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The War Zone

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Author
Nevil Oscillator
#1 - 2014-11-12 11:37:22 UTC
For those who have been there, might be aware of non FW players getting involved in the FW mechanics. This might be as innocent as an accidental encounter or as blatant as farming the plex sites for kills.

They might even be mercs working for or have a cosy relationship with the enemy.

Do they receive a faction hit for destroying a FW player ?

Can you view a non FW players faction standing ?
Jvpiter
Science and Trade Institute
Caldari State
#2 - 2014-11-12 13:35:34 UTC


You only get a standings drop to an NPC corp if you kill an FW player belonging to one. There are no standings implications for killing a PC Corp FWer.


No, you cannot view standings of another pilot, just their relative standing to you and yours.

Call me Joe.

Nevil Oscillator
#3 - 2014-11-12 13:49:46 UTC
Jvpiter wrote:


You only get a standings drop to an NPC corp if you kill an FW player belonging to one. There are no standings implications for killing a PC Corp FWer.


No, you cannot view standings of another pilot, just their relative standing to you and yours.



A FW player cannot be in a NPC corp other than the FW Corp.

I was on about faction standing not corporation standing. The most that can happen with corporation standing is that you can't use their agents.
Jvpiter
Science and Trade Institute
Caldari State
#4 - 2014-11-12 13:58:59 UTC


Correct. NPC corpies are solo FWers.

You do not have faction standings implications for killing another player, but killing NPCs will come with a faction standings hit.

Call me Joe.

Nevil Oscillator
#5 - 2014-11-12 19:49:08 UTC
Jvpiter wrote:


Correct. NPC corpies are solo FWers.




If you are in a standard NPC corp, you must leave it to join FW

If you are in a player corp you must leave it to join FW

Exception being if the whole player corp signs up to FW

So the only NPC corp that a FW player can belong to is a FW department.

These four

Amarr: 24th Imperial Crusade
Caldari: State Protectorate
Gallente: Federal Defence Union
Minmatar: Tribal Liberation Force

You can't be a FW player in for example

Center for Advanced Studies
Pator Tech School
Brutor Tribe
Amarr Civil Service
Deep Core Mining Inc
Lai Dai
Roden Shipyards
Impetus
Freedom Extension

Or any of the other multitude of NPC corps
ShahFluffers
Ice Fire Warriors
#6 - 2014-11-12 20:08:53 UTC  |  Edited by: ShahFluffers
Ah Nevil... still having trouble with reading comprehension.

Neutral players will lose standings against the NPC FW corp if they attack an FW player who is a part of it.

Due to the nature of the standings mechanics, these players will also lose some standings with the parent Faction... but only in very small percentages (see: it is negligible unless you make it a full time job).


None of this applies if a person is in a Player corporation (no standings hit, no problem).
Hell... FW corporations can declare war on each other within the same militia. No standings hit there either.
Nevil Oscillator
#7 - 2014-11-12 20:40:53 UTC
ShahFluffers wrote:
Ah Nevil... still having trouble with reading comprehension.

Neutral players will lose standings against the NPC FW corp if they attack an FW player who is a part of it.



Check the OP question mark,

Good answer.

So that part of the mechanism is working,

How do FW players know if a neutral player lurking in a system has a low standing with the NPC FW corp ?
ISD LackOfFaith
ISD Community Communications Liaisons
ISD Alliance
#8 - 2014-11-12 20:47:07 UTC
Nevil Oscillator wrote:
How do FW players know if a neutral player lurking in a system has a low standing with the NPC FW corp ?


They don't. Standings (FW and otherwise) are not public.

ISD LackOfFaith

Captain

Community Communication Liaisons (CCLs)

Interstellar Services Department

I do not respond to Eve Mail or anything other than the forums.

Xercodo
Cruor Angelicus
#9 - 2014-11-12 21:12:13 UTC
How many times do we need to tell you that we know already?

An NPC FW person is someone in those 4 corps, and that's what he's been saying the whole time.

The Drake is a Lie

Nevil Oscillator
#10 - 2014-11-12 21:50:23 UTC
ISD LackOfFaith wrote:


Standings (FW and otherwise) are not public.


I get the fact that members only and public are the same thing because someone would just sign up an Alt and broadcast everything on a site somewhere but at the same time what use are standings if people in the corp don't know what they are ?
Xercodo
Cruor Angelicus
#11 - 2014-11-13 20:29:03 UTC
Nevil Oscillator wrote:
ISD LackOfFaith wrote:


Standings (FW and otherwise) are not public.


I get the fact that members only and public are the same thing because someone would just sign up an Alt and broadcast everything on a site somewhere but at the same time what use are standings if people in the corp don't know what they are ?


Aside from a player corp that needs corp-wide average standings to get into FW, what does the corp care what your standings are?

Also, aside from the "show composition" button for a corporate standing to an NPC entity a player corp doesn't know what anyone's standings are, so just signing up an alt is useless.

Since you no longer need standing to make a highsec POS the only reason why a corp or alliance would care is to join FW, otherwise standings are pretty useless to know for anyone besides yourself.

The Drake is a Lie

Nevil Oscillator
#12 - 2014-11-13 23:26:08 UTC
Xercodo wrote:


Since you no longer need standing to make a highsec POS the only reason why a corp or alliance would care is to join FW, otherwise standings are pretty useless to know for anyone besides yourself.



Player corporation standings are useful.

If a player has killed a lot of members of the corp you are in then there is good reason for members to be on guard against him.

