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So who will be moving to THERA? (Jita without Concord)

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epicurus ataraxia
Illusion of Solitude.
Illusion of Solitude
#241 - 2014-11-28 09:48:20 UTC
Zappity wrote:
I had a look at Thera on Singularity. It is hard to see how this will turn into another Jita. Sure, the stations will be stocked but the prices will be atrocious. The connections are:

Q063
This wormhole seems to lead into high security space.
Up to medium sized ships can pass through this wormhole.

V898
This wormhole seems to lead into low security space.
Larger ships can pass through this wormhole.

E587
This wormhole seems to lead into null security space.
Very large ships can pass through this wormhole.

Only the null E587 allows freighters through. This means that if you want to properly stock Thera with hulls you have three options:


  1. Fly or jump your freighter to the null entry and come in through there.
  2. Import hulls in a smaller industrial one at a time (for cruisers) or just fly them in manually.
  3. Build them in Thera (which just removes the problem one level for material importation unless you are crazy enough to try and mine in this system).


This is disappointing. I was looking forward to the challenge of stocking this system but I think the risk is too high. I don’t understand why freighters would be excluded from low and highsec connections.

Does CCP think that the risk for freighters would be too low? It will be enormous regardless of where you jump in from. At least open up the lowsec connection please.


I notice that there may also be the strong possibility that there'll be a significant number of wandering or roaming connections.
these will not reopening from Kspace due to the low numbers of people on SISI.
Fozzie also mentioned initially opening holes so that some or all appeared on the test server opening into Thera, Naturally he will not be doing this 24/7 while it is on test, so the numbers are likely to be considerably higher than we are seeing.

Moving forward, we do not know what they have planned for later, why it is expected to become a major trade hub, But there are some Very clear pointers that indicate where this is going........
Interesting times ahead.

There is one EvE. Many people. Many lifestyles. WE are EvE
Aaron
Eternal Frontier
#242 - 2014-11-28 12:02:49 UTC
If a 1000+ man alliance can get in there and secure it then I guess they can make it into whatever they want.

They could keep it for themselves and have 100s of guys camping stations in order to secure their corp/alliance docking only or they could do what I tried to do and create a trade hub/community using the standing setting to allow traders and customers to operate there. A trade hub is still a possibility, one which I think can make trillions if its done correctly.

Most eve players don't see the benefit of setting others blue for the benefit of trade or creating a community, when I tried this I was trolled, ridiculed and insulted. Now I see that he who has the biggest guns makes the rules, its really as simple as that.

I think CCP knows what they're doing, they've prompted us to take certain actions. They've created an area of space where only team work on a massive scale will allow you to make lots of isk.

The very nature of eve is "I killed you" CCP even make songs about this fact. Why can't it be "I helped you" ?

If there was a trustworthy corp/alliance controlling and blue'ing traders and customers I for one would set up there and be happy to contribute isk to whoever is controlling Thera. Does such an honourable entity exist? No.

Either way, I am keen to see what happens in Thera.

Fear no one, live life, be free, accept the truth, do not judge others, defend yourself, fight hard till the end, meditate on problems and be prosperous. Things to exist by. -- RAIN Arthie
Magnasis Drakkenwolf
#243 - 2014-11-30 06:57:01 UTC
I expect to get blown up a lot there...

There can be only one..

http://www.youtube.com/user/KensCrazyGaming
Persifonne
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#244 - 2014-11-30 07:05:46 UTC
They just introduced new dictor scripts and bubbles right? Someone should start selling those mods cuz gonna be like 2000 up on the 4 stations and wh exits all the time.

Also lol@ccp for making like 1 wandering hisec exit lol. Great way to get players in that hole........ SIKE!
Shizuken
Venerated Stars
#245 - 2014-11-30 18:54:47 UTC
Ka'Narlist wrote:
Ranger 1 wrote:
if indeed a Jita without Concord can be controlled by one entity?

Jita means a major trade hub where everyone and their mother brings their stuff to sell it.
How do you think this will happen in a system where everyone is ganking everyone?


Which means less selection, less volume, and higher prices.

PvP Gank zone it will be for sure.

A robust market for all wares it will not.
Attivol
#246 - 2014-11-30 21:21:49 UTC  |  Edited by: Attivol
Sounds like Thera is all set to become the sphincter of the EvE universe.
Leannor
State War Academy
Caldari State
#247 - 2014-12-01 13:33:57 UTC
Shizuken wrote:
Ka'Narlist wrote:
Ranger 1 wrote:
if indeed a Jita without Concord can be controlled by one entity?

