why would they bother coming into a frig hole for a fight?

it is pointless. C6 W-R frig vs frig is something everyone will avoid. I know I will. I would only do frigs in a C6 W-R if it was dropping 80 Enyos on an escalation. Because then you are killing people and have an advantage. If it's even for you and your opponents, it comes down to preparedness and just plain luck with server pings. Get your sho off 28ms faster than the other guy, you win. WOW GUYS LETS DO THAT. No thanks, yours truly, Australian internet.