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[ISHTI] Condemnation of Pornography – Legal Statement
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Andreus Ixiris
Center for Advanced Studies
Gallente Federation
#21 - 2011-11-28 12:15:08 UTC
Leopold Caine wrote:
Heeeeeere we go again.


Did someone say my name? My ears are all a-twitch!

Andreus Ixiris > A Civire without a chin is barely a Civire at all.

Pieter Tuulinen > He'd be Civirely disadvantaged, Andreus.

Andreus Ixiris > ...

Andreus Ixiris > This is why we're at war.
Telegram Sam
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#22 - 2011-11-28 17:52:24 UTC
Many of us in the Minmatar Republic look forward to seeing this Amarrian work of art.
Kalaratiri
Full Broadside
Deepwater Hooligans
#23 - 2011-11-28 18:43:58 UTC
Telegram Sam wrote:
Many of us in the Minmatar Republic look forward to seeing this Amarrian work of art.


And many more of us don't give a ****

She's mad but she's magic, there's no lie in her fire.

This is possibly one of the worst threads in the history of these forums.  - CCP Falcon

I don't remember when last time you said something that wasn't either dumb or absurd. - Diana Kim
Valerie Valate
Church of The Crimson Saviour
#24 - 2011-11-28 18:45:45 UTC
down with this sort of thing

Doctor V. Valate, Professor of Archaeology at Kaztropolis Imperial University.
Thgil Goldcore
Ministry of War
Amarr Empire
#25 - 2011-11-28 18:54:53 UTC
Mikkel Lybecker wrote:


That's because it's a massively non-useful dead horse go-nowhere discussion.

I get a furniture catalogue sent to me by email, I see furniture. Someone else with a furniture fetish (probably an Amarrian) gets the same catalogue sent to them and sees arousal material. To them, it's ****. To me, it's shopping. Likewise, some people like to watch holoreels of adults in consenting reproductive situations. I really don't. To them, that's ****. To me, it's either comedy or tragedy, or in some cases horror - but it's definitely not ****.

There's just nothing more to say about this beyond "I like X, you like Y, so what of it'. Pornography, like art, is 100% in the eye of the beholder, so you can't ever really make any sensible or useful conclusions from this question.

And kicking the girl out of the family for stashing a bit of film seems a bit harsh, but then, we are talking Amarr here, so I guess whatever. I'm sure the family will sort it out somehow. Or maybe they wont. In any event, there are more important things to think about. Like what I'm having for dinner tonight. Who votes that I start a cooking thread?


Intent is huge here though. If she intended to make smut, then her family has every right to striking her from the family. If she was tricked into making smut (but otherwise intended well), it may be harsh, but she should know better... someone in her position should have plenty of people around her to warn her. Though if she did mean it as art, and it was done well as such, then perhaps its a little hyperbolic...

As far as the furniture example, I don't buy it. If your familiar with the test of an idiot in a hurry test, it wouldn't stand up. For those unfamiliar, the idiot in a hurry test is basically a simple question, 'would an complete idiot (with no knowledge of the subject matter) passing by it quickly confuse it for anything other than what it is.' No one, no matter how stupid or rushed would ever confuse a furniture catalog with porn. If they had some strange fetish, they still would know it was not smut, just that they liked what they saw. Likewise there are some works which are clearly pornographic, and while they may include some elements of an artistic work, they aren't art.
Rodj Blake
PIE Inc.
Khimi Harar
#26 - 2011-11-28 19:15:53 UTC
Valerie Valate wrote:
down with this sort of thing


Careful now.

Dolce et decorum est pro Imperium mori
Astrid Stjerna
Sebiestor Tribe
#27 - 2011-11-28 19:17:11 UTC
Thgil Goldcore wrote:
Likewise there are some works which are clearly pornographic, and while they may include some elements of an artistic work, they aren't art.


So, the issue becomes: who decides what's 'art'?

There was an artist, some time ago, that purchased a waste recycler, gave it a fancy-sounding title and entered it in an artshow unaltered. When they asked him why it should be called 'art', he said 'Because I say so'.

The Idiot in a Hurry test is a good standard by which to judge the value of an artistic work, but the test is dependent on what the viewer defines as 'art'. Some may actually find the idea of 'furniture-as-art' appealing, and view a furniture catalogue as an example of artistic expression.