Jita means a major trade hub where everyone and their mother brings their stuff to sell it.
How do you think this will happen in a system where everyone is ganking everyone?


Which means less selection, less volume, and higher prices.

PvP Gank zone it will be for sure.

A robust market for all wares it will not.

maybe, you've got the supply bit right, (less supply can lead to higher prices - scarcity) but ... you're fogetting the other half that is required, demand. If demand is not there prices will fall.

Jita exists because so many people can trade in safety, both sides. It's also why it's a buyers market usually, not a sellers market. Demand often drives prices a little lower than most other places, but this can be maintained because there's such a volume of traffic that prices are constantly correcting.

If people aren't able to supply the market, and the people buying aren't able to buy safely, then, both supply and demand do not exist, and that means all it does it match every other 0.0 system and many lo-sec systems. Where there is usually the absence of a market.

I'm looking forward to seeing what specific conditions CCp are going to provide to 'enable' this to become a trade hub (and it will be a time before it happens), or what very specific attributes the system will have to make it worth while fighting over (location isn't 'everything').

Ore and Minerals have their Hi-sec low value and 0.0 High Value.
Moons have their Lo-Sec low value and 0.0 High Value.
PI has the HIgh Sec low volume and 0.0 HIgh Volume.
Market has HIgh Sec Boom and 0.0 Void.

Would be great if we can turn around the last one ... P

"Lykouleon wrote:

STOP TOUCHING ICONIC SHIP PARTS"
Aaron
Eternal Frontier
#248 - 2014-12-05 00:33:09 UTC  |  Edited by: Aaron
Leannor wrote:


I'm looking forward to seeing what specific conditions CCp are going to provide to 'enable' this to become a trade hub (and it will be a time before it happens), or what very specific attributes the system will have to make it worth while fighting over (location isn't 'everything').

Ore and Minerals have their Hi-sec low value and 0.0 High Value.
Moons have their Lo-Sec low value and 0.0 High Value.
PI has the HIgh Sec low volume and 0.0 HIgh Volume.
Market has HIgh Sec Boom and 0.0 Void.

Would be great if we can turn around the last one ... P



Why has CCP got to provide something to 'enable' Thera to become a trade hub? In my opinion CCP has given us more than enough so that we the players can turn it into a trade hub. CCP has given us a blank canvas and some paint where we can draw whatever virtual reality we the players want.

I have tried projects involving the eve community and populating an NPC region of space called Stain. The projects have ceased and on all of the attempts I felt we only scratched the surface of what NPC 0.0 has to offer. I felt the projects failed because I got involved with people who did not have a keen interest in creating an economy in Stain. Lots of people found it difficult to adapt to the harsh conditions in Stain.

I think if Thera is to become a trade hub then we the players will have to use whatever means available to us to make this happen. Based on the facts we know so far I believe It will require a blue coalition to defend the stations dock and isk grinders if this is achieved the economy will be extended to Thera. I don't think any alliance would be prepared to share Thera with anyone else if they are in a position to lock it down, they are more likely to keep it all for themselves.

I might be able to find the time to create a corp/alliance that will be commissioned by it's blues to defend Thera in order for a trade hub to grow. There would be a fee charged for blue standing, the isk generated will be used to equip well trained pilots to provide escorts and station dock clearance services to the people of Thera. Anyone choosing to finance such a corp will be investing in Thera to make it a safer place to dwell in.

Fear no one, live life, be free, accept the truth, do not judge others, defend yourself, fight hard till the end, meditate on problems and be prosperous. Things to exist by. -- RAIN Arthie
Malcolm Faust
Cthulhu Expeditionary Force
#249 - 2014-12-05 01:55:48 UTC
-I believe it's going to be >350 au across, that's twice as big as the largest system I've ever flown through (around 130au).

-It's going to be Lore heavy, lots of storyline role play stuff for those that are into it. And for the record, RP is what keeps expanding the game like this. Want more? Get deeper into the game and understand what going on and why.

-Expect lots of T3 cloaky cruisers (and other ships) that are immune to non targeted interdiction.

-Don't bother docking, because undocking would just about be suicide for anyone who isn't well versed in undocking mechanics.

-There will be a lot of unsolicited fights, but I don't think there will be a controlling faction because there isn't enough isk to be made from controlling Thera. I think there is some Ice mining and DED sites, no POS though.

