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So who will be moving to THERA? (Jita without Concord)

First post
Author
Leannor
State War Academy
Caldari State
#201 - 2014-11-19 16:19:46 UTC
Ranger 1 wrote:

Hello leannor, one point that you and the poster above you should remember is that the statement you have quoted was made well before it was revealed that there would be only 4 NPC stations in Thera. Smile

That being said, it will still be next to impossible to for a single organization to effectively lock down the "system"... but unless there is more to be revealed it will be fairly easy to lock down the "stations".

So yes, unfortunately a relatively small force can cause most of the commercial features of Thera to go unused as it stands now... but even a very large entity is unlikely to prevent large amounts of traffic from using Thera's other advantage as a major hub for travel and PVP activity. Much still depends though on just how many high sec statics there are, where those statics go, and how many (and how frequently) wandering wormholes open up there.


Good response.

My thoughts would that if it’s going to be a hub, that means trade (as in make/buy/sell) or occupation (ie extract/indy/pvp), it has to revolve around stations. Unless there is some major revolutionary mechanism that will move EVE activity away from stations – and that would be ‘major’. The use of POS in WH is close, but it still feels small to me, and certainly wouldn’t be the idea in Thera it seems.

If it’s not a Hub as above, then there really is no other kind of Hub. Transport hubs in EVE have another name: Choke Points. And if this is just a transport hub, then it’s going to be a Choke Point. Albeit with a difference, lots of moving entry points, potential for player constructed (private use?) gates etc …

You can’t just ‘name’ a system as a Hub. Hub’s develop naturally out of demand and opportunity. That’s why Yulai is dead now, the demand was there but the opportunity got taken away when it became isolated. Literally overnight.

And, if it is stations based, then, something will need to be done to prevent four perma camps (even if they rotate between a few factions they will still prevent free and open trade – proper traders needs routine, not waste gaps of inaccessibility).

This, regardless, will be interesting to watch though. 

"Lykouleon wrote:

STOP TOUCHING ICONIC SHIP PARTS"

Sol Project
Shitt Outta Luck - GANKING4GOOD
#202 - 2014-11-19 17:27:18 UTC
Give me a reason to.

Ladies of New Eden YC 117 by Indahmawar Fazmarai

Warning: NSFW! Barely legal girls in underwear!

Diana Kim > AND THIS IS WHY THE FEDERATION MUST BE DESTROYED!!

Ranger 1
Ranger Corp
Vae. Victis.
#203 - 2014-11-20 00:55:25 UTC  |  Edited by: Ranger 1
Leannor wrote:
Ranger 1 wrote:

Hello leannor, one point that you and the poster above you should remember is that the statement you have quoted was made well before it was revealed that there would be only 4 NPC stations in Thera. Smile

That being said, it will still be next to impossible to for a single organization to effectively lock down the "system"... but unless there is more to be revealed it will be fairly easy to lock down the "stations".

So yes, unfortunately a relatively small force can cause most of the commercial features of Thera to go unused as it stands now... but even a very large entity is unlikely to prevent large amounts of traffic from using Thera's other advantage as a major hub for travel and PVP activity. Much still depends though on just how many high sec statics there are, where those statics go, and how many (and how frequently) wandering wormholes open up there.


Good response.

My thoughts would that if it’s going to be a hub, that means trade (as in make/buy/sell) or occupation (ie extract/indy/pvp), it has to revolve around stations. Unless there is some major revolutionary mechanism that will move EVE activity away from stations – and that would be ‘major’. The use of POS in WH is close, but it still feels small to me, and certainly wouldn’t be the idea in Thera it seems.

If it’s not a Hub as above, then there really is no other kind of Hub. Transport hubs in EVE have another name: Choke Points. And if this is just a transport hub, then it’s going to be a Choke Point. Albeit with a difference, lots of moving entry points, potential for player constructed (private use?) gates etc …

You can’t just ‘name’ a system as a Hub. Hub’s develop naturally out of demand and opportunity. That’s why Yulai is dead now, the demand was there but the opportunity got taken away when it became isolated. Literally overnight.

And, if it is stations based, then, something will need to be done to prevent four perma camps (even if they rotate between a few factions they will still prevent free and open trade – proper traders needs routine, not waste gaps of inaccessibility).

This, regardless, will be interesting to watch though. 

Indeed it will.

