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Wormholes

 
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A complaint about two things in wormholes.

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Bronya Boga
Ministry of War
Amarr Empire
#61 - 2014-11-15 19:45:20 UTC
Caleb Seremshur wrote:


It's 3rd party. By definition, because it doesn't involve direct player action or the indirect action of npcs which would be 2nd party aka locator agents. It IS 3rd party.


No.

Caleb Seremshur wrote:

But a game needs rules that are fair to both teams in any situation


No it doesn't. becasue you said it yourself EVE is not fair.

Caleb Seremshur wrote:

I'm not going to support the status quo just because it makes *you* happy. If you can sit there on one hand and say this feature is broken and not working as intended then how can you sit there on the other hand and say that it's obviously fine because it's part of the game?

If people like you were in the dev team then critically needed changes like jump drive nerfs would never occur because it would be a loss of convenience for those parties with vested interests in maintaining the status quo even when that is a bad thing to do.


You are getting awefully personal. You dont know if I would have supported any feature because you dont know me. But what I do know is that you are bitching about something that has never been a problem. I like having a bunch of people who arent blue to me on watchlist because sometimes I like to know when they log in so I can talk to them. HAS NOTHING to do with hunting. Do I do it while i hunt people? sure but how do you make that distinction.

Also lets be ******* clear YOU have a problem with this mechanic. It doesnt fit into YOUR game. But everything else works just fine. So tell me a good reason why it should be removed besides "its unfair to me" because EVE IS NOT FAIR! get it through your head.

Andrew Jester
Collapsed Out
Pandemic Legion
#62 - 2014-11-15 19:57:35 UTC
Damn brony you got baited q.q this is embarrassing to watch

If thuggin' was a category I'd win a Grammy
Bronya Boga
Ministry of War
Amarr Empire
#63 - 2014-11-16 04:33:28 UTC
Andrew Jester wrote:
Damn brony you got baited q.q this is embarrassing to watch


Ill respond to stupid almost every time.
Lister Vindaloo
5 Tons of Flax
#64 - 2014-11-16 05:27:02 UTC
Maybe you should have watch listed these pilots when they entered the hole, then you could evacuate when they are offline? Or you could stop bring solo and invite some pilots to come and pew at them? Maybe you could grow a pair and pew back? Maybe you could just high tail it out and start a fresh with your WH earnings, maybe you should play the game rather than cry about a mechanic we all deal with?

Either take the money and run or fight for what you have claimed, if you aren't willing to do either then stop posting threads that are only going I become bonfires. You can't get wormhole ISK without risk, go to high sec it sounds like it will save the inevitable losses when this organized gang decides to mobilize against your lack of preparedness, sorry about the platitudes but, harden up, you aren't in K-space
Caleb Seremshur
Commando Guri
Guristas Pirates
#65 - 2014-11-16 06:18:27 UTC
Bronya Boga wrote:

No.

Caleb Seremshur wrote:

But a game needs rules that are fair to both teams in any situation


No it doesn't. becasue you said it yourself EVE is not fair.

Caleb Seremshur wrote:

I'm not going to support the status quo just because it makes *you* happy. If you can sit there on one hand and say this ---SNIP---]convenience[/i] for those parties with vested interests in maintaining the status quo even when that is a bad thing to do.


You are getting awefully personal. You dont know if I would have supported any feature because you dont know me. But what I do know is that you are bitching about something that has never been a problem. I like having a bunch of people who arent blue to me on watchlist because sometimes I like to know when they log in so I can talk to them. HAS NOTHING to do with hunting. Do I do it while i hunt people? sure but how do you make that distinction.

Also lets be ******* clear YOU have a problem with this mechanic. It doesnt fit into YOUR game. But everything else works just fine. So tell me a good reason why it should be removed besides "its unfair to me" because EVE IS NOT FAIR! get it through your head.



It's not a problem, right. That's why I'm not the only one with a problem with it. Let's go over the basics.

Definition of 3rd party.:

hird party
noun
noun: third party; plural noun: third parties

1.
a person or group besides the two primarily involved in a situation, especially a dispute.
"the involvement of a third party as an independent valuer"

adjective
adjective: third-party; adjective: third party

1.
relating to a person or group besides the two primarily involved in a situation.
"third-party suppliers"

So yeah I'm right about that one. Let's carry on.

