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Dev blog: Quick, give me manual control!

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Deltan Lilthanzarus
Fractal Method
#281 - 2014-11-18 06:24:33 UTC
I am rapt that this is finally happening. I feel this change is excellent for a number of reasons.
I like having the option to utilise a different ship-control method so that I can choose the most appropriate method to suit the circumstances at hand.
My mouse will be less busy and I can focus more on module control and targeting etc.
It is the forerunner of Joystick control *drool* which hopefully will allow for some interesting and fun piloting. Along these lines, would it be possible to make some changes to collision detection on things like NPC stations, asteroids etc? It would be nice not to get stuck inside station walls that never should have been penetrable and not bounce off invisible sections. I have no real idea about how eve's collision detection is handled - I'm just guessing, but perhaps make the objects from multiple smaller boxes rather than just a single central box. Wouldn't it be awesome if collision detection could be handled by a manipulable wife-frame mesh. I understand that this is basically not feasible currently as you really just want to be able to create objects as required and not be concerned about loading object-specific boxes. A man has to have a dream...

Thanks CCP
Shon Anzomi
Science and Trade Institute
Caldari State
#282 - 2014-11-18 07:50:03 UTC  |  Edited by: Shon Anzomi
Its interesting, funny how the game could do 10 years without it, perhaps it can do another couple :) I would like to suggest looking at controls implemented in games like Ace Online or War Thunder or World of Warplanes e.g. arcades (sorry WT, but mouse controls are for arcade).

WASD controls are nice, but I would prefer flying with mouse and target locking and such with keyboard. Other thing is that with manual control whole list of things probably will come to attention, such as more accurate hitboxes, better target management with keyboard, perhaps even weapon balance, who knows.

Edit: Another important thing is, if you'd like to make this attractive, then really do consider other cameras than just "the ship on the broom stick" where the ship is rigidly in front of you. I mentioned the trhee games above for a reason :)
rickatech Zebulon
rickatech Zebulon Corporation X
#283 - 2014-11-18 08:14:46 UTC
I've played StarTrek Online, fricking hate the drive my spacehip like a first person shooter with WASD. Go play DUST if that's what you want.

I will say as new player, at no point do I recall the nuances of flight control being clearly demonstrated - it should be the VERY FIRST NEW PLAYER TRAINING, learning how to click in space to steer your ship, aligning your ship, and adjusting speed. Maybe that training is there, but it didn't register well, instead I stumbled on much of the ship control nuances completely by accident. Maybe some good new player missions, or even distribution missions to illustrate and hone players skill.
Adrie Atticus
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#284 - 2014-11-18 09:27:19 UTC
Aleqs Villint wrote:
Would it be possible to merge the Align and Approach commands?


Please no, those two do different things and I use both daily.
Nami Kumamato
Perkone
Caldari State
#285 - 2014-11-18 10:09:24 UTC
1. GOOD F*IN JOB CCP!!
2. I demand that you terminate the kidnapped CCP employees that you are clearly impersonating, and assume total control for the duration.
3. This seems a feature that will be used more for personal amusement, as EVE is too tactical for WASD, IMO, but what the hell -WEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE !!

I'm just gonna go fap now because the excitement level is above 9000...

Fornicate The Constabulary !
rufina reed
roguecats
#286 - 2014-11-18 12:17:09 UTC
Lucrii Dei wrote:
Why do CCP need to be afraid of Elite: Dangerous?

Looked up images of it and got confused because it looks like Valkyrie. Smile

Elite has been around for 30 years at least and still has a following..
most of the ships i saw looked like Adders from the elite 30 years ago that were wire framed.
in a lot of ways elite pioneered the computer space based games.
you would be shocked how close Eve and Elite are to each other considering how old Elite is.
BUT Eve broke away from being a fighter based game.
Vila eNorvic
#287 - 2014-11-18 13:30:16 UTC
rufina reed wrote:
Lucrii Dei wrote:
Why do CCP need to be afraid of Elite: Dangerous?

Looked up images of it and got confused because it looks like Valkyrie. Smile

Elite has been around for 30 years at least and still has a following..
most of the ships i saw looked like Adders from the elite 30 years ago that were wire framed.
in a lot of ways elite pioneered the computer space based games.
you would be shocked how close Eve and Elite are to each other considering how old Elite is.
BUT Eve broke away from being a fighter based game.


Elite: Dangerous is well-named.