I have left thoughts in other threads as to why we keep fixating on only part of Fozzies statement that it will be like a "Jita without Concord".... IE we focus on the Jita reference, and tend to ignore the rest of the statement. Jita without Concord would actually not be a trade hub any longer, but merely a killzone of epic proportions until another hub evolved.

I won't go into that again, but something else occurred to me as I read your post. We all heard of the tentative plans to evolve POS's into something more than they are now... and we also know that they should be revamped relatively soon. The reason why I bring this up in relation to Thera is that some of the things discussed about the future of POS's might be relevant. That being:

Being able to place them anywhere, not just at moons.
Being able to link multiple POS structures together, in effect form POS cities or outposts.
Being able to trade from them, even have market access.

These are all things Greyscale has tentatively proposed, and we have no idea if this is the direction they will go in or if another direction entirely has been developed. But this might possibly (slim chance I know) explain why there are only 4 NPC stations in Thera.

Just a thought, but I felt it was worth mentioning.

View the latest EVE Online developments and other game related news and gameplay by visiting Ranger 1 Presents: Virtual Realms.

Aaron
Eternal Frontier
#204 - 2014-11-20 01:45:37 UTC
Hmmm, I've had a think about the stations in Thera and I've come to the conclusion that they are red herrings. By that I mean the stations may be a distraction for the people who need to feel like they have achieved something by ensuring no one can dock/undock. Thera will have many wormholes leading into it, this is now fact and It would be easier for players to base themselves out of a K-space station and scan their way into Thera daily to do sites. if the gas/mining is that of a class 6 wormhole then it will be rewarding.

Who in their right mind would buy from a market where they probably couldn't dock anyway and prices would be high due to the high risk involved in getting it there. The better option would be to scan a wormhole to K-space and buy at a reasonable price. The cost of buying a 1mn mwd II will probably be 12 million plus the entire value of whatever ship you're flying.



Fear no one, live life, be free, accept the truth, do not judge others, defend yourself, fight hard till the end, meditate on problems and be prosperous. Things to exist by. -- RAIN Arthie

Ranger 1
Ranger Corp
Vae. Victis.
#205 - 2014-11-20 01:50:25 UTC  |  Edited by: Ranger 1
Argh... Double post.

View the latest EVE Online developments and other game related news and gameplay by visiting Ranger 1 Presents: Virtual Realms.

Ranger 1
Ranger Corp
Vae. Victis.
#206 - 2014-11-20 01:51:13 UTC
Aaron wrote:
Hmmm, I've had a think about the stations in Thera and I've come to the conclusion that they are red herrings. By that I mean the stations may be a distraction for the people who need to feel like they have achieved something by ensuring no one can dock/undock. Thera will have many wormholes leading into it, this is now fact and It would be easier for players to base themselves out of a K-space station and scan their way into Thera daily to do sites. if the gas/mining is that of a class 6 wormhole then it will be rewarding.

Who in their right mind would buy from a market where they probably couldn't dock anyway and prices would be high due to the high risk involved in getting it there. The better option would be to scan a wormhole to K-space and buy at a reasonable price. The cost of buying a 1mn mwd II will probably be 12 million plus the entire value of whatever ship you're flying.




I tend to agree (at least with things as they currently are).

As it stands any new trade hubs are much more likely to spring up where ever the static wormholes reside in k space, then using Thera as a handy route to other locations.

View the latest EVE Online developments and other game related news and gameplay by visiting Ranger 1 Presents: Virtual Realms.

Vyl Vit
#207 - 2014-11-20 08:11:34 UTC
So, has this Thera become the dream come true for those who invent as they go along? OR...we'll see, won't we?

Paradise is like where you are right now, only much, much better.

Elsa Hayes
Science and Trade Institute
Caldari State
#208 - 2014-11-20 08:16:01 UTC  |  Edited by: Elsa Hayes
A trade hub without trade is no trade hub. Without commerce there is no Jita. People go to Jita because its safe aside from wannabe scammers. A trade hub that does not allow traders to safely conduct trade makes no sense. Aside from the local scams. Why should people go there, to get scammed?
Leannor
State War Academy
Caldari State
#209 - 2014-11-20 09:01:45 UTC
Ranger 1 wrote:


Indeed it will.

