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Plex Prices

First post
Author
Aurelius Valentius
Valentius Corporation
#141 - 2014-12-02 18:41:31 UTC
You are all so silly... EVE MD people, you so silly.

For the logical minded:

PLEX = 30days regardless, and also 1 month of training etc... these are fixed and do not change, eg. they are a hedge like gold per ounce or a barrel or oil, or bacon, but more like gold because they do not degrade with time and all that unlike some commodities.

The amount of ISK you pay to buy or the amount you get when you sell are only real if you do one of them = realized gain or loss, should you sell, if you hold them that is not realized as they will always have a market price that is variable (but history shows they always go up over time with minor dips and levels from a new set price.

When PLEX is high hold them, and only use them as needed, when PLEX is low accumulate more if you can, this is the "way of the PLEX" - zen style.

Price doesn't matter unless you can't afford one and you need on to stay active. This is the point at which most people grumble... but if ISK is coming in, then getting one (or more) isn't really an issue.

What would be the case imho = people saw a natural sell point to liquidate some PLEX into ISK as well as an intervention in PLEX and then perhaps the isboxer thing may have had some impact but I don't think so, because PLEX selling doesn't help you with that announcement, if you have a bunch of accounts and you let them unsub, which is dumb, you could sell them for ISK, then also you could sell the assets for more ISK and simply keep you PLEX as you can use them with your main... I don't see any boxers I know quitting over it, and most of them didn't have a pile of PLEX as they had to box monthly to get enough ISK to get all the PLEX from the market to keep going... so they didn't hold a lot of them they used them as they got them.

The big PLEX holders are the people with 1 or 2 accounts that have 10x or 100x of PLEX in a can somewhere that they don't use more, and as they use them they add a few more always in accumulation mode... they are the ones that help keep the price up, but also they aren't setting the price, the demand is: what the market will allow and pay.

The number of PLEX being brought into existence is the biggest part of the price, if a lot of people put in RM to make new PLEX and then put them on the market the price seems to dip, but only because people who want to accumulate try very hard to push the price down and grab them up - such as the markets eating up any CCP intervention that is putting in PLEX, these are simply temp down-turns because the big ISK wants to pull them all up at the lowest price, and so they do, and then when that happens the price increases over time again as less of them are available.

All you can do in EVE is keep up some king ISK engine where you make enough to balance your PLEX needs with your amount of accounts to your wallet levels - real or in game.

Basically: Productive Activity = Wealth, anything else is just stuff (including PLEX) that someone may give you some of their productivity for, at whatever price is currently seen as a reasonable trade.
Vaerah Vahrokha
Vahrokh Consulting
#142 - 2014-12-03 22:12:41 UTC
Aurelius Valentius wrote:

The big PLEX holders are the people with 1 or 2 accounts that have 10x or 100x of PLEX in a can somewhere that they don't use more, and as they use them they add a few more always in accumulation mode... they are the ones that help keep the price up, but also they aren't setting the price, the demand is: what the market will allow and pay.


I think you are understimating what a "big PLEX holder is".
Even without really trying the PLEX markets I myself had up to 6 subs and 100x PLEX were nothing exceptional.

There are guys with a dozen+ PLEXed accounts and 500x PLEXes and that's just to warm them up.
Elizabeth Norn
Nornir Research
Nornir Empire
#143 - 2014-12-03 22:15:13 UTC
Aurelius Valentius wrote:
You are all so silly... EVE MD people, you so silly.


Why are we silly and what's your point?
Candy Oshea
Techfree Investment Group
#144 - 2014-12-03 22:50:38 UTC
Aurelius Valentius wrote:
When PLEX is high hold them, and only use them as needed, when PLEX is low accumulate more if you can, this is the "way of the PLEX" - zen style.



https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5hfYJsQAhl0

iCandy  - I have accidently swallowed some Scrabble tiles, my next shit could spell disaster!

Toad The Hitchhiker
Science and Trade Institute
Caldari State
#145 - 2014-12-03 23:45:05 UTC
Plex only has a value as long as CCP declares it is valid tender. The day that Plex is declared unsaleable, or non-market based is the day that all your time and effort is worthless.

Is this likely to happen? No
Could it happen? Yes

Before you say that CCP would never do such a thing it would behoove people to look at history. There are numerous examples of priceless items being made worthless with one devblog, including out of game assets.
Elizabeth Norn
Nornir Research
Nornir Empire
#146 - 2014-12-04 00:42:30 UTC
Toad The Hitchhiker wrote:
Plex only has a value as long as CCP declares it is valid tender. The day that Plex is declared unsaleable, or non-market based is the day that all your time and effort is worthless.