My computer crashes instantly every time I access their web site.
Vila eNorvic
#288 - 2014-11-18 13:47:34 UTC
Vila eNorvic wrote:
(Yes, I paid attention to the tutorial and knew how to fly manually within the first ½ hour of play and never for one moment imagined that I would be able to do it any other way.)

rickatech Zebulon wrote:
I will say as new player, at no point do I recall the nuances of flight control being clearly demonstrated - it should be the VERY FIRST NEW PLAYER TRAINING, learning how to click in space to steer your ship, aligning your ship, and adjusting speed. Maybe that training is there, but it didn't register well, instead I stumbled on much of the ship control nuances completely by accident. Maybe some good new player missions, or even distribution missions to illustrate and hone players skill.

I can hardly believe this.

Aura's initial tutorial is where I learned it, but I just ran through that again and found that the reference has been removed.

Put it back asap, CCP, this is essential knowledge.

That tutorial needs a thorough overhaul - e.g. the newbie is instructed on the use of acceleration gates only AFTER having to figure it out for himself in a previous mission! Roll
Bagrat Skalski
Koinuun Kotei
#289 - 2014-11-18 16:14:27 UTC
WASD in space is better than ship spinning in station.

Custom ship skins, character creator style "repaint". Bring it!
Altirius Saldiaro
Doomheim
#290 - 2014-11-18 17:36:34 UTC
We need the ability to reverse our ships as well.
YuIia
Native Freshfood
Minmatar Republic
#291 - 2014-11-18 19:37:24 UTC
Great work CCP very impressed with you guys lately. Biggest change the game has ever and possibly will ever get.

Now just remove orbit and keep at range from pvp and you have a modern game!

Seriously.... throw away automated movement and you will have twitch skill based combat finally. This would also eliminate almost all botting, if combined with not being able to click approach for asteroids and npcs only. (Keep it for pvp as it's important for fleet orders)
Lady Rift
His Majesty's Privateers
#292 - 2014-11-18 19:49:55 UTC
YuIia wrote:
Great work CCP very impressed with you guys lately. Biggest change the game has ever and possibly will ever get.

Now just remove orbit and keep at range from pvp and you have a modern game!

Seriously.... throw away automated movement and you will have twitch skill based combat finally. This would also eliminate almost all botting, if combined with not being able to click approach for asteroids and npcs only. (Keep it for pvp as it's important for fleet orders)



nope if you cant set orbit you shouldn't be able to click approach pve or pvp. you want twitch controls but don't want to have to use them for everything.
YuIia
Native Freshfood
Minmatar Republic
#293 - 2014-11-18 20:05:49 UTC  |  Edited by: YuIia
Lady Rift wrote:
YuIia wrote:
Great work CCP very impressed with you guys lately. Biggest change the game has ever and possibly will ever get.

Now just remove orbit and keep at range from pvp and you have a modern game!

Seriously.... throw away automated movement and you will have twitch skill based combat finally. This would also eliminate almost all botting, if combined with not being able to click approach for asteroids and npcs only. (Keep it for pvp as it's important for fleet orders)



nope if you cant set orbit you shouldn't be able to click approach pve or pvp. you want twitch controls but don't want to have to use them for everything.


My point was that if automated orbit and keep at range were removed from combat, it would require skill to manually do these things yourself, you want to be in your optimal? BE IN YOUR OPTIMAL instead of just clicking keep at perfect range and pressing f1.

Removing Orbit and Keep at range from pvp with manual control would immensely increase the play skill factor and fun in pvp.

The main reason MANY real competitive mmo players and guilds won't try eve is because of the lack of twitch or skill in movement. If you could just press keep at range and perfectly out range someone in say, world of warcraft and never be hit it would feel really cheesy and not competitive. While all eve players have had to make this compromise and deal with the cheesy skill-less movement this game has to offer, there could be many more players CCP could be reaching with real movement.
Dersen Lowery
The Scope
#294 - 2014-11-18 20:26:43 UTC
YuIia wrote:
The main reason MANY real competitive mmo players and guilds won't try eve is because of the lack of twitch or skill in movement. If you could just press keep at range and perfectly out range someone in say, world of warcraft and never be hit it would feel really cheesy and not competitive. While all eve players have had to make this compromise and deal with the cheesy skill-less movement this game has to offer, there could be many more players CCP could be reaching with real movement.


And one of the big sells EVE has for me, as opposed to all those other games, is that the RTS style of setting up a situation and then monitoring and adjusting is better suited to my speed, twenty years past any youthful predisposition toward twitch play.

The people who like that sort of thing already have plenty of AAA titles to choose from.

Proud founder and member of the Belligerent Desirables.

I voted in CSM X!
Adrie Atticus
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#295 - 2014-11-18 21:08:07 UTC
YuIia wrote:
Lady Rift wrote:
YuIia wrote:
Great work CCP very impressed with you guys lately. Biggest change the game has ever and possibly will ever get.

