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[Rhea] Introducing the Bowhead

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Lady Rift
His Majesty's Privateers
#1521 - 2014-11-20 21:32:23 UTC
Yume Ookami wrote:
Lady Rift wrote:


Its in this thread in a dev post when they where trying to determine what tank should go on it. CCP asked what tank would be reasonable to haul 3 t1 bs with t2 fittings, then a dev post or 2 later they upped the tank to what it is now.



the problem is i don't think it is enough tank yet to be worth the risk



thats possible. all comes down to what people believe is there personal ratio of what they would put init
Jenni Concarnadine
SYNDIC Unlimited
#1522 - 2014-11-20 21:36:44 UTC
Probably not a workable answer but ....

Why not make the tank smaller but then put a proportion of the talk(s) of the ship(s) being carried towards the Bowhead tank. That way, if you're carrying t2 BSs, you have abetter chance of hanging on than if, as I will be doing, you're carrying 2 rigged Rifters and my collection of T1 shuttles.
Sgt Ocker
What Corp is it
#1523 - 2014-11-20 22:53:46 UTC
baltec1 wrote:
Sgt Ocker wrote:

Seriously, that is the best you can do?


You said large CFC deployment wont happen again. We deployed the CFC the very same day you made that comment. Big, organised powerblocks are not going away, hence why CCP are rebuilding nullsec with large groups in mind.

.

No you did not deploy the "CFC", many alliances in the CFC did not (and will not) deploy.

It was at best a partial deployment, of those who wanted to go and were close enough to do so.

If your going to make up stories make sure they can't be so easily seen as fantasy..

Wrong again, nerfs to travel (the only change so far) is the 1st nail in the head of large coalitions. Sov changes if done right will be the second. Time vs distance and who holds sov in between will see the end of "workable"coalitions.

Might be time for a rethink, Instead of trying to use false and misleading propaganda

My opinions are mine.

  If you don't like them or disagree with me that's OK.- - - - - - Just don't bother Hating - I don't care

It really is getting harder and harder to justify $23 a month for each sub.
Sgt Ocker
What Corp is it
#1524 - 2014-11-20 23:07:48 UTC
Valterra Craven wrote:
Sgt Ocker wrote:
Valterra Craven wrote:

And you still don't. Just because you give them a ship doesn't mean they can't remove the fittings or change them. Is it so hard to give them a ship and the mods, rigs ammo, etc in the contract?

Simple answer is the obvious. Yes it is much harder to do contracts of ships and mods than it is to do contracts for fitted ships.

Imagine you have 200 Harpies and fits to do contracts for, to make a contract and manually go through and select each item needed to fit the ship out is a long process (around 8 to 10 mins per ship).
Save the fit in your fitting window, select new Harpy and fit from saved fittings, create contract (around 2 mins total).

As for the members changing the fits once they accept the contract - They don't if they want SRP.


Ok that's fine, but the question then becomes when do you rig the ship, before or after you get it to the battle front? (This is what I'm getting at, and IMO the answer is pretty obvious)

Given that you have attrition in battles I'm not convinced that you would need to derig over 5k ships, move them, and then rerig them once you needed to move. It wouldn't make since to have more than a thousand rigged and waiting at a time (and even that number may be way too high) and then once you've won, given the numbers of pilots you have it would be far cheaper just to have them fly the stuff thats already rigged to the next battle, rather then de-rig and re-rig.

It used to all be done by carriers, I've not been on a large deployment since the changes (there hasn't been one).

Many theories have been discussed as to how to get from 1 place to another efficiently.

Using 5k as a guide on the amount of replacement ships. Not all would be assembled and rigged, they get assembled as the need arises. De-rigging a few hundred frigates or cruisers for "safe" travel is really not an issue, the rigs are cheap and supply is plentiful.

Personally I hope Goons do start using Bowheads over JF's as a main form of transporting bulk ships to fights.. It will create more fights as those Bowheads will be prized targets by everyone. Why wait to fight in a certain place when you can win the fight by killing the logistics train.

My opinions are mine.