Is this likely to happen? No
Could it happen? Yes

Before you say that CCP would never do such a thing it would behoove people to look at history. There are numerous examples of priceless items being made worthless with one devblog, including out of game assets.


Did any of those other changes remove a major source of income for CCP?
Toad The Hitchhiker
Science and Trade Institute
Caldari State
#147 - 2014-12-04 00:50:30 UTC
Elizabeth Norn wrote:
Toad The Hitchhiker wrote:
Plex only has a value as long as CCP declares it is valid tender. The day that Plex is declared unsaleable, or non-market based is the day that all your time and effort is worthless.

Is this likely to happen? No
Could it happen? Yes

Before you say that CCP would never do such a thing it would behoove people to look at history. There are numerous examples of priceless items being made worthless with one devblog, including out of game assets.


Did any of those other changes remove a major source of income for CCP?



WTS 60 day time card... WTS 90 day time card?

Changes don't always have to remove something, or add something to significantly effect the game or value of assets.

Some would argue the recent ISBoxer changes will significantly hurt their bottom line. Need more examples?
Elizabeth Norn
Nornir Research
Nornir Empire
#148 - 2014-12-04 00:54:14 UTC
I don't get what you mean by the time card statement and I don't think the recent key broadcasting change will affect their bottom line much.
Toad The Hitchhiker
Science and Trade Institute
Caldari State
#149 - 2014-12-04 00:58:52 UTC
Elizabeth Norn wrote:
I don't get what you mean by the time card statement and I don't think the recent key broadcasting change will affect their bottom line much.


Off topic, but you don't think banning the use of a tool that let one guy use 30 of the same ship to alpha anything in the game is going to effect the number of accounts that guy keeps active?!

The time card thing is important because it is the reason we have PLEX today. They got rid of the 60 and 90 day time cards, which you bought and transferred in the forums in place of that we got 30 day market available in game assets.

What would prevent them from say losing a court case, or some other change in some other country's laws that would force them to take said assets back out of game? Maybe not make plex worthless, but definitely make it hard to sell 500 of them.
Candy Oshea
Techfree Investment Group
#150 - 2014-12-04 01:26:10 UTC  |  Edited by: Candy Oshea
Toad The Hitchhiker wrote:
Elizabeth Norn wrote:
I don't get what you mean by the time card statement and I don't think the recent key broadcasting change will affect their bottom line much.


Off topic, but you don't think banning the use of a tool that let one guy use 30 of the same ship to alpha anything in the game is going to effect the number of accounts that guy keeps active?!


Toad The Hitchhiker wrote:

Some would argue the recent ISBoxer changes will significantly hurt their bottom line. Need more examples?


The guy/multiboxer using isk to pay for his account, has no bearing on the amount of PLEX being generated by the players that buy them for RL money. so how does that affect the bottom line sonny? Will only affect the supply/demand in game. that & a sorebutt from the guy that can't multibox 30 miner accounts in his rented 0.0 space anymore.

iCandy  - I have accidently swallowed some Scrabble tiles, my next shit could spell disaster!

Toad The Hitchhiker
Science and Trade Institute
Caldari State
#151 - 2014-12-04 01:35:32 UTC
Candy Oshea wrote:
Toad The Hitchhiker wrote:
Elizabeth Norn wrote:
I don't get what you mean by the time card statement and I don't think the recent key broadcasting change will affect their bottom line much.


Off topic, but you don't think banning the use of a tool that let one guy use 30 of the same ship to alpha anything in the game is going to effect the number of accounts that guy keeps active?!


Toad The Hitchhiker wrote:

Some would argue the recent ISBoxer changes will significantly hurt their bottom line. Need more examples?


The guy/multiboxer using isk to pay for his account, has no bearing on the amount of PLEX being generated by the players that buy them for RL money. so how does that affect the bottom line sonny? Will only affect the supply/demand in game. that & a sorebutt from the guy that can't multibox 30 miner accounts in his rented 0.0 space anymore.



what?! How can you say that the guy/multiboxer using isk to pay for his account has no bearing on amount of PLEX generated?

It does not matter if an account is plex, paypal, month 2 month, they all have to be bought from CCP. If 1000 accounts are unsubbed, then 1000 less plex are needed every month. If they are still being bought but not used, then CCP gets the cash for the plex but retains the liability on their sheets for the time unused.

Or do you think Sleepers drop plex?