This completely fails if you don''t let your corp members know about it which is why you can set corporation standings.

So why do NPC corporations do something so stupid as to keep them secret ?
Steppa Musana
Doomheim
#13 - 2014-11-14 04:13:01 UTC  |  Edited by: Steppa Musana
Nevil Oscillator wrote:
Xercodo wrote:


Since you no longer need standing to make a highsec POS the only reason why a corp or alliance would care is to join FW, otherwise standings are pretty useless to know for anyone besides yourself.



Player corporation standings are useful.

If a player has killed a lot of members of the corp you are in then there is good reason for members to be on guard against him.

This completely fails if you don''t let your corp members know about it which is why you can set corporation standings.

So why do NPC corporations do something so stupid as to keep them secret ?

Well it might not accurately represent the risk. As an example a FW player in enemy space being shot down at high-sec trade hubs by a non-FW player who's shooting all criminals in sight. That non-FW player is not necessarily a risk to that FW player's corp while in friendly low-sec space, he might in fact never fight in low at all. A human player is needed for specifics else standings like you're mentioning become arbitrary on some level.
Jvpiter
Science and Trade Institute
Caldari State
#14 - 2014-11-14 04:20:23 UTC
Nevil Oscillator wrote:


Player corporation standings are useful.

If a player has killed a lot of members of the corp you are in then there is good reason for members to be on guard against him.

This completely fails if you don''t let your corp members know about it which is why you can set corporation standings.

So why do NPC corporations do something so stupid as to keep them secret ?



If you want the delightful feature of corp standings as a guide in Local, then join a player corporation. The last thing we need is to dilute this feature and grant it to an NPC corp.


And yes, yes, a FW NPC corp. I'm looking for an eyeroll icon. eyeroll.gif. Did that work? Oh, forget it.

Call me Joe.

Nevil Oscillator
#15 - 2014-11-14 14:57:52 UTC
Steppa Musana wrote:

Well it might not accurately represent the risk. As an example a FW player in enemy space being shot down at high-sec trade hubs by a non-FW player who's shooting all criminals in sight. That non FW player is not necessarily a risk to that FW player's corp while in friendly low-sec space, he might in fact never fight in low at all. A human player is needed for specifics else standings like you're mentioning become arbitrary on some level.


I'm not sure you take a standing hit for shooting a criminal, is it going to be a huge standing hit ?
in any case is that going to happen 5 times a day from the same pilot ?

You obviously haven't seen it, it's just ringing the dinner bell for a slaughter of players with less than a year experience. They know where then FW ship needs to go, how long the ship is going to have to sit there like a duck shoot, they even know what the maximum size of ship is going to be in each plex.

Yes you can have your own corp but how does that solve the problem ? You have hundreds of neutrals doing this because it is the easiest way to get kills.
I use and have player corps, I see no desperate need to nerf NPC corps.
And who is to say it isn't an enemy faction alt being used to prevent any warning.
Serene Repose
#16 - 2014-11-14 15:04:43 UTC
I can tell this is a problem that must come up a lot! The implications are...implications! *gets out magnifying glass*

Something should be done! Or, not! Shocked

We must accommodate the idiocracy.

Nevil Oscillator
#17 - 2014-11-14 15:19:57 UTC  |  Edited by: Nevil Oscillator
Serene Repose wrote:
I can tell this is a problem that must come up a lot! The implications are...implications! *gets out magnifying glass*

Something should be done! Or, not! Shocked


Yes you should be able to see the standing, that way known enemy mercenaries and recurring soldier murders are noted by the Corp eventually. I can't think of any major problem with that but I don't know everything.
Have you seen the war zone? it is lovely this time of year
Nevil Oscillator
#18 - 2014-11-15 01:25:56 UTC  |  Edited by: Nevil Oscillator
You have personal standing on overview maybe you could just have an option to exchange that for corporation standing.
But you r right, why have corporation standing when you can have useful stuff like sec status less than zero and player has bounty ?
Nevil Oscillator
#19 - 2014-11-16 15:23:00 UTC
OK, I guess people are not understanding this because when you go to low sec it is every man/woman/green furry alien for themselves. There are players out in low sec doing industry and lawful activities and don't farm plexes, if FW players just shoot everyone on sight they will become outlaws.

I got the impression that isn't quite what the developers had in mind for everyone that joins FW but if your casualties from neutrals is 500% greater than your casualties from the enemy is that going to continue operating as a militia ?
Jvpiter
Science and Trade Institute
Caldari State
#20 - 2014-11-16 16:02:27 UTC


No, we understand what you're asking for. You are asking for free intel. "Point out my targets for me!" If someone is a bad, bad person you don't want to manually add him with Terrible Standing, or use Zkill, or use Pirate's Friend, or be in a PC Corp with an extensive Standings list.


No, you just want free intel so that when you Show Info on a pilot it will automatically tell you what that pilot generally does. Or, you want it in Local too, I can't tell.


The only in-game intel available to you is Sec Status. For the rest you actually have to figure out what that person is up to by observing their actions, identifying their ship, etc.


If you are wandering around with a rifle and a bayonet, nothing in existence will point out enemy targets to you. You have to suss that out yourself by using common sense and your experience.


P.S. PC Corp standings, editable by corp or alliance Diplomats or Directors, *are* available in Local along with Sec Status, Bounty, etc.


Here is a thread discussing the change from visible to invisible of the information you want in Show Info:
http://eve-search.com/thread/1513631-0/page/all

Call me Joe.

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