I can't get rid of my darn signature!  Oh, wait....
Andreus Ixiris
Center for Advanced Studies
Gallente Federation
#28 - 2011-11-28 19:36:00 UTC
Likewise, you get some people who equivocate even within art forms. For instance, imagine the hidebound critic who insists that piano concertos stop at Vierre, and refuses to accept that the latest release from Arella Kassigainen is even music. (Incidentally, seriously, listen to Arella Kassigainen's latest release. Proof, if proof were needed, that just because Nugoeihuvi are businessmen first and foremost, it doesn't mean they can't publish true gems in the music industry from time to time).

Andreus Ixiris > A Civire without a chin is barely a Civire at all.

Pieter Tuulinen > He'd be Civirely disadvantaged, Andreus.

Andreus Ixiris > ...

Andreus Ixiris > This is why we're at war.
Anabella Rella
Gradient
Electus Matari
#29 - 2011-11-28 19:36:15 UTC
For such a supposedly pious and reserved lot you Amarr certainly enjoy a good public flogging. Totally aside from the argument of whether the work in question is artistic or prurient, why the need to air your dirty laundry in public? It seems to me that this is a private matter that should have remained within the family.

Thanks for the many jokes that are coming out of this, though.


When the world is running down, you make the best of what's still around.
Tobias Primus
Virtus Crusade
Brave Collective
#30 - 2011-11-28 19:45:57 UTC
Odelya d'Hanguest is a trusted and loyal Servant of God and Empire. Might I remind you all of her glorious work and theology leading to the devout Book of Prayers.

She has previously hinted to me of past behaviours not in keeping of the Faith, and devoid of her Family's pleasure, though I have never, along with her Father and the Empire, considered them sufficient cause to dispell my fervent belief in her true pure nature. It was perhaps a wandering from the enlightened path which gave her occasion for reflection, and a closer embrace of truth.

I see only malicious accusations from her Family. I see that she is condemned only by lawyers employed by them, without fair and open deliberation. Most importantly, I see no clear, irrefutable presented evidence that she has violated either Divine or Natural Law.

Let us remain silent on this matter and allow frivolous matters to fade.

Odelya d'Hanguest remains a trusted and loyal member of the Empire, with Unity and warm embrace.

Tobias Primus
Loyal Servant of the Empire
Valerie Valate
Church of The Crimson Saviour
#31 - 2011-11-28 20:21:15 UTC
Rodj Blake wrote:
Valerie Valate wrote:
down with this sort of thing


Careful now.


Quite. it is UnAmarrian to rush.

Doctor V. Valate, Professor of Archaeology at Kaztropolis Imperial University.
ValentinaDLM
SoE Roughriders
Electus Matari
#32 - 2011-11-28 20:34:08 UTC
Astrid Stjerna wrote:

So, the issue becomes: who decides what's 'art'?


I think most in Amarr would agree with whatever the Theology Council said on the matter, which is probably precisely why the theology council doesn't say much on things like this, because if they really were to have their say on everything in culture and society no one anywhere in the Empire would be having any fun.

I however, being a capsuleer and not really subject to nor caring about anything the Theology council says, have a differing question: Why would art and pornography be mutually exclusive categories?
Astrid Stjerna
Sebiestor Tribe
#33 - 2011-11-28 23:26:18 UTC
ValentinaDLM wrote:
Astrid Stjerna wrote:

So, the issue becomes: who decides what's 'art'?


I think most in Amarr would agree with whatever the Theology Council said on the matter, which is probably precisely why the theology council doesn't say much on things like this, because if they really were to have their say on everything in culture and society no one anywhere in the Empire would be having any fun.

I however, being a capsuleer and not really subject to nor caring about anything the Theology council says, have a differing question: Why would art and pornography be mutually exclusive categories?


That's actually an interesting point: what's the difference between me showing myself off, and a statue of me that shows the same thing?

I can't get rid of my darn signature!  Oh, wait....
Mikkel Lybecker
Native Freshfood
Minmatar Republic
#34 - 2011-11-28 23:50:52 UTC
It's hard to recycle my dead horse into cat food while you're all still whipping it.
Ciarente
Toin Night Research
#35 - 2011-11-29 03:35:29 UTC
Mikkel Lybecker wrote:
Who votes that I start a cooking thread?


If you're busy, I always find a supper of fish and rimpon with shrip and neglippine takes only a few minutes to whip up.
Andreus Ixiris
Center for Advanced Studies
Gallente Federation
#36 - 2011-11-29 03:47:23 UTC
Ciarente wrote:
If you're busy, I always find a supper of fish and rimpon with shrip and neglippine takes only a few minutes to whip up.


I actually took a leaf out of the Achuran cookbook. Throw chicken, red peppers and noodles together in a pan with sunflower oil and a liberal slug of rice wine - or substitute white grape wine if you prefer. Dust generously with chilli, black pepper and cinnamon, and fry for about five to seven minutes.