Seriously don't be one of those people that think there is some magical disconnect between plex and CCP subscriptions. Every plex is either a 1 month subscription, or a liability towards 1 month of subscription not yet realized... until the day CCP changes policy.
Candy Oshea
Techfree Investment Group
#152 - 2014-12-04 03:27:11 UTC
Toad The Hitchhiker wrote:


what?! How can you say that the guy/multiboxer using isk to pay for his account has no bearing on amount of PLEX generated?

.... Irrelevant rant .....



Of course they are not, no bearing at all.

The buyer of PLEX for ISK from the market (multiboxer in this case) has nothing to do with the seller of PLEX (Brave newbie alt, Yourself whose account is already active), or the quantity of PLEX being Generated. (Weekend sale).

I'm not arguing What PLEX is or what it is not Lol

So back to the bottom line. I'll elaborate why i think its a bogus claim that this will "hurt" CCP, as your strawman argument would imply based on the ISBoxer changes.

The amount of accounts being 'unsubbed' due to this, is a tainted sample, that you or no-one else can accurately portray. To attain the impact, you need numbers which are unobtainable.

1) Eve Subscriber numbers (total) - how they sub is irrelevant, as you so accurately stated earlier, albeit in an extremely butthurt manner.
2) Amount of accounts that Unsub their multibox alts.
3) Amount of players that simply adapt (use other software) or the Tab key.
4) Amount of accounts are made that RE-sub due to this, or the concurrent new Expac with all the new Do-dahs & systems to explore.

Even if 1000 Hearsay accounts unsub, Were talking ~ 0.2 - 0.25% of total 400-500k Subs. Is that significant? IMO no, In yours Yes?

iCandy  - I have accidently swallowed some Scrabble tiles, my next shit could spell disaster!

Toad The Hitchhiker
Science and Trade Institute
Caldari State
#153 - 2014-12-04 03:33:29 UTC  |  Edited by: Toad The Hitchhiker
Again, all plex has to be bought before it is sold on the market. If less people are buying, more will have to be bought to purchase the same amount of isk, which in turn drives the price down. This is supply and demand. This is what the thread is about. Please use some common sense.

And the silly comment about .2% or whatever... come on, you really think all 400k accounts in this game are funded through plex? We actually have no idea how many are or are not, but we do have market data. Even a 30 plex a day drop in volume could have substantial effect on the plex market short term.

So yes, it is ******** to think that plex demand only effects sellers and not buyers from CCP.

At the end of the argument the theory being proposed is that PLEX is a 100% safe investment, which is untrue. The various reasons are posted, mine included. The most important I haven't mentioned yet is that there is an abundant supply held by very wealthy players, should one decide to tank the price, they could.
Candy Oshea
Techfree Investment Group
#154 - 2014-12-04 03:40:40 UTC  |  Edited by: Candy Oshea
Toad The Hitchhiker wrote:
Again, all plex has to be bought before it is sold on the market. If less people are buying, more will have to be bought to purchase the same amount of isk, which in turn drives the price down. This is supply and demand. This is what the thread is about. Please use some common sense.

And the silly comment about .2% or whatever... come on, you really think all 400k accounts in this game are funded through plex? We actually have no idea how many are or are not, but we do have market data. Even a 30 plex a day drop in volume could have substantial effect on the plex market short term.

So yes, it is ******** to think that plex demand only effects sellers and not buyers from CCP.


So one post your asking if this will affect the bottom line of CCP (which is what my response was too),

Now you are arguing about supply and demand, and have somehow projected that i think 400k accounts are plexed? the 0.2 is using your 1000 Unsubs/400k accounts. Its silly because you don't understand?

I take it you are a butthurt alt of a multiboxer, Gotcha.

EDIT:

Toad The Hitchhiker wrote:

At the end of the argument the theory being proposed is that PLEX is a 100% safe investment, which is untrue. The various reasons are posted, mine included. The most important I haven't mentioned yet is that there is an abundant supply held by very wealthy players, should one decide to tank the price, they could.


Who exactly is proposing that plex is a 100% safe investment?

iCandy  - I have accidently swallowed some Scrabble tiles, my next shit could spell disaster!

Toad The Hitchhiker
Science and Trade Institute
Caldari State
#155 - 2014-12-04 03:46:19 UTC
Candy Oshea wrote:
Toad The Hitchhiker wrote:
Again, all plex has to be bought before it is sold on the market. If less people are buying, more will have to be bought to purchase the same amount of isk, which in turn drives the price down. This is supply and demand. This is what the thread is about. Please use some common sense.