EVE isn't fair because it's not an arena combat simulator. You don't see this issue because you don't *want* to obviously. EVE has rules, those rules are mostly clear cut, some are handled case by case and then there are others which need immediate attention like watchlisting. Watchlisting is the game providing you an advantage at no personal expense. End of story.

And I said multiple times it should be on the basis of having people mutually agree to be tracked. Your intepretation is that the current method of just randomly assigning a tracking beacon to someone through clicking on their portait and then getting info about their activity as logical and within the boundaries of good gameplay. You can have a problem with me all you like but that doesn't make it any better.

So yeah it is a personal issue you're suffering. Can you imagine a world where watchlisting didn't exist and then was suddenly announced as an upcoming feature? Can you see the problem? Can you see how many people would kick and scream about it? I reckon you should read this thread again, properly this time. And put your personal agenda aside and ask "what is best for the health of the game" and see that watchlisting isn't in that picture.
Bronya Boga
Ministry of War
Amarr Empire
#66 - 2014-11-16 09:23:53 UTC  |  Edited by: Bronya Boga
Caleb Seremshur wrote:
It's not a problem, right. That's why I'm not the only one with a problem with it. Let's go over the basics.

Definition of 3rd party.:

hird party
noun
noun: third party; plural noun: third parties

1.
a person or group besides the two primarily involved in a situation, especially a dispute.
"the involvement of a third party as an independent valuer"

adjective
adjective: third-party; adjective: third party

1.
relating to a person or group besides the two primarily involved in a situation.
"third-party suppliers"

So yeah I'm right about that one. Let's carry on.

EVE isn't fair because it's not an arena combat simulator. You don't see this issue because you don't *want* to obviously. EVE has rules, those rules are mostly clear cut, some are handled case by case and then there are others which need immediate attention like watchlisting. Watchlisting is the game providing you an advantage at no personal expense. End of story.

And I said multiple times it should be on the basis of having people mutually agree to be tracked. Your intepretation is that the current method of just randomly assigning a tracking beacon to someone through clicking on their portait and then getting info about their activity as logical and within the boundaries of good gameplay. You can have a problem with me all you like but that doesn't make it any better.

So yeah it is a personal issue you're suffering. Can you imagine a world where watchlisting didn't exist and then was suddenly announced as an upcoming feature? Can you see the problem? Can you see how many people would kick and scream about it? I reckon you should read this thread again, properly this time. And put your personal agenda aside and ask "what is best for the health of the game" and see that watchlisting isn't in that picture.


Your definition of third party didn't make you right...not sure what you mean. Its in the ******* game it aint evemon they using.

1. I dont see an issue because my personal opinion is that it isnt a problem. Never have I, till this thread, heard about anyone complaining about being watchlisted. Tells people you are online. Big ******* woop what does that matter? I would totaly be on your sidr if it was giving them your locations like tracking agents but nah dude...i just dont thunk its such a big deal.

2. And yes i can imagine a world without watch list. You know what would happen in that wotld? These people would still be in your wormhole with cloaked scouts on your tower waiting for you to do what ever it is you do. So no, watchlists arent a problem imho. Also people flip their **** like its Monday over every stupid little thing CCP changes so thats a dumb argument to provide.

3. Read thread over. Checked personal agenda (w/e the **** that is). Still think it does not hurt the "health" of the game. If you think your argument has merit go post on features and ideas where this belongs in the first place imo.
Jur Tissant
Garoun Investment Bank
Gallente Federation
#67 - 2014-11-16 15:56:01 UTC
a) Yo, chill, it's a game

b) I agree that the watchlist in WHs seems a little unbalanced. Here's my proposal:

When an enemy enters a WH their watchlist icon turns yellow. As long as they are in that WH - logged in or logged out, it remains yellow. On the one hand, this will give enemies intel on when this person is in a WH vs k-space, but it would fix your problem as well.

