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100 new wormholes
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Jessica Duranin
Doomheim
#21 - 2014-11-13 19:26:07 UTC
MooMooDachshundCow wrote:
ANY weapon that uses small-sized charges gets the bonus, right? Like RLML is pretty OP in the new WR IIRC.

Yes, they do - which is OP as f*** with the RLML.
They really should change it to small sized weapons instead of charges.
Phoenix Jones
Small-Arms Fire
#22 - 2014-11-13 19:27:16 UTC
Jessica Duranin wrote:
MooMooDachshundCow wrote:
ANY weapon that uses small-sized charges gets the bonus, right? Like RLML is pretty OP in the new WR IIRC.

Yes, they do - which is OP as f*** with the RLML.
They really should change it to small sized weapons instead of charges.



Don't think it needs to change, as the only ship that can bring them into here is the onyx (into the frig hole that is)

Yaay!!!!
Alundil
Rolled Out
#23 - 2014-11-13 19:29:40 UTC
scorchlikeshiswhiskey wrote:
Kynric wrote:
The strong wolf rayet in the frig systems is a disappointment. I like variety in viable comps and further narrowing the small ships category to armor tankers seems much too limited.

That was my thought as well, it is rather disappointing.

Edit: I haven't seen the lore but, from a gameplay perspective, it seems lacking in creativity as well as shoehorning the doctrine to fit the armor and turret small ships.

Sleepers have no shields. Perhaps it has something to do with that.

I'm right behind you
Hatshepsut IV
Un.Reasonable
#24 - 2014-11-13 19:30:02 UTC
Phoenix Jones wrote:
Jessica Duranin wrote:
MooMooDachshundCow wrote:
ANY weapon that uses small-sized charges gets the bonus, right? Like RLML is pretty OP in the new WR IIRC.

Yes, they do - which is OP as f*** with the RLML.
They really should change it to small sized weapons instead of charges.



Don't think it needs to change, as the only ship that can bring them into here is the onyx (into the frig hole that is)


RLML Gaining from the bonus adds an interesting dynamic and use for non-frigate ships with WR. It should most definitely not be changed.

Public Channel | Un.Welcome
Phoenix Jones
Small-Arms Fire
#25 - 2014-11-13 19:31:33 UTC  |  Edited by: Phoenix Jones
scorchlikeshiswhiskey wrote:
Hatshepsut IV wrote:
scorchlikeshiswhiskey wrote:
Out of curiosity, why are the small ship holes all armor/turret bonused? (C-6 Wolf-Rayet)
Because I'm naturally a bit paranoid, this seems to me like it is too close on the heels of the "OP Crow fix" and "OP LML fix" for it to be pure coincidence that 25% of the new space precludes the effective use of shield or missile ships. Anyone with some insight?



FYI Wolf Rayel effects apply to missiles as well, it doesn't correctly display but you definitely get the bonus.

I stand corrected.
You would think I would know that, but I misread "small weapon damage" as "small turret damage" since lights and rockets aren't usually lumped together as small missiles. My fault. (Although, the armor bonus is still more beneficial to turrets but that is separate from the damage bonus as you pointed out.)
I'm still not crazy about the armor only bonus, I still think it could have been done better from a gameplay point of view but I'm trying hard not to point fingers and make a jackass out of myself on this.
So, since it is likely that the armor doctrine will probably spill over to most other organized frig hole useage, what do you guys think about that?



It simplifies an issue wormholers have with these types of holes (omong others). CCP Dictating a specific doctrine is usually bad, but in this underutilized place, I don't necessarily see it as a issue. It would make it easier for wormholers to just have an armor frigate and destroyer, rather than have an armor frigate, shield frigate, shield and armor repping frigates, three different destroyers, both type of heavy hics, a armor and shield light dictor, and both types of tactical destroyers.

I don't agree with it, but I do think it makes organization simpler for wormholers.

Edit: the more I think about this, the more I disagree with it. It's highly restrictive.

Yaay!!!!
Winthorp
#26 - 2014-11-13 20:11:22 UTC
Steven Hackett wrote:
... worst update ever... Even worse than frigat holes and jump mechanics..

Empty space was just what we needed! Fantastic, how did he guess that?