-You can shoot anyone you want, all the time. But that's no different from low/null/wh space anyway. So we're back to EVE Lore.
Doramina
Elite Firebird Investments
#250 - 2014-12-05 02:08:19 UTC
If there's multiple random connections into Thera. It won't be like shooting into a fish bowl gate camps.
W3370Pi4
State War Academy
Caldari State
#251 - 2014-12-06 11:47:45 UTC
In light of the impending Rhea release

Please join the "Thera Public Intel" channel
Zappity
New Eden Tank Testing Services
#252 - 2014-12-10 09:27:07 UTC
Thera is great. I have my characters installed in the system now. My experience with the forecast "lock down" consisted on a Vexor Navy and a Crow on an entry half a dozen jumps from Amarr. No trouble at all.

Lots of ships on the undocks but I didn't see a single bubble in system today.

Zappity's Adventures for a taste of lowsec and nullsec.
knobber Jobbler
State War Academy
Caldari State
#253 - 2014-12-10 09:39:15 UTC
Leannor wrote:


I'm looking forward to seeing what specific conditions CCp are going to provide to 'enable' this to become a trade hub (and it will be a time before it happens), or what very specific attributes the system will have to make it worth while fighting over (location isn't 'everything').




Why would CCP do that? Don't you remember what Seagul said? They wanted less predictable outcomes. Thera itself defies this idea with limited mechanics however I don't want to lose faith quite yet and call them hypocrits within just a few months of that "less predicable outcomes" statement.
Fu Qjoo
Pangalactic Frontline Supply Agency
#254 - 2014-12-10 11:02:24 UTC
Thera is a perfect intermediary hub for certain goods if you plan ahead,
It will be Jita->RI-JB1 in 5 or even less jumps if you just wait long enough. Consider it as a logistic distribution warehouse.

And yes you can theoretically permacamp it if you have enough dedicated people that are consistently scanning and camping 15 wormholes 24/7. Although there might be some insane players in this universe, I doubt any alliance will be able to do this for a longer time period (and why should they).

Even to bring a freighter in and out is not a big issue atm for a small gang (this might or might not get harder over time).
Fu Qjoo
Pangalactic Frontline Supply Agency
#255 - 2014-12-10 11:21:45 UTC
epicurus ataraxia wrote:
Zappity wrote:
I had a look at Thera on Singularity. It is hard to see how this will turn into another Jita. Sure, the stations will be stocked but the prices will be atrocious. The connections are:

Q063
This wormhole seems to lead into high security space.
Up to medium sized ships can pass through this wormhole.

V898
This wormhole seems to lead into low security space.
Larger ships can pass through this wormhole.

E587
This wormhole seems to lead into null security space.
Very large ships can pass through this wormhole.

Only the null E587 allows freighters through. This means that if you want to properly stock Thera with hulls you have three options:


  1. Fly or jump your freighter to the null entry and come in through there.
  2. Import hulls in a smaller industrial one at a time (for cruisers) or just fly them in manually.
  3. Build them in Thera (which just removes the problem one level for material importation unless you are crazy enough to try and mine in this system).


This is disappointing. I was looking forward to the challenge of stocking this system but I think the risk is too high. I don’t understand why freighters would be excluded from low and highsec connections.

Does CCP think that the risk for freighters would be too low? It will be enormous regardless of where you jump in from. At least open up the lowsec connection please.


I notice that there may also be the strong possibility that there'll be a significant number of wandering or roaming connections.
these will not reopening from Kspace due to the low numbers of people on SISI.
Fozzie also mentioned initially opening holes so that some or all appeared on the test server opening into Thera, Naturally he will not be doing this 24/7 while it is on test, so the numbers are likely to be considerably higher than we are seeing.

Moving forward, we do not know what they have planned for later, why it is expected to become a major trade hub, But there are some Very clear pointers that indicate where this is going........
Interesting times ahead.


Currently all of the wormholes were


  • HS<->Thera: small
  • LS <->Thera medium
  • W-space<->Thera medium
  • 0.0<->Thera very large


Which is good, as otherwise every carebear and his mom would be able to flood the market.
Zappity
New Eden Tank Testing Services
#256 - 2014-12-10 11:24:06 UTC
Yes, I think it will be fine. Certainly won't reach anywhere like Jita scale but it doesn't need to.