The alternative is to just to turn the watchlist red when players enter a wormhole, but this could be a) annoying when players entering and leaving constantly (e.g. rolling a hole) and b) rather deceptive to say your target is offline when they are not.
Lyron-Baktos
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#68 - 2014-11-16 18:23:23 UTC
I agree, the watchlist as it is now is ****
Domania
Must Be EOL Cuz Wormholes Dont Jiggle Like This
#69 - 2014-11-16 19:02:09 UTC
TL;DR Just deal with it.
Seraph Essael
Air
The Initiative.
#70 - 2014-11-17 03:36:08 UTC  |  Edited by: Seraph Essael
Sweet mother of god how did i miss this little gem Shocked

CCP beg to differ that the watch list is broken, in fact they just fixed it to tell you exactly when they log in (and out), which is great! Lol

There are multiple points to what's been said here that you are obviously missunderstanding.

Firstly your definition on "third party" (slowclap for googling that by the way and still being wrong). Third party, as it has already been stated to you, is a term used in gaming (and other things too) when an out of game (or whatever it is) tool is used to help with something ingame. For example, Siggy, is third party software. The watch list is part of in game mechanics and is coded into the game itself, therefore not third party. You can dissagree personally all you damned well please, and copy and paste as much as you like, it doesn't make you correct.

Secondly, the watch list itself does not tell a person where their 'mark' is, only that they are online, so they still have to do the leg work of finding you (and Eve is pretty damned big). Even without a watchlist they would still be able to see you online due to the fact they will have scouts in their hole that you cannot see, so regardles of a watch list, as soon as they see you in person, they would bring in their friends. Or are you telling us all that you would be constantly cloaked 24/7 and no one can see you?

You brought up an issue that would have made for a potentially great debate, however what you have done by taking a special butterfly whingearse attitude, is turn pretty much everyone in this thread against you because you want to play solo in your special little bubble...sorry I mean hole...without anyone interfering. The watchlist does not stop you from playing this game as they will have alts in your hole logged in so they can see when you are active. What stopping you from playing is your fear of other people.

I'm sure there will be a long winded reply somewhere down this thread from you about blah blah this and blah blah that, but at the end of the day, you're literally trying to be a special butterfly and that is all it boils down to.

I would go on, but it probably won't sink in and I have other things to do. Ciao Big smile

PS. I hope I find your hole...Twisted

Quoted from Doc Fury: "Concerned citizens: Doc seldom plays EVE on the weekends during spring and summer, so you will always be on your own for a couple days a week. Doc spends that time collecting kittens for the on-going sacrifices, engaging in reckless outdoor activities, and speaking in the 3rd person."
Caleb Seremshur
Commando Guri
Guristas Pirates
#71 - 2014-11-17 04:48:52 UTC
:-)

Thanks for your input.

Read the thread fully and try dismounting from moral high horse in future.

I'm not going to repeat what I've already said here in triplicate.

The great debate concluded two pages in. Following pages are misinformed opinions about circumventing addressing the issue and attacking me for raising the awereness of this issue which as said by someone else affects like every supercap, titan and important individual in the game. To such a stifling degree that prompted CCP to change fundamental gameplay in order to address it. There's a bigger picture here that many people in this thread are avoiding.

This topic isn't actually about me but people are trying damn hard to make it about me because deconstruction of a debate through fostering a lower level of dialogue is a pretty easy tool to access for people who haven't got a legitimate basis for their argument.
Iyokus Patrouette
University of Caille
Gallente Federation
#72 - 2014-11-17 05:09:09 UTC
Bronya Boga wrote:
Andrew Jester wrote:
Damn brony you got baited q.q this is embarrassing to watch


Ill respond to stupid almost every time.



Hi Bronya Blink

---- Advocate for the initiation of purple coloured wormholes----

Zappity
New Eden Tank Testing Services
#73 - 2014-11-17 08:09:18 UTC
I don't understand the watchlist ability at all. Talk about perfect intel - it's better than local. Utterly unbalanced and definitely shouldn't work in wormholes at the very least. Locators don't work for wormholes and this should be a similar principle.

Zappity's Adventures for a taste of lowsec and nullsec.
Winthorp
#74 - 2014-11-17 09:31:18 UTC
Zappity wrote:
I don't understand the watchlist ability at all. Talk about perfect intel - it's better than local. Utterly unbalanced and definitely shouldn't work in wormholes at the very least. Locators don't work for wormholes and this should be a similar principle.