I have left thoughts in other threads as to why we keep fixating on only part of Fozzies statement that it will be like a "Jita without Concord".... IE we focus on the Jita reference, and tend to ignore the rest of the statement. Jita without Concord would actually not be a trade hub any longer, but merely a killzone of epic proportions until another hub evolved.

I won't go into that again, but something else occurred to me as I read your post. We all heard of the tentative plans to evolve POS's into something more than they are now... and we also know that they should be revamped relatively soon. The reason why I bring this up in relation to Thera is that some of the things discussed about the future of POS's might be relevant. That being:

Being able to place them anywhere, not just at moons.
Being able to link multiple POS structures together, in effect form POS cities or outposts.Being able to trade from them, even have market access.

These are all things Greyscale has tentatively proposed, and we have no idea if this is the direction they will go in or if another direction entirely has been developed. But this might possibly (slim chance I know) explain why there are only 4 NPC stations in Thera.

Just a thought, but I felt it was worth mentioning.



OMG Droolage!! Make me a hamster / ewok city and I'm HAPPY! lol.

but seriosuly, that would be awesome, for me anyway!

"Lykouleon wrote:

STOP TOUCHING ICONIC SHIP PARTS"

Fizy45
Cesere Industries
#210 - 2014-11-20 09:50:08 UTC  |  Edited by: Fizy45
Because that its brand new most of the capsuleers out there will want to have a look in it and some big alliences are aware of it.

So after few lucky entries some group folks will jump in and create a nightmare for many others who tries to enter and even if you can enter the place around the stations and other places will be mess.

So unless you are really experienced or lucky or with a big fleet going there in first days will be a suicide...

Also let me remind you that long warp times will be boring for many players too.

But still curiosity will overcome my instincs and I will definelty go and have a look in there but of course with a ceptor which has a fit for escaping traps not pvp or other stuff.
Beta Maoye
#211 - 2014-11-20 11:25:45 UTC
Thera can't be another Jita. Thera will be a nice place for explorers looking for fortune or pirates looking for ships to blow up, but it is not a place for trade.

Most people wouldn't want to move haulers packed with valuable goods through a place full of thugs and bandits. It will be asking troubles for himself. Major trading hub that most people will trade their stuffs requires a safe and easily accessible environment to exist. Thera is not such a place.
Gully Alex Foyle
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#212 - 2014-11-20 12:41:45 UTC
Today there were 8 wormholes in Thera on Sisi:

2 leading to highsec
3 to lowsec
3 to nullsec

That could all change, obviously.

I wonder how we will find Thera on TQ? Until people start to actively use (open) those static connections, the only way in will be random ones, correct? I wonder how many of those will there be...

Make space glamorous! Is EVE dying or not? Ask the EVE-O Death-o-meter!

Ranger 1
Ranger Corp
Vae. Victis.
#213 - 2014-11-20 15:50:12 UTC  |  Edited by: Ranger 1
Gully Alex Foyle wrote:
Today there were 8 wormholes in Thera on Sisi:

2 leading to highsec
3 to lowsec
3 to nullsec

That could all change, obviously.

I wonder how we will find Thera on TQ? Until people start to actively use (open) those static connections, the only way in will be random ones, correct? I wonder how many of those will there be...

Those 8 were the statics correct? Do you remember what systems they were connected to?
As you so rightly point out this could very likely change, but I'm still curious.

If that number and the exit points don't change, that would suggest that the emphasis would be on providing movement options for Null/Low sec entities to move with/against each other more so than for travel to and from high sec, which isn't exactly what I had expected. In particular only 2 high sec statics ensures heavy camping at those locations.

View the latest EVE Online developments and other game related news and gameplay by visiting Ranger 1 Presents: Virtual Realms.

Serene Repose
#214 - 2014-11-20 16:07:34 UTC
I have a theory about a theory, hypothetically speaking that is.

I'm not sayin'. I'm just SAYIN'!

We must accommodate the idiocracy.

Xen Solarus
Furious Destruction and Salvage
#215 - 2014-11-20 16:29:37 UTC
I'm seriously considering selling my wormhole and moving there. I can see alot of opportunities for those willing to live in such a hive of scum and villainy. I also don't think it's beyond reason for a single entity to control the system, given enough players. With access to the entire galaxy, there would be significant benefits to anyone that manages to establish some sort of player-run order within Thera. Sure, they won't be able to stop anyone from entering the system, but they can certainly ensure that anyone not following their rules gets punished for violations.