Zappity's Adventures for a taste of lowsec and nullsec.
Leannor
State War Academy
Caldari State
#257 - 2014-12-10 13:14:18 UTC  |  Edited by: Leannor
Aaron wrote:
Leannor wrote:


I'm looking forward to seeing what specific conditions CCp are going to provide to 'enable' this to become a trade hub (and it will be a time before it happens), or what very specific attributes the system will have to make it worth while fighting over (location isn't 'everything').

Ore and Minerals have their Hi-sec low value and 0.0 High Value.
Moons have their Lo-Sec low value and 0.0 High Value.
PI has the HIgh Sec low volume and 0.0 HIgh Volume.
Market has HIgh Sec Boom and 0.0 Void.

Would be great if we can turn around the last one ... P



Why has CCP got to provide something to 'enable' Thera to become a trade hub? In my opinion CCP has given us more than enough so that we the players can turn it into a trade hub. CCP has given us a blank canvas and some paint where we can draw whatever virtual reality we the players want.

I have tried projects involving the eve community and populating an NPC region of space called Stain. The projects have ceased and on all of the attempts I felt we only scratched the surface of what NPC 0.0 has to offer. I felt the projects failed because I got involved with people who did not have a keen interest in creating an economy in Stain. Lots of people found it difficult to adapt to the harsh conditions in Stain.

I think if Thera is to become a trade hub then we the players will have to use whatever means available to us to make this happen. Based on the facts we know so far I believe It will require a blue coalition to defend the stations dock and isk grinders if this is achieved the economy will be extended to Thera. I don't think any alliance would be prepared to share Thera with anyone else if they are in a position to lock it down, they are more likely to keep it all for themselves.

I might be able to find the time to create a corp/alliance that will be commissioned by it's blues to defend Thera in order for a trade hub to grow. There would be a fee charged for blue standing, the isk generated will be used to equip well trained pilots to provide escorts and station dock clearance services to the people of Thera. Anyone choosing to finance such a corp will be investing in Thera to make it a safer place to dwell in.


Why to enable? Well, because if they don't, as explained previosuly, there is no reason at all for this system to emerge as a trade hub, which was their expressed desire. Personally, I don't mind either way if it's a trade hub or not (more systems is always a great thing, not matter what's in them), just, at current setup, it will need something else (sandbox wise) to enable it to emerge as a valid trade hub.

Projects based around 'goodness' and self protection, have never succeeded outside of empire. ISS tried ... and failed. Even lo-sec 'vigilante' style protectionsim systems usually fail. Primarily because bad guys (those who want to PVP) are better and more determined at it than those who want to protect people 'from' PVP. And also, generally, the PVPers are generally more ballsy and passionate about doing PVP, and those anit PVP are generally more apathetic - otherwise they'd be the PVPers themselves. THose that are good at PVP and ballssy enough to try and police an area are like gold dust. :)

And if you're saying "but we're just going to get a group of people who are blue to each other and defend it" ... then, my friend, that is pretty much the definition of every Alliance (aka PVP) in EVE.

Yes, a trade hub is purely down to us. But, if we don't have a reason for it to be a worthwhile hub, then as it stands right now, it has little chance of becoming a trade hub, if people can't trade there in some kind of security.

(There is a reason why 5th Ave isn't based in Harlem - get the parallel?). Bring on Thera though. It's a system full of intruge. (And I'm sure the fact that it's twice as big across will have very little impact on much at all to be honest. I'm still very much to be convinced on how that will have any significant meaningful effect on security or trade).

Again, nothing I'm saying here is saying that thera is a bad idea ... don't get me wrong. :)

"Lykouleon wrote:

STOP TOUCHING ICONIC SHIP PARTS"
Abrazzar
Vardaugas Family
#258 - 2014-12-10 14:32:23 UTC
Well, kept my promise. 100,500 units of compressed Veldspar are now on the market in Thera. This should allow some industry to start up.

Sovereignty and Population

New Mining Mechanics
Bed Bugg
Brutor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#259 - 2015-02-24 21:36:58 UTC
Have heard almost nothing about Thera in a while.

How is the market out there?

Anyone with an update?
Herzog Wolfhammer
Sigma Special Tactics Group
#260 - 2015-02-24 23:11:54 UTC
So how are things going in dictor-bubble death camp land? I found a hole to Thera once but I didn't feel like changing over to a rookie ship to feed to the sharks.

Bring back DEEEEP Space!