It serves just about any purpose - tasty convenience food, or a simple but impressive dish for guests that takes little time to prepare.

Andreus Ixiris > A Civire without a chin is barely a Civire at all.

Pieter Tuulinen > He'd be Civirely disadvantaged, Andreus.

Andreus Ixiris > ...

Andreus Ixiris > This is why we're at war.
Tarryn Nightstorm
Hellstar Towing and Recovery
#37 - 2011-11-29 21:59:59 UTC
Rodj Blake wrote:
I refuse to believe this until I've examined the evidence.


I'm sure your...aaaahh...working hand...approves of this prospect, yes?

(Just as an aside: Sanctimonious Amarrian hypocrisy is fun!)

Star Wars: the Old Republic may not be EVE. But I'll take the sound of dual blaster-pistols over "NURVV CLAOKING NAOW!!!11oneone!!" any day of the week.
Tarryn Nightstorm
Hellstar Towing and Recovery
#38 - 2011-11-29 22:10:43 UTC
Gottii wrote:
Thgil Goldcore wrote:
Gottii wrote:
Rodj Blake wrote:
I refuse to believe this until I've examined the evidence.



No doubt alone....in your quarters....throughout the night.


Glad we got the mature Matari' opinion on the matter.


[...] enslave my kind and further our development as mature human beings....


^^In her quarters...throughout the night, and many nights to, errrm...well, come.^^

Mind you, if that's the form this much-ballyhooed next Reclaiming I keep hearing about is to take, then I'd be...down for it Twisted

(Tarryn doesn't quite cut the camera-feed before the picture shows him trying, and failing, to smother a giggle)

Star Wars: the Old Republic may not be EVE. But I'll take the sound of dual blaster-pistols over "NURVV CLAOKING NAOW!!!11oneone!!" any day of the week.
zero2espect
Space-Brewery-Association
#39 - 2011-11-30 07:51:32 UTC  |  Edited by: zero2espect
It is against 0000 policy to comment on any Legionnaire's activities whether past or present.

All that can be said is that upon entering the Legion Gates and volunteering to earn the right to wear the Kepi Blanc, Odelya d'Hanguest forgo any and all links to her previous life. On 2011.04.28 the entity formally known as Odelya d'Hanguest ceased to exist for those outside of our small family. Her new family of warior brothers and sisters now provide for her every want and need. As with all Legionnaires, we will be with her to the very end, she will be part of our history forever.

For what reason this topic has been started is not my place to comment.

[As sung]
Non, Je Ne Regrette Rien
Non! Rien de rien ...
Non! Je ne regrette rien
Ni le bien qu'on m'a fait ni le mal
Tout ça m'est bien égal!

Non! Rien de rien ...
Non! Je ne regrette rien...
C'est payé, balayé, oublié
Je me fous du passé!

Avec mes souvenirs
J'ai allumé le feu
Mes chagrins, mes plaisirs
Je n'ai plus besoin d'eux!

Balayés les amours
Avec leurs trémolos
Balayés pour toujours
Je repars à zéro ...

Non! Rien de rien ...
Non! Je ne regrette rien ...
Ni le bien qu'on m'a fait ni le mal
Tout ça m'est bien égal!

Non! Rien de rien ...
Non! Je ne regrette rien ...
Car ma vie, car mes joies
Aujourd'hui ça commence avec toi!

[Translation]
No! Absolutely nothing...
No! I regret nothing
Neither the good that I've done nor the bad
All this is much the same to me!

No! Absolutely nothing...
No! I regret nothing...
It is paid, swept away, forgotten
I don't care about the past!

With my souvenirs
I lit a fire
My sorrows, my pleasures
I need them no more!

Swept away the love affairs
With their tremors
Swept away forever
I leave with nothing ...

No! Absolutely nothing...
No! I regret nothing
Neither the good that I've done nor the bad
All this is much the same to me!

No! Absolutely nothing...
No! I regret nothing...
Because my life, because my joys
Today that begins with you!
Andreus Ixiris
Center for Advanced Studies
Gallente Federation
#40 - 2011-11-30 10:06:26 UTC  |  Edited by: Andreus Ixiris
Interesting that you'd choose a Gallentean love song for the purpose of describing your relationship with her, though...

Andreus Ixiris > A Civire without a chin is barely a Civire at all.

Pieter Tuulinen > He'd be Civirely disadvantaged, Andreus.

Andreus Ixiris > ...

Andreus Ixiris > This is why we're at war.