Get back to your "adventures" Zappity.
Zappity
New Eden Tank Testing Services
#75 - 2014-11-17 09:41:38 UTC
Winthorp wrote:
Zappity wrote:
I don't understand the watchlist ability at all. Talk about perfect intel - it's better than local. Utterly unbalanced and definitely shouldn't work in wormholes at the very least. Locators don't work for wormholes and this should be a similar principle.


Get back to your "adventures" Zappity.

Oh, sorry, I just noticed this was the wormhole forum. Mustn't change anything. Change is bad and CCP should feel bad. So should everyone else.

Is that better? I'm sure I can get it right if I hang around here enough.

Watch list is perfect, free, instant and now recordable intel from anywhere in the map. I wouldn't be at all surprised if it was nerfed at some point.

Zappity's Adventures for a taste of lowsec and nullsec.
Jez Amatin
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#76 - 2014-11-17 09:43:47 UTC
Caleb Seremshur wrote:
:-)

...Following pages are misinformed opinions about circumventing addressing the issue and attacking me for raising the awereness of this issue which as said by someone else affects like every supercap, titan and important individual in the game. To such a stifling degree that prompted CCP to change fundamental gameplay in order to address it. There's a bigger picture here that many people in this thread are avoiding.



Err no my point was I've never heard a Titan or super pilot complain as much as you... But vov seems being misquoted to fit another agenda is a thing round here.
Serendipity Lost
Repo Industries
#77 - 2014-11-17 12:48:01 UTC
I think limiting the watch list to 50 entries would fix all the meta game issues. Let's get this done.
Lloyd Roses
Artificial Memories
#78 - 2014-11-17 13:15:23 UTC
This thread: Going places.

So what happened to that camp? Did the watchlist evict you, yet? Is your hole burning since you should be labeled 'farmer' by now if that situation is still ongoing?
Seraph Essael
Air
The Initiative.
#79 - 2014-11-17 14:00:24 UTC  |  Edited by: Seraph Essael
Caleb Seremshur wrote:
The great debate concluded two pages in. Following pages are misinformed opinions about circumventing addressing the issue and attacking me for raising the awereness of this issue which as said by someone else affects like every supercap, titan and important individual in the game. To such a stifling degree that prompted CCP to change fundamental gameplay in order to address it. There's a bigger picture here that many people in this thread are avoiding.

So what you are saying is CCP made all these nerfs to Jump Drives, power projection and Capitals, all because of the watch list... Lol Give me five minutes while I stop laughing...

Caleb Seremshur wrote:
This topic isn't actually about me but people are trying damn hard to make it about me because deconstruction of a debate through fostering a lower level of dialogue is a pretty easy tool to access for people who haven't got a legitimate basis for their argument.
I notice you have been doing this a lot in your replies; using big words and fancy sentences to fortify your argument, as if it means you're correct just because you have used them. If you are going to do this, at least get your grammar and punctuation correct.

That last part is an example of someone picking on you through what you personally have said. Throughout this whole thread people have been trying to explain stuff to you without picking on you personally (had they been I am pretty sure an ISD would have been along before now to clean up the thread). You are seeing insults and people picking on you when it's simply a case of they are not agreeing with you.

The watch list isn't broken to hell, so what if someone's watching you? Watch them back it works both ways. The intel given only says that person is online or if they are offline. Roll an alt or if you already have one play on that while you watch list them and as soon as they log off, switch to your main and go about your business if you are really that bothered. The watch list itself doesn't stop people from playing the game, it's the paranoia that stops people from playing the game.

Quoted from Doc Fury: "Concerned citizens: Doc seldom plays EVE on the weekends during spring and summer, so you will always be on your own for a couple days a week. Doc spends that time collecting kittens for the on-going sacrifices, engaging in reckless outdoor activities, and speaking in the 3rd person."
Andrew Jester
Collapsed Out
Pandemic Legion
#80 - 2014-11-17 15:09:23 UTC
OP needs to be less of a *****. The amount of whining he does is absolutely disgusting, and of the sort that can only really come from some shittier carebear who can't even be ****** to put a few guns on his POS to deter invaders. What kind of idiot just leaves ships floating around?

This entire post can be summarized as "I ****** up and now I'm paying for it". Stop whining so much. I've never heard a single super pilot complain about WL, and I know quite a few.

If thuggin' was a category I'd win a Grammy