Now just remove orbit and keep at range from pvp and you have a modern game!

Seriously.... throw away automated movement and you will have twitch skill based combat finally. This would also eliminate almost all botting, if combined with not being able to click approach for asteroids and npcs only. (Keep it for pvp as it's important for fleet orders)



nope if you cant set orbit you shouldn't be able to click approach pve or pvp. you want twitch controls but don't want to have to use them for everything.


My point was that if automated orbit and keep at range were removed from combat, it would require skill to manually do these things yourself, you want to be in your optimal? BE IN YOUR OPTIMAL instead of just clicking keep at perfect range and pressing f1.

Removing Orbit and Keep at range from pvp with manual control would immensely increase the play skill factor and fun in pvp.

The main reason MANY real competitive mmo players and guilds won't try eve is because of the lack of twitch or skill in movement. If you could just press keep at range and perfectly out range someone in say, world of warcraft and never be hit it would feel really cheesy and not competitive. While all eve players have had to make this compromise and deal with the cheesy skill-less movement this game has to offer, there could be many more players CCP could be reaching with real movement.


Strategy > twitch gameplay.
Shukrandak
Shukrandak Corporation
#296 - 2014-11-19 10:05:54 UTC  |  Edited by: Shukrandak
Control is brain****

I think good idea.

Forsage/Revers - W/S

Pitch - Ctrll / Space or mouse axis Y

Roll - Q/E

Yaw - A/D
Maul555
Xen Investments
#297 - 2014-11-19 15:40:08 UTC
You guys absolutely must include the option to invert the flight controls like almost every other game out there. down is up and up is down...
Primary This Rifter
Mutual Fund of the Something
#298 - 2014-11-19 15:57:09 UTC  |  Edited by: Primary This Rifter
Maul555 wrote:
You guys absolutely must include the option to invert the flight controls like almost every other game out there. down is up and up is down...

You can set the flight controls to any four keys you want...

I originally set mine as down is down and up is up in shortcuts without really thinking about it, and then realized my mistake when I went to try flying with that. So I just cleared down, set up to down and down to up.
rufina reed
roguecats
#299 - 2014-11-20 04:35:26 UTC
YuIia wrote:
Lady Rift wrote:
YuIia wrote:
Great work CCP very impressed with you guys lately. Biggest change the game has ever and possibly will ever get.

Now just remove orbit and keep at range from pvp and you have a modern game!

Seriously.... throw away automated movement and you will have twitch skill based combat finally. This would also eliminate almost all botting, if combined with not being able to click approach for asteroids and npcs only. (Keep it for pvp as it's important for fleet orders)



nope if you cant set orbit you shouldn't be able to click approach pve or pvp. you want twitch controls but don't want to have to use them for everything.


My point was that if automated orbit and keep at range were removed from combat, it would require skill to manually do these things yourself, you want to be in your optimal? BE IN YOUR OPTIMAL instead of just clicking keep at perfect range and pressing f1.

Removing Orbit and Keep at range from pvp with manual control would immensely increase the play skill factor and fun in pvp.

The main reason MANY real competitive mmo players and guilds won't try eve is because of the lack of twitch or skill in movement. If you could just press keep at range and perfectly out range someone in say, world of warcraft and never be hit it would feel really cheesy and not competitive. While all eve players have had to make this compromise and deal with the cheesy skill-less movement this game has to offer, there could be many more players CCP could be reaching with real movement.


WOW is not a twitch based game.. it is a gear, mod based macro game..
Also WOW uses a rock, paper and scissors approach to game play.
twitch based games require heavy hand /eye movement abilities.
you will lose more players then you gain.
a MMO i used to play did exactly what your asking for, they lost 25% of their player base in a month..
rufina reed
roguecats
#300 - 2014-11-20 05:44:13 UTC
Marcus Tedric wrote:
Whilst the other post I saw wasn't at all helpful - I for one have to raise a hand of sadness........Sad

EVE is wonderfully and beautifully different.

But this change is pandering to a legion of space flight simulator jockeys weaned on the execrable Star Wars franchise and its followers.

Why, oh why, could not CCP have been truly radical and introduced proper Einsteinian/Newtonian physics behavior?

I'll admit, I loved 'Frontier: Elite II'.

Such a change absolutely would introduce radical changes.



I know, I can see, that this change will be popular - but I'd much rather have seen all players launch into space and then crash and blow up as they tried to re-dock. At least the mouse-clicking was slightly okay (letting the nav-puter do the work).

All those interested in encouraging people to think about having to leave the planet will not approve of this change.

Big smile

that game was the only one i ever landed flying backwards lol