  If you don't like them or disagree with me that's OK.- - - - - - Just don't bother Hating - I don't care

It really is getting harder and harder to justify $23 a month for each sub.
Euripedies
Hot Droppin Cherry Poppers
#1525 - 2014-11-21 00:26:22 UTC
CCP, please make the Bow have a million hitpoints, yes make it ungankable in hi sec. it just seems to me that the mechanic that allows a gank to take place, must also have a mechanic to allow an anti-gank, in the Bow's case its raw ehp which will let it survive. The bar should be set high. Make the hi sec ganker work for it. Should the Bow leave hi sec then no amount of raw ehp will save it.
Stop making things so easy for gankers and start giving the little people some love.

Yes I know, everyone is now going to blow their horn about using a corp mate to web you or have your alt web you into warp to avoid ganks. I play with a small group who Ive known a long time. we are spread out everywhere, I can see how difficult it could be for someone to be there when you need them. Then there is the alt. Don't have one. Not interested in paying for another account. Come on CCP, not everyone in this game has or wants alts. Just make the ding dang ship have enough ehp to survive a gank attempt in hi sec, I don't want to lose my billions in mauraders cause of a half axed mechanic that deliberately sets you up to be ganked.
MeBiatch
GRR GOONS
#1526 - 2014-11-21 02:48:55 UTC
Lady Rift wrote:
Yume Ookami wrote:
Lady Rift wrote:


Its in this thread in a dev post when they where trying to determine what tank should go on it. CCP asked what tank would be reasonable to haul 3 t1 bs with t2 fittings, then a dev post or 2 later they upped the tank to what it is now.



the problem is i don't think it is enough tank yet to be worth the risk



thats possible. all comes down to what people believe is there personal ratio of what they would put init


as noted i want to run a personal event where i get one and max tank it and have it full of fully fit catalysts and talos's....

make it a gang pinata full of gank ships

There are no stupid Questions... just stupid people... CCP Goliath wrote:

Ugh ti-di pooping makes me sad.
MeBiatch
GRR GOONS
#1527 - 2014-11-21 02:50:40 UTC
Euripedies wrote:
CCP, please make the Bow have a million hitpoints, yes make it ungankable in hi sec. it just seems to me that the mechanic that allows a gank to take place, must also have a mechanic to allow an anti-gank, in the Bow's case its raw ehp which will let it survive. The bar should be set high. Make the hi sec ganker work for it. Should the Bow leave hi sec then no amount of raw ehp will save it.
Stop making things so easy for gankers and start giving the little people some love.

Yes I know, everyone is now going to blow their horn about using a corp mate to web you or have your alt web you into warp to avoid ganks. I play with a small group who Ive known a long time. we are spread out everywhere, I can see how difficult it could be for someone to be there when you need them. Then there is the alt. Don't have one. Not interested in paying for another account. Come on CCP, not everyone in this game has or wants alts. Just make the ding dang ship have enough ehp to survive a gank attempt in hi sec, I don't want to lose my billions in mauraders cause of a half axed mechanic that deliberately sets you up to be ganked.


i am going to use mine for 0.0 jumping my ships around to waypoint stations... then using my dst to get between war zones.

There are no stupid Questions... just stupid people... CCP Goliath wrote:

Ugh ti-di pooping makes me sad.
Euripedies
Hot Droppin Cherry Poppers
#1528 - 2014-11-21 03:33:41 UTC
MeBiatch wrote:
Euripedies wrote:
CCP, please make the Bow have a million hitpoints, yes make it ungankable in hi sec. it just seems to me that the mechanic that allows a gank to take place, must also have a mechanic to allow an anti-gank, in the Bow's case its raw ehp which will let it survive. The bar should be set high. Make the hi sec ganker work for it. Should the Bow leave hi sec then no amount of raw ehp will save it.
Stop making things so easy for gankers and start giving the little people some love.