I have to agree, what a waste.
Svodola Darkfury
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#27 - 2014-11-13 20:20:32 UTC
Nobody will ice mine in a system that they have to haul the ice out of to refine. I appreciate their thought that maybe we would like to be self-sufficient, but ice is too big to haul back and forth that much. Don't get me wrong, we'll see some Orcas or something to murder, but it will be few and far between and not sustainable gameplay.

Thera, with 4 stations, ehh... That sounds REALLY lock-downable to me. I do like that they limited it to C4 sites in Thera though, so it's really not THAT worth it to lock the place down other than you know, mad balls.

Nothing game-breaking for me, I think they just over-estimate our commitment to brawling at times.

Svo.

Director of Frozen Corpse Industries.
Ab'del Abu
Atlantis Ascendant
#28 - 2014-11-13 20:23:10 UTC
stop whining. Thera is probably going to fail miserably, except CCP somehow pulls it off to keep it interesting by doing some lore stuff every other week that leads to new content.

But the other holes (not the frig holes obv., they're just stupid) will be a nice addition to wh-space. rejoice for there will be ice miners to kill Lol
Jack Miton
School of Applied Knowledge
Caldari State
#29 - 2014-11-13 20:46:35 UTC  |  Edited by: Jack Miton
These systems seem super lame.
Only thing they'll be used for is ice mining and really, it's just easier to get your ice in HS.
CCP seems to have some sore of frig fetish for WHs but it's never going to happen.
Frig only system and holes just encourage super linear gameplay with little variety which gets stale super fast.
WHs need to have more to them than 'oh there's ice there' for WHers to care about them.

Sure, ok, i get that ccp is going for storyline here but this isnt WH content...

PS: Making them WR holes is really bad for actually encouraging people to PVP there! WRs are great for frigs because it lets them murder LARGE ships, not other frigs. Frig vs. Frig PVP in a WR is even more ridiculously fast paced than normal frig PVP and again leads to more linear gameplay of just ganking the crap out of each other.

There is no Bob.

Stuck In Here With Me:  http://sihwm.blogspot.com.au/

Down the Pipe:  http://feeds.feedburner.com/CloakyScout
Hamish McRothimay
Norse Complex Inc
#30 - 2014-11-13 20:46:49 UTC
Kynric wrote:
The strong wolf rayet in the frig systems is a disappointment. I like variety in viable comps and further narrowing the small ships category to armor tankers seems much too limited.



It must be to enforce limits on ship types else why not have 12 Wolf-Rayet & 12 Pulsar ?

Oh ..and 1 Red Giant just for kicks
Teleil Zoomers
Royal Sphynx Ltd
#31 - 2014-11-13 21:01:17 UTC
come on guys its not that bad.

if these connect to jspace then there is ice + more ore, gas, data/relic, combat sites.

corp A rolls into one thru static, corp B rolls into same one.

pew pew time or run and hide time. same thing would happen without them anyways.
Jack Miton
School of Applied Knowledge
Caldari State
#32 - 2014-11-13 21:05:40 UTC  |  Edited by: Jack Miton
Teleil Zoomers wrote:
corp A rolls into one thru static, corp B rolls into same one.
pew pew time or run and hide time. same thing would happen without them anyways.

sure, so what youre saying is that they bring functionality that already exists and interactions that have been around since 2009.
sweet, sounds like a great use of dev time!

im not saying theyre bad for WH space, theyre just irrelevant and given that adding new space is huge in eve (has only happened a few time in its history), i really would have hoped for something more, for the new space to actually have a point.

There is no Bob.

Stuck In Here With Me:  http://sihwm.blogspot.com.au/

Down the Pipe:  http://feeds.feedburner.com/CloakyScout
ExookiZ
The Dark Space Initiative
Scary Wormhole People
#33 - 2014-11-13 21:09:28 UTC
Ill agree with the " whya re they ALL WR" sentiment, but well see how it plays out.

How interesting ( or uninteresting) Thera is it hink will depend heavily on who tries to live there, and what "new" sites they add to it. I imagine a burst of everyone piling into it, then quickly a lot of people realize its not for them and leave. Probably boiling down to a couple groups that live there still brawling over ownership.

The connections make it relatively tricky to move in the bulk I think many people were hoping for, but unlike normal WHs, the low/ null connections will likely be more active as people realize that Thera is guaranteed to have high sec.