And the silly comment about .2% or whatever... come on, you really think all 400k accounts in this game are funded through plex? We actually have no idea how many are or are not, but we do have market data. Even a 30 plex a day drop in volume could have substantial effect on the plex market short term.

So yes, it is ******** to think that plex demand only effects sellers and not buyers from CCP.


So one post your asking if this will affect the bottom line of CCP (which is what my response was too),

Now you are arguing about supply and demand, and have somehow projected that i think 400k accounts are plexed? the 0.2 is using your 1000 Unsubs/400k accounts. Its silly because you don't understand?

I take it you are a butthurt alt of a multiboxer, Gotcha.

EDIT:

Toad The Hitchhiker wrote:

At the end of the argument the theory being proposed is that PLEX is a 100% safe investment, which is untrue. The various reasons are posted, mine included. The most important I haven't mentioned yet is that there is an abundant supply held by very wealthy players, should one decide to tank the price, they could.


Who exactly is proposing that plex is a 100% safe investment?



So you use unrelated insults to minimize the points that I am making... got it.

Your argument was that 1000 subs lost wouldnt effect CCP or effect the Plex market. I argue that both your points are wrong.

The two reasons why is, 1000 lost subs hurts CCP no matter how they are funded and 1000 plex per month would be negative to the plex market because of supply and demand.

But you decided to go 1st grade school boy on me and call me names instead.
Candy Oshea
Techfree Investment Group
#156 - 2014-12-04 03:56:08 UTC
Except i didn't argue the effect of plex market, supply demand, in fact my first response to you was confirming this (go ahead and re-read, as i haven't edited)

Except i used a Random number, explained that it was a placeholder, and that 4 unknown factors are in play.

I think -1000 subs is negligible, you don't.

no-one cares dude.

iCandy  - I have accidently swallowed some Scrabble tiles, my next shit could spell disaster!

Alexi Stokov
State War Academy
Caldari State
#157 - 2014-12-04 19:11:16 UTC
Toad The Hitchhiker wrote:
Elizabeth Norn wrote:
Toad The Hitchhiker wrote:
Plex only has a value as long as CCP declares it is valid tender. The day that Plex is declared unsaleable, or non-market based is the day that all your time and effort is worthless.

Is this likely to happen? No
Could it happen? Yes

Before you say that CCP would never do such a thing it would behoove people to look at history. There are numerous examples of priceless items being made worthless with one devblog, including out of game assets.


Did any of those other changes remove a major source of income for CCP?



WTS 60 day time card... WTS 90 day time card?

Changes don't always have to remove something, or add something to significantly effect the game or value of assets.

Some would argue the recent ISBoxer changes will significantly hurt their bottom line. Need more examples?




How did the removal of purchasable 60 and 90 GTCs affect the value of existing 60 and 90 day GTCs?
SabotNoob
Doomheim
#158 - 2014-12-05 00:45:11 UTC
I just came back to EVE 4 days ago from a 10 month break. PLEX was 650-ish million when I left. Imagine my surprise.

What's further shocking is that I went through some of my random notes on the in-client notepad, and there was a reference to PLEX costing 325 million when I first started playing EVE in early 2010.

Hard to believe it rose by half a billion in 4 years.
Pak Narhoo
Splinter Foundation
#159 - 2014-12-05 09:53:50 UTC
SabotNoob wrote:
I just came back to EVE 4 days ago from a 10 month break. PLEX was 650-ish million when I left. Imagine my surprise.

What's further shocking is that I went through some of my random notes on the in-client notepad, and there was a reference to PLEX costing 325 million when I first started playing EVE in early 2010.

Hard to believe it rose by half a billion in 4 years.


I remember 2008 when 1 month GTC's where 230-250

Funny http://dl.eve-files.com/media/0801/GTC-1-02-08.zip (Posted - 2007.12.18)
Alexi Stokov
State War Academy
Caldari State
#160 - 2014-12-05 17:08:33 UTC
Pak Narhoo wrote:
SabotNoob wrote:
I just came back to EVE 4 days ago from a 10 month break. PLEX was 650-ish million when I left. Imagine my surprise.

What's further shocking is that I went through some of my random notes on the in-client notepad, and there was a reference to PLEX costing 325 million when I first started playing EVE in early 2010.

Hard to believe it rose by half a billion in 4 years.


I remember 2008 when 1 month GTC's where 230-250

Funny http://dl.eve-files.com/media/0801/GTC-1-02-08.zip (Posted - 2007.12.18)



I remember when you could get a 90 day GTC for 450 million. If it got to 530 that was "expensive"