Yes I know, everyone is now going to blow their horn about using a corp mate to web you or have your alt web you into warp to avoid ganks. I play with a small group who Ive known a long time. we are spread out everywhere, I can see how difficult it could be for someone to be there when you need them. Then there is the alt. Don't have one. Not interested in paying for another account. Come on CCP, not everyone in this game has or wants alts. Just make the ding dang ship have enough ehp to survive a gank attempt in hi sec, I don't want to lose my billions in mauraders cause of a half axed mechanic that deliberately sets you up to be ganked.


i am going to use mine for 0.0 jumping my ships around to waypoint stations... then using my dst to get between war zones.


Jumping a Bow around in null sec with blues everywhere is, from my humble perspective, safer then moving it in hi sec.
Petra Hakaari
Stalking Wolfpack
#1529 - 2014-11-21 04:38:50 UTC  |  Edited by: Petra Hakaari
I dont know if this has been asked before, but, if you'd understand I'm not going over 77 pages so here i drop it:


Is this bowhead going to have the refitting service?

Because tities .
MeBiatch
GRR GOONS
#1530 - 2014-11-21 04:44:38 UTC
Euripedies wrote:
MeBiatch wrote:


i am going to use mine for 0.0 jumping my ships around to waypoint stations... then using my dst to get between war zones.


Jumping a Bow around in null sec with blues everywhere is, from my humble perspective, safer then moving it in hi sec.


most things are safer in null then high sec

There are no stupid Questions... just stupid people... CCP Goliath wrote:

Ugh ti-di pooping makes me sad.
baltec1
Bat Country
Pandemic Horde
#1531 - 2014-11-21 05:24:50 UTC
Barton Breau wrote:
baltec1 wrote:

Barton Breau wrote:


Round and round...

You assume cheap battleships, cheap fitting and that there even are 3 battleships in the first place.


I assume nothing. This is the what CCP have stipulated as the kind of cargo the ship is meant to carry. Their tank should be sufficient to carry 3 T2 fitted T1 battleships, this goal has been met.



Source? Since no, the simple reality that the bowhead will be able to carry 3xbs while having a given tank for the fits you specify does not count as "stipulating", especially considering the tank was already raised.

And for the record, im in no way arguing for the ship to have more ehp, in general anything goes, we have basically a freighter with 1/7 of space just offering a questionable convenience you are unlikely to use when it counts: expensive hulls with expensive rigs.

For example higher warp speed would make sense, since the cargo hauled is just big in volume, not in mass - unpackaged.


In this very thread. CCP asked if the tank was enough for transporting 3 t2 fitted battleships.
baltec1
Bat Country
Pandemic Horde
#1532 - 2014-11-21 05:27:57 UTC
Yume Ookami wrote:
Lady Rift wrote:


Its in this thread in a dev post when they where trying to determine what tank should go on it. CCP asked what tank would be reasonable to haul 3 t1 bs with t2 fittings, then a dev post or 2 later they upped the tank to what it is now.



the problem is i don't think it is enough tank yet to be worth the risk


It gets more tank than the other freighters.
baltec1
Bat Country
Pandemic Horde
#1533 - 2014-11-21 05:31:35 UTC
Sgt Ocker wrote:
baltec1 wrote:
Sgt Ocker wrote:

Seriously, that is the best you can do?


You said large CFC deployment wont happen again. We deployed the CFC the very same day you made that comment. Big, organised powerblocks are not going away, hence why CCP are rebuilding nullsec with large groups in mind.

.

No you did not deploy the "CFC", many alliances in the CFC did not (and will not) deploy.

It was at best a partial deployment, of those who wanted to go and were close enough to do so.

If your going to make up stories make sure they can't be so easily seen as fantasy..

Wrong again, nerfs to travel (the only change so far) is the 1st nail in the head of large coalitions. Sov changes if done right will be the second. Time vs distance and who holds sov in between will see the end of "workable"coalitions.