Event Organizer of EVE North East
Teleil Zoomers
Royal Sphynx Ltd
#34 - 2014-11-13 21:09:29 UTC
well i dunno. perhaps they will drive a few conflicts Sad
Elyas Crux
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#35 - 2014-11-13 21:15:54 UTC
King Fu Hostile wrote:
Not sure how balanced armor HICs are in the small shattered holes.


My guess is OP to tanking but lack-lustre DPS.
Hamish McRothimay
Norse Complex Inc
#36 - 2014-11-13 21:22:21 UTC
scorchlikeshiswhiskey wrote:
[quote=Kynric]
Edit: I haven't seen the lore but, from a gameplay perspective, it seems lacking in creativity as well as shoehorning the doctrine to fit the armor and turret small ships.



You mean like Armor and turret small ships used in Valkyrie ? Straight
Lazerath Kang
False Profits
#37 - 2014-11-13 21:45:06 UTC
I'll have to get on sisi tonight and check this out. Still not liking the whole stations in wh's. How do you jump clone to the unknown?Shocked
Sequester Risalo
German Corps of Engineers 17
Federation of Respect Honor Passion Alliance.
#38 - 2014-11-13 21:45:26 UTC
I must say this is better than I thought. In my opinion we don't need more of the same wh-systems as the population is already spread thin. However these new systems will not allow permanent residency. They are ideal for day-tripping or farming if your home is bottomed out. Both are good things.

I don't really know what to make of Thera. For this concept of 'Jita in W-space' a lot of things need to fall into place. And CCP can't influence all of them. I'm afraid we'll have to wait how this is playing out.
Lazerath Kang
False Profits
#39 - 2014-11-13 21:49:14 UTC
I really doubt anyone is gonna be stupid enough to farm in Thera. System s most likely gonna be perma camped.
Shilalasar
Dead Sky Inc.
#40 - 2014-11-13 21:58:56 UTC
Jack Miton wrote:
These systems seem super lame.
Only thing they'll be used for is ice mining and really, it's just easier to get your ice in HS.
CCP seems to have some sore of frig fetish for WHs but it's never going to happen.
Frig only system and holes just encourage super linear gameplay with little variety which gets stale super fast.
WHs need to have more to them than 'oh there's ice there' for WHers to care about them.

Sure, ok, i get that ccp is going for storyline here but this isnt WH content...

PS: Making them WR holes is really bad for actually encouraging people to PVP there! WRs are great for frigs because it lets them murder LARGE ships, not other frigs. Frig vs. Frig PVP in a WR is even more ridiculously fast paced than normal frig PVP and again leads to more linear gameplay of just ganking the crap out of each other.



WR actually encourages kiters more than anything. You can´t run shieldbrawlers, active armor gets no real tankbonus but takes way more, so what is left are kiters aka rangetanking and slowass plated armor. And the damagebonus helps kiters so much more since they shoot you way longer. And if you run armorplates you will never catch up to him anyways.
Is it just a coincidence that they add polarized weapons now too? I do not think so.
At least you cannot run links in there and you might get their expensive pods bubbled if they really **** up. And it will not be tristans all over the place like FW space.
Also please forbid mobile depots in there too so you at least have to stick with doublebubble and can´t refit once inside.

What do those shattered systems (really not nice to do that. It was so cool to have only 2 shattered planets in j-space, way to kill the only non-playerrelated landmarks) actually add?
Lore. Ok that is cool for the 1% of players that care abou tit.
Ice, hurray...
Instanced PvP if two entities connect to each other via one of those in between, since they can only bring a limited number of caps or only tinystuff. But unless you are fighting at the sun it will still be jumping-home-if-in-trouble and the homebonus, so exactily like now...
The frigholes with lowsec statics will be exactily like FW-beacons just you have to scan them down. "Come here for frigpvp"
Living there off an orca since they always have a static k- and good chances for a sameclass. Maybe if it is a c4, for anything else a c2 or 5 is still better. And since you know shoever is in this system won´t have a tower you will be looking for cloaked orcas.
More systems to scan, yayyy.... At least you don´t have to dscan for the towers.
Also, how many new wormholes, holes not systems are added with this? It will most likely bring the holes-per-system count ever higher than it already is since the last changes.

Those holes are not new content they are shittier versions of what we have now. What a letdown. Please correct me if I´m wrong, I want new good stuff.

And let me guess, the Therastations are kickouts.
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