Wormholes

Everything else u posted i get, but i don't get the "farming static leads to bigger blobs / farmer ploy" argument you are suggesting? I always thought it was wh credo that "you cant rely solely on home hole for isk".

ps. i'm not advocating for nerfing C5 as its none of my business. I agree whatever changes are made should be a fair deal.

I understand where you are coming from.

"Make money quick so we can spend more time hunting the loads of vacant and abandoned systems for ganks."

C5 and C6 space is what it is because of the disparity in income between the lower classes and C5/C6. Also there is a skill "wall" between C4 and C5/C6 PvE. In C5's and C6's caps are a necessity (which is a large ISK investment) as well as very specific T3 skillsets that allow the rapid ISK making in C5 and C6 sites possible. You can't build a cap in a C4 and then move it into a C5 or C6, it's stuck there, you have to build or buy outside and then move it in. If you don't know how to do that safely you are putting several billion on the line with a good chance of losing it. No small risk when you're only making chump change in lower holes.

If you start out small in a lower hole and want to make the jump to the C5/C6 game you're looking at several people investing skills and a significant amount of ISK into something that, quite frankly, will likely just end up getting ganked due to inexperience. The perceived risk is trumping the actual risk involved and is creating a false barrier and psychological disincentive from making that leap from lower to higher wormholes. There is also the meta-game to be considered, if a corp doesn't have 20-30 guys consistently active across US and EU time zones they don't have the manpower to respond to the current C5/6 dictum of "T3 AHAC blobs or GTFO". For guys just starting out, they're gonna lose caps, they're gonna lose T3's, and none of it is cheap. If they spend to much time bearing they'll get singled out and burned down. If all they do is PvP they have to wallet warrior or face bankruptcy and towers go offline and enterprising individuals will pop the SMA's and moonwalk out with the loot.

The goal here is to smooth out the skill curve and make WH PvE income more linearly progressive and consistent across the board so progression from C1-C4 to C5/C6 is more like jumpin a hurdle than base jumping into a chasm filled with medical waste.

so do we need to break the no capitals can move INTO c1-c4 space holes then?

Going more towards the " more caps in the site = more isk coming outta the site for c5/c6 holes, do we need to look at escalating c1-c4 sites similarly?

c1-c4 is supposed to be subcap only, mainly because of the " Only larger ships can fit through this hole " whereas c5/c6 are " very large ships can fit through this hole " meaning, they're capital wormholes.

tldr make c1-c4 sites escalate for more isk with adding extra ships into the site. more subcaps = more money.

tldr leave c5/c6 sites alone because they are doing what it says on the tin, more capitals = more money.

You run into balancing issues across the entire game then if you go that route. In no way shape or form should capitals be moveable into c1 through c4 space. You can build them, sure, but they stay stuck.

Escallations were never meant to be a money making concept, we turned it into it by beating it. This doesn't mean it should be doable everywhere, but this also doesn't mean that it cannot be expanded upon. The question is "should it". It can be viable in c4 and c3 space, but it seems CCP wants to lean more into wormhole day tripping with the shattered holes. The value of lower loot has gone up significantly and will stay up with the new destroyers.

But to be honest, I don't have a clear direction on this. Escallations are ok but we don't want people to believe that the only way to do wormhole sites is by escallations, period. It's a slippery slope.

How about just having an ORCA trigger some sort of escallation. You know... IF you bring that big hunk of useless on the field where it can be tackled, THEN you get an extra lollipop.

slightly OT, but at least in C5/6 space if ur a bear under attack u can just pack your crap in your space suitcase log off in safe and extract later. It is not so easy in C4 space and below, if the invaders have hole control - you're going down the plug hole unless you like SD'ing ships (meh).

This isn't intended as a pro-capitals statement, just an observation.

I believe that you are vastly overstating what a corp of 20 to 30 people can reasonably expect to make from running C4 statics.

Can you pull off 300 mill solo in a marauder? Sure. Can you support a corp of sufficient size to make the jump to C5s? Probably not.

C4s in their current state do nothing to teach you how to do C5 escalations. It's the difference between solo and group play. C4s need those training wheels so to speak.

You are so far off the mark. The best you can get out of a c3 is around 100 ph, with c4 more like 150. We've tried c5 a few times and it's better but we can't escalate. These figures are for say 10 man gang running tengu / and maybe one guy in a marauder.

Also peeps in lower class tend not to have the SP or isk to fly marauders.

If you're going to persist with your pov then back it up with evidence - so far it's all just based on your opinion (and I assume u live in c5 not c4 - having a c4 static is not the same in my book).

But why?

I mean corps struggle to get enough people to want to do home sites, let alone that you now need a subcap fleet to support the caps is beyond stupid.

Average size of a c5 corp is what 60-70 members? theirs a few large groups like SSC, HK Lazers but the rest are pretty small.

Instead of making more people farm wormholes for money, it'll reduce them. Putting people in your static, and telling people who want to do PvP, that they cant jump static because theirs 10 battleships in there farming ISK is ridiculous. Theirs not enough PVP in wormholes to begin with.

Randomizing the spawns is another stupid idea, why randomize wormhole sites when all the other anoms in K-space/Null have fixed spawn locations. Were ratting in dreads, with no local on there own... Why make it harder to do than it already is?

People put 100b's into there jewholes, so they should make billions back, don't restrict them because other people cant afford to do it, so that it must be nerfed.

Incursion runners are making 300-400m an hour, which is the same as a " Traditional " method of having a group doing capital escalations, so why drop the battleships and make the sites harder in a already difficult situation of having no local, having your 30b fleet locked on grid for 5 minutes. when you can get your jew macharial out and go farm incursions in safe sec, with local, and the ability to warp off at any time.

You honestly think your doing something for the better, well your not. People on our internal forums and another forum are seriously worried about you pushing your idea forward, To the point of them just pulling there capitals outta wormholes and running incursions for ISK. Less Capitals, Less ganks, Less PVP.

You do not appear to live in a C4 so all you are dishing is just half-arsed opinion. I've run C4 sites for 2 years and there's no way you are making 150mil out of one site. The maximum I've seen is 130mil ish from a data/relic without hacking cans while the average hovers around 100mil. With that much per site, a corp of 10 "active" members "might" be able to sustain themselves in a C4 with C4/CX static but there's so much stuff to scan, scout & roll, given the amount of connections at any giving time, they will be better off living in a C5 and focusing on single cycling capital escalations.