Might be time for a rethink, Instead of trying to use false and misleading propaganda


I think we have found this wars Iraqi information minister.
Yume Ookami
Cognitive Disonance
#1534 - 2014-11-21 05:43:27 UTC  |  Edited by: Yume Ookami
baltec1 wrote:
Yume Ookami wrote:
Lady Rift wrote:


Its in this thread in a dev post when they where trying to determine what tank should go on it. CCP asked what tank would be reasonable to haul 3 t1 bs with t2 fittings, then a dev post or 2 later they upped the tank to what it is now.



the problem is i don't think it is enough tank yet to be worth the risk


It gets more tank than the other freighters.


just wondering how it gets more tank?
baltec1
Bat Country
Pandemic Horde
#1535 - 2014-11-21 05:46:42 UTC
Yume Ookami wrote:
baltec1 wrote:
Yume Ookami wrote:
Lady Rift wrote:


Its in this thread in a dev post when they where trying to determine what tank should go on it. CCP asked what tank would be reasonable to haul 3 t1 bs with t2 fittings, then a dev post or 2 later they upped the tank to what it is now.



the problem is i don't think it is enough tank yet to be worth the risk


It gets more tank than the other freighters.


just wondering how it gets more tank?


More slots for more tank mods and rigs. T2 fit will net you 85k more ehp than a bulkhead freighter.
Yume Ookami
Cognitive Disonance
#1536 - 2014-11-21 05:51:44 UTC
baltec1 wrote:
Yume Ookami wrote:
baltec1 wrote:
Yume Ookami wrote:
Lady Rift wrote:


Its in this thread in a dev post when they where trying to determine what tank should go on it. CCP asked what tank would be reasonable to haul 3 t1 bs with t2 fittings, then a dev post or 2 later they upped the tank to what it is now.



the problem is i don't think it is enough tank yet to be worth the risk


It gets more tank than the other freighters.


just wondering how it gets more tank?


More slots for more tank mods and rigs. T2 fit will net you 85k more ehp than a bulkhead freighter.


ok with my skills:
charon: 303k ehp
obi: 367k ehp
prov: 347k ehp
fen: 282k ehp

ok it has more ehp with the devs fit at around 420kehp but that is going with a split tank and not a strain hull tank
baltec1
Bat Country
Pandemic Horde
#1537 - 2014-11-21 05:57:08 UTC
Quote:


ok with my skills:
charon: 303k ehp
obi: 367k ehp
prov: 347k ehp
fen: 282k ehp

ok it has more ehp with the devs fit at around 420kehp but that is going with a split tank and not a strain hull tank


It doesnt matter if its split what matters is the total buffer. You can get 700k ehp with the bowhead for just 300 mil isk.
Yume Ookami
Cognitive Disonance
#1538 - 2014-11-21 06:03:13 UTC
baltec1 wrote:
Quote:


ok with my skills:
charon: 303k ehp
obi: 367k ehp
prov: 347k ehp
fen: 282k ehp

ok it has more ehp with the devs fit at around 420kehp but that is going with a split tank and not a strain hull tank


It doesnt matter if its split what matters is the total buffer. You can get 700k ehp with the bowhead for just 300 mil isk.


how?
Meyr
Di-Tron Heavy Industries
OnlyFleets.
#1539 - 2014-11-21 06:17:26 UTC  |  Edited by: Meyr
Although I've been asking for this type of vessel for a very long time, in the currently-proposed configuration, it appears to be a way to deliver nice loot to gankers in hisec, and a way to get around jump-fatigue limitations in nullsec, and still almost completely useless in lowsec. No change there, as usual.

Yet again, you've created a hauler hull that cannot be used to its full capacity with the cheapest possible carge without becoming a profitable gank target - the hallmark of a failure to meet reasonable design considerations that a rationally-thinking person would take into account, i.e., the operating environment.
Meyr
Di-Tron Heavy Industries
OnlyFleets.
#1540 - 2014-11-21 06:22:55 UTC
Yume Ookami wrote:
baltec1 wrote:
Quote:


ok with my skills:
charon: 303k ehp
obi: 367k ehp
prov: 347k ehp
fen: 282k ehp

ok it has more ehp with the devs fit at around 420kehp but that is going with a split tank and not a strain hull tank


It doesnt matter if its split what matters is the total buffer. You can get 700k ehp with the bowhead for just 300 mil isk.


how?


I'm going to guess all-V fleet bonuses and maximum-bonus implants?