Personally, I'm extremely excited. Cool

Post with your main, like a BOSS!

And no, i don't live in highsec.  As if that would make your opinion any less wrong.  

Gully Alex Foyle
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#216 - 2014-11-20 19:26:49 UTC  |  Edited by: Gully Alex Foyle
Ranger 1 wrote:
Gully Alex Foyle wrote:
Today there were 8 wormholes in Thera on Sisi:

2 leading to highsec
3 to lowsec
3 to nullsec

That could all change, obviously.

I wonder how we will find Thera on TQ? Until people start to actively use (open) those static connections, the only way in will be random ones, correct? I wonder how many of those will there be...

Those 8 were the statics correct? Do you remember what systems they were connected to?
As you so rightly point out this could very likely change, but I'm still curious.

If that number and the exit points don't change, that would suggest that the emphasis would be on providing movement options for Null/Low sec entities to move with/against each other more so than for travel to and from high sec, which isn't exactly what I had expected. In particular only 2 high sec statics ensures heavy camping at those locations.
I'm no wormhole expert, but I assume they were the statics.

None of them were K162 - obviously, whats the chance that someone opened a WH LEADING to Thera, within the past 1-2 days, on the test server???

I also didn't try to collapse them to see if they would respawn lol.

I just checked the 3 lowsec ones, they lead to lowsec systems in Heimatar, Metropolis, Kor-Azor.


I too would love dozens of statics, but maybe CCP wants to make them camp-able, with some effort. By the way, if you're equipped to survive in Thera, you should also be capable to take a couple of jumps in lowsec to get there...

Make space glamorous! Is EVE dying or not? Ask the EVE-O Death-o-meter!

Tsixlas
Deep Space Coalition
Fraternity.
#217 - 2014-11-20 21:14:53 UTC
Try to imagine the scenario:

You are a 0.0 player and a new wormhole gives you access to Thera where you can jump and buy stuff. Expensive probably but fast. What would you do?
The Greenmachine Greenmachine
Green's Bicycle Shop
#218 - 2014-11-20 21:35:32 UTC
me. im curious how the effects from the wh will affect the players willingness to accept my great deals...
Ranger 1
Ranger Corp
Vae. Victis.
#219 - 2014-11-20 22:32:37 UTC
Gully Alex Foyle wrote:
Ranger 1 wrote:
Gully Alex Foyle wrote:
Today there were 8 wormholes in Thera on Sisi:

2 leading to highsec
3 to lowsec
3 to nullsec

That could all change, obviously.

I wonder how we will find Thera on TQ? Until people start to actively use (open) those static connections, the only way in will be random ones, correct? I wonder how many of those will there be...

Those 8 were the statics correct? Do you remember what systems they were connected to?
As you so rightly point out this could very likely change, but I'm still curious.

If that number and the exit points don't change, that would suggest that the emphasis would be on providing movement options for Null/Low sec entities to move with/against each other more so than for travel to and from high sec, which isn't exactly what I had expected. In particular only 2 high sec statics ensures heavy camping at those locations.
I'm no wormhole expert, but I assume they were the statics.

None of them were K162 - obviously, whats the chance that someone opened a WH LEADING to Thera, within the past 1-2 days, on the test server???

I also didn't try to collapse them to see if they would respawn lol.

I just checked the 3 lowsec ones, they lead to lowsec systems in Heimatar, Metropolis, Kor-Azor.


I too would love dozens of statics, but maybe CCP wants to make them camp-able, with some effort. By the way, if you're equipped to survive in Thera, you should also be capable to take a couple of jumps in lowsec to get there...

Agreed, and I'm sure many will. I am equally sure that many more won't if a high sec route is at hand. Smile

View the latest EVE Online developments and other game related news and gameplay by visiting Ranger 1 Presents: Virtual Realms.

Nightingale Actault
Borderland Dynamics
#220 - 2014-11-20 23:55:52 UTC
Clarification regarding WH statics. A static HS connection (as an example) will always be a WH leading to HS, but after the mass or time of that WH has expired, a new WH of the same type will appear at a different place in the Thera system. Once scanned down and warped to the corresponding exit k162 will then appear in a different random HS system. Setting up a trade hub in the HS connection system is not feasible as the connection to Thera will only be available from 15 minutes up to the max lifetime of that WH type (normally 16-48 hours).